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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

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Comments

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Why don't you just give us your objective reviews of these cars instead of flinging insults all over?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    Sure, lots of posters drive these cars and share their opinions. Why don't you share with us your detailed observations of your head-to-head drives of the Accent and Yaris? You have driven both cars, right? Preferably on the same course, on the same day, as I did, to make an apples-to-apples comparison.

    I know I am biased. I am biased towards cars that are comfortable to drive, have a good mix of ride and handling in the kinds of driving most of us do in these cars (and that's not canyon-carving), are high quality, reliable, economical, safe, versatile, and a good value. Every reviewer, including the "pros" at Edmunds.com, C/D, MT, CR etc. is biased. But each reviewer has his/her own biases. I am not biased towards any particular brand. Let the best car win. You obviously have biases that differ from mine and those lead you to consider the Yaris superior to the Accent. That's fine. That's what discussion boards like this are all about. If everyone agreed on everything, they would be very dull.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Here's Edmunds' take:

    Toyota fails to build a better Corolla

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=109860
  • dclurkerdclurker Posts: 57
    I, too, will vouch for Backy. The man is good. He does better reviews than many professional writers.
  • ross14ross14 Posts: 36
    Wow, great work, Backy. I've owned 4 Toyotas that were bulletproof, but every one of them had God-awful seats. If you can, would love to read a review of the new Accent hatchback, vs. the Yaris hatchback. Sat in the 4 door Yaris & became numb looking at black everywhere. And another awful seat. But the Yaris 3 door, designed in Europe(?), is a winner. Stunning interior, & adequate seats. Suspect that Accent hatcback with a rebate, will easily be the "Best Buy". The Aveo also has a longer warranty, than the typical Chevy.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    Unfortuntely my local dealer didn't have any Yaris 3-doors, and the 2007 Accent 3-door hasn't made it to my town yet. I've sat in the Accent 3-door and it feels a lot up front like the sedan--same dash (silver trim in the SE) and same seats (different fabric in the SE I recall). Just real big doors and more cramped in back, and the hatch. Good looking though. I've only seen the Yaris 3-door from the outside, at auto shows--they were always locked. I'd be interested to see how they "sit" since I understand they don't have a seat height adjuster at all. I priced out the Yaris 3-door and with the equipment I want, it was close in price to the 5-door Fit and Versa, and I suspect about the same as the Accent SE (prices not announced yet). So that is tough competition for the Yaris, especially since it has the least cargo capacity with seats up of any of those cars.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    Edmunds's review of the 2007 Toyota Yaris reveals a flaw in the ointment: the cupholders are not placed intelligently. Wow. Good review by Edmunds, though. Even a picture of the offending cupholders. I'll be looking for them on the test drive.

    I'm still interested!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • giantkillergiantkiller Posts: 273
    Another funny guy. Edmunds did a comparison of the Camry Accord and Sonata. Didnt like the review. Told everyone that the comparison dont mean a squat. Now, a not so good review of Yaris. Here he comes posting the link to every small car forum like it was the best thing since slice bread.
    Now let me answer that review. Yes, they failed to build a better Corolla because the better Corolla wont be here until next year and in case they didnt know they're evaluating a Yaris, which is certainly a better Echo in all respect. Case close.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    For $2 grand less than the price of our test car, you could get a similarly equipped Hyundai Accent with a better warranty, an equally spacious interior and decent cupholders.

    Gee, that seems awfully familiar... But it can't be, because I am supposedly totally biased towards Hyundais and not a professional reviewer like the folks at Edmunds.com, so they couldn't possibly have reached the same conclusion on the Yaris that I did. ;)

    Still waiting for your comparo of the Yaris vs. the Accent.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Posts: 273
    Hey Back, I got a lot of things going on for tonight but I'll have it for tommorow. For the meantime eat your hearts out while the Yaris burns the sales chart against the Accent. Here is a preview, The Accent is not bad, I'm really impressed. But, is it superior to the Yaris? I dont think so. One thing you can count about my review is that I wont be subjective. The review wont be about me, it'll be about the cars.
  • ross14ross14 Posts: 36
    In 2001, on same day, test drove the Accord, Camry, & the Altima. Each was different; each was acceptable. Now to buy. Honda dealer wasn't "Dealing". Toyota Millenium was so busy, salesmen couldn't find a table to sell. Took the Camry at a marvelous discount. I'll take the Accent/Yaris/Corolla/Fit/Rio that has a dealer that lowers the price anyway possible. In NYC, we will see who is looking for volume sales after the Easter Auto show.
  • ronald711ronald711 Posts: 44
    Well I went to purchase my Yaris, the package I want is the base Sedan with power package in flint mica with security. they gave me what I wanted for my trade, and was willing to pay MSRP for the vehicle per Edmunds. but then I found out when I asked how they were bringing the vehicle in from another dealership in another region they said driving it, and I said I woudl not honor that, cause they said it would accrue about 400 miles of highway driving. I asked if they would lock in a trade value with me and order one to come to the dealer, they declined. It sounds like my options are only to drive up to the Chicago region, when I know a dealer is getting the packaging the way I want it and start a fresh deal then. take backroads home and break it in that way. Its said that the packaging is limiting the ability to get the car at a better price then with the packaging offered locally. Dealer said they would order it my way with a $500 non refundable deposit but would evaluate my trade once it comes in, my thought they will undercut me at that time and pocket my $500 and they will be happy.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    I look forward to your review, when you get a chance to write it.

