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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

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Comments

  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I agree with Pat, thanks! Not much attention gets paid to the ultra low end cars like the Rio. I felt the same way after test driving an Accent for kicks last year. At $12K on the sticker (not sure about todays expected selling price after rebates and haggling), with head and chest side airbags, all power accessories and auto trans, not bad at all. backy- what are your opinions re: Rio vs. Accent. vs. Aveo?

    ~alpha
  • probably be the new Kia Spectra that debuted at the Detroit North American International Auto Show. The EX models will offer side-curtain airbags and 4-wheel disc brakes. I've seen some pics and it looks pretty nice from what I've seen. No prices out yet. The I4 engine will produce 140hp and will be CVVT(Continuously Variable Valve Timing)which will save on gas consumption and also reduce emission pollutants as well. I'm guessing Kia will MSRP it at around $13,500 give or take a nosehair or two.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    I think the Aveo looks like the top of this group just based on content and room, but I haven't driven one yet. Its short warranty is going to hurt it against the Rio and Accent, though. I think the Rio is the value champ because you can get stripped ones for $6-7K. The Accent is kind of a tough one, because of how Hyundai heavily discounts the Elantra. I have trouble seeing the value proposition of the Accent. But the Accent is due for a redesign at the end of this year, if Hyundai keeps to its schedule, so that should provide more competition for the Aveo.
  • somebody has already bought an Aveo and posted their experience on the Chevrolet Aveo thread. They liked it much better than the Kia Rio they tested. The Aveo seems more of a solid ride to them. I'm going to be reading as many of the reports on Aveo as I can to see how it holds up reliability-wise. Content-wise for price it looks pretty good and I also think it's got a nice body style to it(I especially like the hatchback model).
       

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    I did see the drive report on the Aveo. But as you may have noticed by the test drive reports I've posted here over the past couple of years, I like to drive a car myself before I cement my opinion on it. For example, I took CR's low opinion of the Spectra with a grain of salt before I drove it myself and found out that I agreed with CR. My local dealer said he won't have an Aveo for another month or so.
  • how the car really drives? I will look forward to your report on Aveo after you test drive one.
       backy-what did'ya say to majorthomecho to chase him outta here? He was such a major contributor to this thread for what seemed like years.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    He's disappeared from Town Hall as far as I know. Maybe he's found other pursuits other than talking about cars. Me, I am sick or something as it is late night in Vegas and I am sitting here typing on my computer. (Actually too tired to do anything else.) Now is that a car nut or what?

    Looking forward to driving the Aveo, as well as the all-new Spectra when it arrives. I've driven everything else in the low-end class. But I'll have work to do with the new arrivals due soon like the Scions (in my area, this summer), Spectra, and Cobalt (if in fact it starts under $15k). The Accent is due for a redesign this fall but I haven't heard a word about it--has anyone else?
  • Chevy Cobalt starts out at just over this thread's limit, if it's indeed still $15,000. I read something on the Cobalt starting around $16,995. Check me on that, though.
         Yeah, we car nuts are a group defined by an intense yearning to learn more about these silly objects on four wheels that zip us rather quickly all over the place. Sort of a learned art not shared by everybody--that's for sure.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Has anyone seen the side impact rating for the 4 door 03 Accent? I was quite impressed to learn it received 5 stars for the front seat and 4 for the rear from NHTSA. This is the ONLY subcompact to achieve this high of a rating, and even beats out substantially larger cars. The side airbags are apparently well designed because it upped the rating from 3 to 5 stars after the bags were added. The newer tests also take into account head injury measures.
  • Accent, there. Especially when you take into consideration the small size of Accent.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • grandtotalgrandtotal Posts: 1,207
    You should not take into account the small size of the Accent when considering impact test results. This is because the testers have already taken the vehicle's size into account. The Accent's results should be viewed against other cars in it's size category only. A passenger in an Accent sized car with a 5* safety rating may sustain more damage than if they were a passenger in a 5* rated large car.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    That isn't true of the side impact test. They use a standard sized ramming platform that approximates a 3015 lb vehicle hitting the side of the car at 38.5 mph. Here is a quote taken directly from NHTSA's website,

    "Side crash test results can be compared across all classes because all vehicles are hit with the same barrier and at the same force."

    In other words, you are theoretically safer in a side impact in an 03 Accent then you are in an 03 Camry, Century, Concorde, Passat, etc. It even did better then Hyundai's much larger Sonata and Xg350. Shocked? I was! Hyundai did a good job designing the safety of the Accent.
  • designing safety into the Accent is one big 'ole understatement then! If what you said just above this post is true(can anyone argue intelligently against it?) about Accent safety then Hyundai engineers deserve a round of applause. Probably some more Accent sales up ahead as well!

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I'm sure that many of you who are familiar with my posts from other boards know where I'm going.

    While the Accent does quite well for the driver, and indeed Hyundai should be commended for offering side airbags with Head Protection as standard, keep in mind that the NHTSA does NOT take into account the HIC recorded on the dummy in assigning star ratings for the side impact test.

