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Audi TT

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Comments

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,407
    So you ended up with a TT? Enjoy it! You might want to learn to become a better driver before you chip your car. That's the best way to get more performance out of the car is to become a better driver.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • jgillitzerjgillitzer Posts: 12
    Do I still need all season tires for a car with quattro..That is what people have been telling me. ALso, As far as chipping..I think that if you don't beat the S**** out of your car, increasing the HP by 16 is not going to ruin it.

    Thanks,
    Jeremy
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,407
    w/ all season tires and Quattro.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • jgillitzerjgillitzer Posts: 12
    Do I still need all season tires for a car with quattro..That is what people have been telling me. ALso, As far as chipping..I think that if you don't beat the S**** out of your car, increasing the HP by 16 is not going to ruin it.

    Thanks,
    Jeremy
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 780
    First, the analogy relating automotive performance to weight loss is specious at best. However, let's assume it's a good analogy...

    You lost 5-7 pounds by running and hitting the health club at night. Impressive results! Was your goal to lose the maximum amount of weight or was it to improve strength and endurance? Was your purpose to increase aerobic capacity or to build maximum muscle mass? Did you have all day to work out or did you hold down a job and take care of a family as well? The point of my questions is to determine your priorities and to point out that while some of these goals are complementary, they are also exclusionary. You simply CAN'T be the best long distance runner in the world AND the most powerful weight lifter. There must be some trade-offs. While you could work out several hours each day to achieve your fitness goals, that wouldn't leave much time to spend with your family and probably wouldn't help your career (unless you're a fitness instructor). Car companies make trade-offs too. They have to choose the right combination of horsepower and torque relative to fuel economy, driveability, reliability and economics. The performance envelope of any car is, by definition, a compromise among these competing goals. You only have one person to answer to when it comes to your fitness goals--the car companies have millions of potential buyers. My automotive performance goals simply aren't the same as my 75 year old grandfather's, yet BMW, Porsche and Audi would love to sell both of us a car! We each end up with a car that doesn't maximize our competing desires. That's where aftermarket experts step in. My grandfather can buy softer, cushier, shocks for his car while I can buy a performance chip for mine.

    Getting back to your analogy...did you work out with a personal fitness trainer or on your own? Did you go to the latest high-tech gym, or the old sweatshop at the Y? You must be assuming that car companies have the best engineers and the best facilities if you think that stock, unmodified cars are the best performers. I'm not sure that a group of dedicated, well-financed, computer wizards whose only goal is to satisfy high performance freaks can't outdo Audi's engineers who must answer to the corporate bean counters.

    While I'm skeptical of those companies who claim huge horsepower or fuel econeomy gains from a $5 magnet, I'm even more suspicious of those "snake oil" salesmen who try to sell me $200,000 cars that get spanked by the $50,000 Corvette Z06.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Whoa, big boy, you took my weight loss analogy way too seriously.

    Since I admittedly don't know much about "chipping" and apparantly you do, please go back and re-read my questions and try to give me more direct answers.

    We aren't talking about cars that make trade-offs to please your 75 year old grandfather. I was referring to cars that are sports / performance oriented from the outset. Why would Audi continue to produce a TT that many prospective roadster buyers agree is somewhat underpowered, if a relatively inexpensive aftermarket chip could substanially improve performance? I'm sure Audi could reprogram the engine at the factory for next to nothing if it was that easy. I don't dispute that a full combination of major engine, exhaust, suspension, etc. modifications like those packaged by Ruf, Brabus and even a back yard engineer can significantly improve performance. But I am still skeptical that a "chip" alone can have much effect without long term damage (or perhaps adverse trade offs like big fuel efficiency drops, like you suggest).

    Try again, please. Tell me what exactly a "chip" does, how much performance increase it can really produce by itself, and what are the adverse trade-offs. Thanks.

