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Low End Sedans (under $16k)



  • protegextwoprotegextwo Posts: 1,265
    Yea, your right. I don't know if I would have time to stop by the dealer, however I'll wait for the brochure AND see one in person, on the road before passing judgment.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,622
    Larry, thanks for the link--very handy.

    Just saw a pic in the December Car and Driver (p. 30) of the 2003 Tiburon, due this spring. The caption claims that there is a resemblence to the Ferrari 456. Well, whether it looks like a Supra or a Ferrari, it looks a lot more mainstream than the current model. The question is will Hyundai keep the price below $15,000, at least for the base 4-banger.

    Speaking of expensive European cars, the November C&D had a review of the new BMW 745i. If you see it, take a good look at the hood creases, but particularly the bustle-butt trunk. Remind you of anything?
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Posts: 1,265
    Speaking of expensive European cars, the November C&D had a review of the new BMW 745i. If you see it, take a good look at the hood creases, but particularly the bustle-butt trunk. Remind you of anything?

    I know, I know, the BMW 745i reminds me of a KIA Rio! Ok, just kidding!


  • fangio2fangio2 Posts: 214
    BMWish -overall the car still looks good.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Posts: 1,265
    CONSUMER REPORTS 2002 BUYING GUIDE: Small Car Rankings-

    1.)Ford Focus*
    2.)Volkswagen Golf
    3.)Honda Civic
    4.)Toyoya Prius
    5.)Toyota Echo
    6.)Mazda Protege
    7.Hyundai Elantra*
    8.)Volkswagen Jetta

    * Not Recommended because of below average reliability.
  • How can Focus be ranked #1--but not recommended due to bad reliability?
  • If your point was that Elantras are no good--it only placed one spot below your Protege. Besides, eighth is not so bad considering how many hundreds--dozens anyway--of small cars are on the road.
  • If we ignore any vehicle that is not recommended and further, we throw out any vehicle that is over our $15,000 cap, the Echo is the first place car on the list.

    I say this because the Civic that they tested had an MSRP of $18,150 while the Echo they tested had an MSRP of $14,460.
  • Clay, you're right. You don't get it. ; )

    The rankings come from how Consumer Reports feels about the cars. The recommended or not recommended comes from when they factor in the survey on reliability done among actual owners.

    Thus, the Focus is rated high by the editors of Consumer Reports, but the reliability has been worse than average overall so it is not recommended.
  • shriqueshrique Posts: 338
    The rankings listed above are strictly on drivability. Everyone really likes the focus for what it is but Ford can't quite pull off the reliability. Hopefully as soon as Mazda starts designing their small engines it will turn around.

    I would really like to be able to buy an American car. They just can't get the reliability down. Saturn is about as close as I would go relibility wise but their fit and finish isn't that good.
  • My whole point is--even if the editors of CR LOVED the Focus, how can they rate it #1 when their own research shows it is not #1? You would think an organization like CR would penalize the Focus on its bad reliability record.
  • shriqueshrique Posts: 338
    The car itself drive wonderfully from what I understand, it's just that down the road it will go bad only. Plus the list isn't which car is best it's which ones they liked to drive. There is another chart that runs through the reliability.

    It's funny on the reliability part the Chevrolet Prizm is higher in reliability that the Toyota Corolla. Figure that out.

    Ah statistics....
  • They did penalize it. They don't recommend it.

    Think of it this way. The rankings do not take reliability into consideration.

    When they decide whether or not to recommend a car, then reliability does come into play.

    Understand now?
  • Where do you see the Prizm is rated higher in terms of reliability than the Corolla in Consumer Reports?

    I have the 2002 Buying Guide in front of me and I see no such thing.

    In fact, I see the opposite. For whatever reason, the Corolla scores higher (i.e., has less problems) in more of the individual trouble spots.

    Both the Prizm and the Corolla get the red check mark for overall reliability and they receive the top mark for predicted reliability.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,622
    In Kiplinger's December 2001 edition, they rate the 2002 cars. In the under-$16,000 category, the Focus ZX3 is their top pick, followed by the Civic. Note that the ZX3 does fall into the under-$15,000 category. They do consider safety, 20% of their overall rating, but interestingly they use actual accident statistics vs. the crash tests to rank cars on safety.
  • Backy, is that issue still on the newsstands?
  • lleroilleroi Posts: 112
    cars do on the safety using the actual statistics?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,622
    I saw the mag on the newsstand at the Minneapolis airport this morning. I didn't buy it (c'mon, that costs money!) but saw the cover story on 2002 cars so had to take a peek. I scanned the article and zeroed in on the discussion of the under-$16k cars. As for how they can rate safety using actual stats even on Korean cars, there is an organization (darned if I can't remember the name now, maybe it will come to me later or someone else knows what it is) that tracks actual loss data by insurance companies. That would apply to all cars in the U.S., regardless of where they're made. They have a couple years of data now on the Focus and Echo, three years on the Protege, a full year on the Civic and Elantra, etc. As I said, this was not an exhaustive analysis of the article, just saw the section on their top picks and a discussion of how they rated the cars, including the safety factor, which I thought was notable since it used real-world loss statistics vs. lab tests. Maybe if I have some extra bucks and can find it again I'll pick it up next time I see it.
  • lleroilleroi Posts: 112
    just go to kiplinger.
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