    BTW, in your preview, you didn't say anything useful about the cars but did state three opinions--which are subjective. ;)
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Is that it continues a long line of disjointed reviews of vehicles. Edmudns.com practically gushed over the Yaris in December during their First Drive. Apparently, Toyota redesigned the vehicle in between then and now. As for the comparos, yea, I'm a Toyota fan and the Camry won that comparo.... I didnt really take contention with the report, as basically it was the edmunds.com version of a test that Car and Driver did for the Dec 05 (though I thought Car and Driver's scoring to be better explained and more logical). I still view this site as a great repository for info, but the actual vehicle test and corresponding journalism... leave a good deal to be desired.

    ~alpha
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    I look forward to seeing what happens with your Yaris base sedan. The two I am looking at are both 2007 Toyota Yaris base sedans, both in 5-speed form and Power Packages. The question I will have when test driving is this: the one in Barcelona Red paint job includes a "Northwest" dealer prep.package that runs $500. The sticker on that one(I won't bother detailing everything it does and does not have on it)comes to $14,589. BTW-it has the airbag option that includes rear side curtain and front-seat mounted side and side curtain airbags, a nice thing to have installed from the get-go.

    Along comes this one in Nautical Blue, a very dark blue metallic paint job that looks very good to me, it comes in just a few days ago and they have yet to post it up on their website as a Yaris that they have for sale now. Obviously it is, though, because it's on their lot with the sticker on the window. This one has the Power Package, stereo, airbags, etc., like the Barcelona Red one but this blue one doesn't add the NW Protection package of $500. It's sticker price is $14,080. Wow, $500 less. As soon as I find a salesman to talk about the Yarii with I'm gonna ask them what gives there? Will they knock the $500 NW Protection Package price off the red one and sell it to me for the $14,080 the blue one costs? How do I really know that they did anything to the red Yaris sedan that should cost $500 more?

    Oh, I'm gonna have to watch the tracking on the Yaris steering. According to C&D the steering is too sensitive, the new electronic-assist steering overdoes it to the point that the lightweight sedan(the Yaris sedan only weighs 2,377 lbs.)is not able to track on the freeway properly. They say that over 55mph you will want to have two hands constantly on the wheel. I'll want to "feel" that one for myself. Also, evidently the seat doesn't properly support your full thigh. Reminds me of the 2006 Hyundai Sonata problem. One that I wonder if Hyundai has taken care of yet. Or retro-fitted a TSB fix or something.

    Anyhoo-go check out that Honda Fit if it interests you. I don't like it's styling much so I won't pursue it. C&D raves on and on about what a great rig the Fit is.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • tenpin288tenpin288 Posts: 804
    If you can get your hands on the current issue of Autoweek, they have something about the Fit, Versa, and Yaris. Long story short, they are impressed by the Fit, don't have much to say yet on the Versa as it was only a preview, and the 3 drivers that tested the Yaris for a week in the Driver's Log were somewhat less than impressed. In fact they were 2 to 1 that there are better buys for your money than the Yaris. The same info should be on their website next week.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    alpha, what are your driving impressions of the Yaris and its competitors like the Accent? Do you prefer the Yaris?
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    However, I continue to applaud Hyundai's excellent recent offerings, and the Accent is not an exception. I enjoyed your review, backy, because I thought it took the vehicles into account for what they are- small, commuter cars. What I mean by this is that Car and Driver dinged the Accent and Reno, and less so, the Yaris, for body roll and less than sporting handling. Yes, I'm used to this from C/D, but there comes a point in which professionals should disassociate their priorties from the journalism, and take into account more of what the buyers of the group of cars is going to look after. Certainly an idealistic view, and sorry for the rant... getting back.