    P.S. I own and run a development company, have a wife and two young daughters that are my top priority and am trying to get back to my Golden Glove's boxing shape of 1978. Yeah, I know about trade-offs.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 780
    Damn! When do you sleep?

    I'm not the expert on how the chips do their magic and I think most of their claims are absurd. In my case, I drove my car for months before I got it chipped. I think I told you earlier that I drove stock and modified cars back to back before I had my car done. After the modification was completed, there was a noticeable difference in my car. Not quite day and night, but enough of an improvement to get my attention. I haven't really noticed a significant change in driveability, but the fuel economy dropped about 1 mpg or so. The turbo definitely kicks in much harder. It could be that this chip optimizes the performance aspects, but trades off the fuel economy. It's all in the software.

    Speaking of trade-offs and the TT: think about who the TT targets. I think you have said before that the TT is more of a luxury GT than an all-out performance car. It costs about 43K, so it probably caters to an older, affluent clientele. So, it might not be wrong to assume that any compromises would be made in favor of luxury and smoothness versus screaming performance. I think that Audi probably left alot of performance on the drawing board for this reason. That's what makes it a ripe target for aftermarket improvements. A car like the S2000 has a different target audience. Most S2000 drivers are looking for exceptionally strong performance, so Honda probably wrung as much power out of it as it could--nobody builds better high performance engines. Therefore, because the S2000 suffers from fewer compromises, it would be much tougher to improve upon.

    Another factor that makes the TT a better candidate for improvement through chipping is the turbocharger. One of the easiest performance mods on modern cars is to crank up the boost. The TT's boost is set rather conservatively because its target audience probably would be less tolerant of that kick in the back you get from a high boost turbo. A car like the S2000 has no equivalent "easy" modification becaue it doesn't suffer from the same weakness.

    The boost issue calls to mind your point about durability. The stress of a high boost turbo is bound to have a negative effect on longevity. Personally, I'm not concerned about engine life because I don't keep my cars long enough for it to be a factor. As long as it doesn't blow up during the two years I'll be driving it, I don't care. I'm sure that Audi cares because they're responsible for warranty repairs.

    I guess what I'm really trying to say is that auto manufacturers must make compromises to make their cars attractive to the widest possible audience, but they do target specific market segments. My TT suffers from compromises that make it slower than it should be. The chip corrected some of the resulting deficiencies.

    Perhaps the best proof of this concept is the changes Volkswagen made to the Jetta 1.8T between the 2001 and 2002 models. They altered the software to increase turbo boost and gained 30hp!. (180 vs. 150) That's essentially the same thing chip makers offer to the rest of us.

    By the way, I hope I didn't offend you--that wasn't my intent.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 780
    In case you don't have time for my rambling diatribe above, the simple answer is TURBO BOOST. I would be as skeptical as you about claims for non-turbo, high performance cars like your S2000. However, for a turbocharged car like the TT, turning up the boost (via a chip) results in turning up the fun factor. As you suggested, it also increases the likelihood of engine failure.
  • jgillitzerjgillitzer Posts: 12
    If I do chip my 180TT, and drive it sensibly, what are my chances of engine failure? The guy who was going to do it said that I would have to really beat it up for any engine damage. He also said that I do not need a turbo timer. Any comments would be deeply appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Jeremy
  • jgillitzerjgillitzer Posts: 12
    Do I need to change them to all season? If so, how will the all season differ from the performance?

    Thanks,
    Jeremy
  • huma1huma1 Posts: 5
    i feel unloved nobody answered my last post #259. i am trying to decide to buy a 2000 180 quattro. it has 18,700miles on it looks great , has had some minor trouble with rattles but nothing serious, they were asking $28,900 and have come down to $26,700. any imput will be greatly appreciated. please let me know your thoughts, thanks in advance.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    No previous offense was taken and I greatly appreciate your response. I hadn't considered that the fact that the TT was turbocharged added another (significant) factor that could be reprogrammed by chipping.