    What this means:
    The driver dummy of the Accent passes with flying colors (recording a very low HIC of 180, no doubt due to the head-protecting airbag). However, the measure of HIC 749 for the rear passenger indicates the possibility of injury that is not indicated in the 4 star rating.

    Moral: Always look deeper into NHSTA side impact star rating, as HIC is not included in this mesaure. As a rule, where HICs creep toward 1000, the likelihood of severe or fatal injury increases significantly.

    Consider this- back in the early 80s, shortly after NHTSA began its frontal impact program, but before the "star" ratings, 1000 was the threshold for whether a vehicle "passed" or "failed" for head injury.

    (If you want an example of a vehicle with a good side impact score, but alarming HIC, check out the non-side curtained Accord 2 door, which scores 5 stars for rear passenger, but has an HIC in the 920s. Conversely, if you look at the 2003 non-curtained Camry 4 door, which received 3 stars for driver and 5 for rear passenger... both had HICs in the low 400s).

    ~alpha
  • I just needed to see some more info.on the testing process overall. Sort of like watching 20/20 on car crash testing. Those shows can devote an hour to the testing processes and not have NEAR enough time to cover all of the angles on crash testing. This is indeed an area that one can learn more about IF it's important to them enough. I think that sometimes the thought on it is, "Well, I don't have time to think about car crash test results, after all, if it's my time to go then it's just my time to go." I'm totally serious when I say that! Those aren't my thoughts on that subject but haven't you all heard people say comments like that? Death and dying and crashing and rehabilitating are not areas that people really feel comfortable thinking about and discussing. The sad fact about it is that every day there are 17,000 car crashes in the U.S. and every year there are 6,205,000 car crashes in the U.S. Keep posting NHSTA crash test information even if it hurts...whoops, sorry about that!

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Are you absolutely certain they don't take HIC injuries into account for the side impact test? If you look, there was 2 tests for the 03 Accent, one for those before the side airbag was released and one after. The early 03 Accent was rated 2 stars for the rear seat, and even mentioned a high likelihood of head injury. The rear seat is now rated 4 stars (with no mention of head injury risks) and the main difference between the two tests was a reduction in the HIC measure from 1260 to 749. There was also a reduction in the TTI from 93 to 70. I'd be surprised if the HIC didn't make a difference in the star rating, especially if the Accord 2 door doesn't mention high likelihood of head injury like they did on the Accent even though the Accord had a higher HIC. Hmm.....Anyway, the fact remains the little Accent appears to be tough and protects its occupants in a side impact better then many larger cars.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Yes, I am absolutely certain. I am also aware that of the first Accent crash test. The NHTSA will append an asterisk (*) to models whose HIC exceeds 1000 in the side impact test, which is precisely what happened with the first Accent test. (As I stated earlier, this is a common threshold for severe head trauma.) It merited the low 2 star rating based on its high TTI.

    With the Accord 2 Door's HIC in the 900s, it is still below 1000, so there is no asterisk appended.

    Just to drive my point home, there are a few SUVs that have 4 star ratings but the asterisk indicating that theres a high likelihood of head injury. Clearly, then, the star rating does not reflect the HIC.

    One example (and I swear I'm not picking on Honda, its just the first one that I saw on the NHTSA webpage..) is the Honda Element.

    http://www.nhtsa.org/NCAP/Cars/2385.html

    I think it is VERY deceptive of NHTSA to misinform consumers in this way. How can a vehicle merit a high 4 or 5 star rating for side impact protection if it inflicts near fatal levels of injury to the head? HIC should be reflected in the star rating, not just in a note. Even so, as it stands, HIC is only reflected in a note when it surpasses 1000. What about cars that test with 999 HIC? They just get the star rating, without any notation, and consumers (who dont look a little further) are none the wiser, despite the fact that HIC is awfully high.

    ~alpha

    PS- I certainly agree, Hyundai has set a good precedent by adding side iflatable protection standard on every model, including the 11K Accent.
  • offer side curtain airbags as standard equipment as well as 4-wheel disc brakes. I wonder how much Hyundai influenced their desision on those?

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • Nice to see you guys (at least one) missed me. Don't have a lot of time as I am at work and want to get on home. Still have the Major (in fact Major has a sibling, Silver). Silver is a silver 2003 Echo with an automatic, but otherwise equipped like the Major.

    As to where I have been, my computer at home is still the same old dinosaur and I just got tired of fighting trying to get on line. I finally decided to try to get to Edmunds through the work computer and the stupid site would not recognize me at first.

    Our local auto show is a week and a few days away and I am going again. The Aveo is definitely on my list of cars to take a look at. I definitely have some opinions on the car and I won't be afraid to share them later.

    I am thinking about trading the Major in, but the leading candidate is a car that would not fit in this category. That being the Dodge SRT-4.

    Well, got to scoot. See you later. Sorry for the rambling post.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Hello, Major, good to hear from you again. When you go to the auto show, be sure to check out some of the other new low-end cars and give us your take on them, e.g. Mazda3s (might be an alternative to the Neon), '05 Spectra, Forenza etc. My town's auto show isn't until March 13--a long wait for Car Heaven.
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