    I am impressed by the Accent. I am not impressed with Hyundai's decision to decontent next year and make ABS optional, just as I am disappointed that neither ABS or Side Curtains are standard on the Yaris. Most of what I don't like about the Yaris has to do with price- the way I've configured them, the Yaris is about $800 more than a comparably equipped Accent at MSRP. In my opinion, the "S" Yaris is a terrible marketing choice for Toyota, at least at its ridiculous premium over the base Sedan. So many reviews now have stated that the Yaris is overpriced, thats going to quickly become perception. The reality is that a similar base sedan is not disporportionately more expensive than Toyotas have been vs. Hyundais in the past.

    The issue now is that Hyundais of the past left much to be desired, the new ones do not.

    Not having driven the Yaris, on paper if I had the extra cash I'd take it on the following: 1) Stronger Motor (in terms of actual acceleration) 2) Better Manual Trans 4) Better Real World MPG 3) Personal Preference- Styling. I'd say I like the Yaris' instrumentation better, but the placement leaves much to be desired. Toyota is foolhardy to continue placing guages on the center stack when consumers and critics alike (in this country) have voiced discontent.

    The distinct advantages likely in resale and MPG would offset the price difference, but theres no way in hell I would buy the overpriced "S" model.

    Honestly, both the Versa and Fit interest me more. Having obviously not driven both, from what I've read, both are very appealing. Unfortunately, I find the sedan and hatch versions of the Versa so unattractive, I don't know if I could buy them.

    Thanks for asking my opinion, I appreciated yours.

    ~alpha
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    If the Yaris had a more adjustable driver's seat, I could live with the car. I'm not crazy about the dash layout and little things like placement of cupholders and lack of little cubbies for stuff, but I could live with it. I'd take the tan interior to avoid the austerity of the all-black interior. I could stick some bodyside moldings on. Performance-wise, I thought the Yaris was fine for what it is--a small, economical around-town car. Power was adequate for me even with the automatic. Handling was acceptable; the Fit is probably better based on what I've read, but for my needs the Yaris would do just fine. The other main issue is price, as you have noted also. It would be hard for me to justify the extra money over an Accent, given that I don't put that many miles on a car and I'll be keeping it for many years, so the resale value of the Yaris doesn't help me but the Accent's long warranty does.

    The Fit and Versa look more appealing to me right now than anything else in this class, although I was disappointed by the recent downgrading of the Versa's estimated fuel economy. I'll drive both when I can. But the urgency is not there for me anymore, since I decided last Saturday to get my DW a used minivan and take her '04 Elantra GT until it is time to turn it over to my middle child in 2.5-3 years. So I'll have a lot of time to study the small-car market, get all the owner experiences and crash test results, and see what happens with the hybrid options (Accent, Rio, maybe the Fit) before I have to plunk down my money for one. Meanwhile I will enjoy my Rally Red Elantra GT. :D
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    purchase decisions and just casually watch for reviews and test drive, etc., isn't it?

    I remain interested in the Yaris base sedan and now know which things to look out for in the test drive. The Rio twins would no doubt get a test drive from me, too.

    The Fit looks choppy and weak in the looks department to me. No way I'd buy one. The Versa earned 2nd place among the 7 econo-cars in the C&D test, but it has that goofy Nissan look to it that doesn't work for me. Nissan and I don't see eye-to-eye...their little Micra is an exception, but they are afraid nobody will buy it in America because it's too small. They're probably right.

    Kia and Toyota remain my two front-runners until a nice $8,000 Chinese subcompact can push them out of the way. :D

    Just kidding. Sort of.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    "Kia and Toyota remain my two front-runners until a nice $8,000 Chinese subcompact can push them out of the way. "

    I've read that the Geely's safety is no where NEAR US-spec, so that might be some time.

    ~alpha
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    fortunately, like I said, I'm in no rush.

    It's gonna be fun to see who's gonna be brave with their cash first regarding Chinese car purchases.

    I am not against trying a new product, heck, I bought a Kia Sephia in 1999 when a lot of people would just as soon jump off a tall building with an extra-long bungee cord tied to their ankles than buy a Kia, hence my interest in the new Chinese attempts...I...I mean Chinese vehicles on their way to America.

    Their sedans will pert-near all fit in this thread's purchase cost confines, BTW, huh?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • randydriverrandydriver Posts: 262
    what cars are you talking about from china?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    other day from Geely Motors in China that they are going to branch out and not just make cars with GM, VW, etc. in joint ventures but make their own vehicle product themselves and ship them to the U.S. for sale. Also S.A.I.C.has made similar pronouncements.

    Probably the most prominent one and the one that I first heard about was the Visionary Vehicles Ltd.group from Malcolm Bricklin. Read about them here:

    http://www.vvcars.com/main.html

    The latest announcement was that Geely Motors of China was going to beat Bricklin's Visionary Vehicles Ltd.group (Chery Chinese-made automobiles)to America by a good 6-12 months or so. Stay tuned on that one.