    We have three TT's residing within two or three blocks in our neighborhood and another interesting factor is that they are all "daily drivers" (i.e. they are all the second car in a husband/wife household). Two of the three couples are recent empty nesters. Our S2000 is a third car and although I drive it almost daily, from a practical standpoint we cannot afford to give up my sedan or my wife's SUV. Perhaps that's also one of the trade offs. With it's added luxury, less "hard edge" performance orientation and front or all wheel drive, the TT is a bit more versitile than the S2000.

    Thanks again for the response and best wishes.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 780
    Huma1: Sorry for ignoring you! Audi TT's are some of the best used car values around. They are well made cars with excellent warranties and FREE maintenance. So, the car has probably been taken care of pretty well. I'd be more concerned with a car like a Porsche Boxster--it's a great car, but costs a lot to maintain.

    Without knowing all the options, it's tough to get a true value on the car. However, assuming that it has the performance package and the xenon lights, Edmunds puts the value at: $21,749 (trade-in); $23,693 (private party); and $25,623 (dealer retail). Considering the fact that it will need tires soon ($1,000+), I 'd say $26,700 is alot to ask.

    Are you buying it from an Audi dealer? If so, is it "Audi Assured"? That program extends the warranty to 60 months and 75,000 miles (it adds about $1,000 to the value).

    You might want to take a look at E-Bay to see what cars sold there for recently. Don't even consider what the Black Book or Kelly Blue Book tell you for values--they are written BY the dealers FOR the dealers.

    Finally, I would take the VIN number to the local Audi dealer and check the car's history. Because of the free maintenance, the history should be fairly complete (no repairs done by the local auto hobby shop). If you're really nice to the sevice rep, he might give you the original owner's name so you can talk to him.

    Good luck!
  • ugly1ugly1 Posts: 52
    You didn't say if you live in an area that has a a true winter, i.e. snow, or not. Performance/summer tires will not work in snow/ice conditions. I live in the Cleveland area and opted to go with winter tires mounted on a second set of wheels. This not only gives me added confidence it also saves the shiny stock wheels. All seasons would of worked but since I was wanting to change the set for winter why not go for the real thing. This part I'm not sure of but it would make sense. I don't believe that the compound of the performance tire will respond as well in colder conditions which would be another reason to change over to an all season tire. The tire rack @ tirerack.com has a great selection of tires and wheels for the TT. Hope I've helped.
  • huma1huma1 Posts: 5
    vinny: thanks for the info. when i looked it up on edmunds i found these values $23,000 trade in, $25-26000 private and $27-28000 dealer. how come they are so different from what you found. this 2000tt is in excellent condition, it has the performance package. i did speak with the old owner who said the car is great no trouble what so ever. the service person told me he really cared for it well. i got the price down to $25,700 and half off the extended warranty from the company that audi uses the most. let me know what you think. many thanks
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 780
    The values I came up with used only the xenon lights and performance package. Perhaps you used all the equipment actually on the car. Also, I used my own zip code and the values are based on the area (theoretically). I guess the market for TT's is softer here. Did the owner tell you what he got for it (in real cash terms)? If you could find that out, you'd know how much the dealer can give it to you for without losing money.

    As for the warranty, I recommend you read all the fine print and check the 'net for reviews of that particular provider. I think Intellichoice provides ratings...Other than that, it sounds like you've covered all the bases. Of course, you could try the last minute "Would you take $25 for it?" ploy as you walk out the door...

    Good luck!
  • huma1huma1 Posts: 5
    one last question is it a bad idea to buy used and have to get an extended warranty. is it wrong to lease a used car? i am such a bad decision maker. any imput is helpful.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 780
    The only correct answer to your questions is: IT DEPENDS.

    There are too many variables to consider. You might want to check out Intellichoice for true costs of ownership and discussions on leasing vs. buying. There must be info on the leasing vs. buying decision here on Edmunds too...
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