    If you have a fortune laying around and want to start up your own Chery dealership through Bricklin you certainly can. Read about the stipulations at the link I provided there.

    BTW-I don't think that Bricklin's Chery's can be called Chery's here in the States. Chevy raised hell about it and sued so Bricklin agreed to use another name. Stay tuned and you'll be seeing the stories of Chinese cars plastered all over the news here, it's really not that long before they arrive here.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    all I hear about the Yaris here on the boards is people looking for 3-doors, and all the dealers are getting is sedans, mostly because that is 80% of what Toyota is building.

    It's also funny how people, especially reviewers, are getting hung up on the center-mount IP. I appreciate they are not everyone's cup of tea, but it might be going a little far to say that "consumers and critics alike" are barking about them. Scions have been selling briskly to consumers that clearly didn't think the gauges were such a problem that they didn't want the car. I suspect the Yaris will sell decently as well, regardless of the gauge locations.

    Now, will it outsell Aveo and Accent? Nope, I think not. If you are a safety gear fan, as so many are these days, both of those and the Fit also will prove cheaper to buy (and easier to find) the way you want them than the Yaris. And I agree, the Yaris S is such a waste of time - it is the only model that is not a good value proposition - too high-priced relative to other cars in the market, including the Corolla. All it does is add the convenience package from the base model, plus the cosmetic skirts and other junk. For about $1500 extra, I will skip that, thank you very much.

    I do love the looks of the 3-door, though. It may yet tempt me to a purchase. But not the sedan.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • randydriverrandydriver Posts: 262
    I love the 3-door and would think about getting one. I do not care for the sedan though it looks .....old. I was at the Dallas Auto Show last week and there were a lot of people around the 3-door Yaris and over at the Honda Fit.....I felt bad for the Honda guy, he was actually being mobbed by people that wanted to know more about the car. That's what they get for have a car there and no information about it. The 3-door Accent was there up on a pedistal and people standing around it complained they could not see it because it was 3 feet off the ground...stupid..Didn't see Nissans car there thought...to bad.
    Does anyone know if Ford or Chrysler is ever going to have a small car.......
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    Ford offers lots of small cars. Just not here (except for the Focus). Chrysler's idea of a small car is the Caliber. 'Nuff said there.
  • ross14ross14 Posts: 36
    A surprise: Deep down, where few people walk, was the lonely Suzuki exhibit. From a distance, I thought it was a "Swift", but it was too muscular. Its a 2007 SX4. Its the "mini" SUV. Aimed at under 30's segment, it came in "Surf" & "Bike" styles. Very unusual, split "A" pillar may be dangerous for obscuring vision. Very dramatically styled. Easily the most interesting car, if priced near $15,000. VERSA looks like it should start at $20,000. Although locked, the seats looked like living room cushions. "YARIS" sedan, which I thought was ugly, seemed to be perfect style for average car buyer. "Tomblike" describes the interiors of the Yaris sedan, & the Honda Fit. There is no fun in there black interiors. The Fit & Yaris felt vaultlike; solid & wellmade. Only 3 small cars had comfortable seats: Accent, Rio, Suzuki Forenza (NO Reno). The Fit was tolerable. The worst seats belonged to the Saturn Ion. The Suzuki Aerio had such limited rear movement as to exclude any man over 5'10'.Most practical: Fit. Most desirable(STYLE): Versa. Best Buy: Accent GLS hatchback, if a rebate appears. Big car: Chrysler 300c extended wheel base is a winner.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    Did you mean the Accent GS hatchback or SE hatchback (no GLS has been announced)?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    also comes in a beige interior. In fact the Barcelona Red 5-speed Base Yaris Sedan at my local dealer selling for $14,589 has the beige interior. I like it from the outside but am concerned my dogs might slowly taint it's color scruffy-dirty after a year or so. Oh well, there's always elbow grease and a bucket-a-suds and a scrub brush, huh? Not a big enough deterrent from purchasing it.

    Neither the Barcelona Red or Nautical Blue base 5-speed Yaris sedan selling for $14,589 are selling at my local dealer. All the better for me while I lollygag around wondering when to pounce. I always threaten to go pounce on my next stretch of days off-one day I may just go do it if they remain there looking like little pups in a petstore window like that. I do prefer the red one-Phil Meador Jeep-Subaru-Toyota keeps the red one under the overhang of their showroom building, still outdoors but covered from the elements. I would agree the sedan's not for everybody but I like it and think it would be a solid rig for years and years and years.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

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