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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

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  • boredbored Posts: 300
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    I agree too!

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • to play with the big Korean boys anymore? Yee-haaw!!! I was right all along!!!! The Japanese makers are LOSING IT BIG TIME!!! Hyundai-Kia-Kia-Hyundai-Kia-Kia-Hyundai-Hyundai-Kia-Kia-Hyundai-Kia-Hyundai-Kia!!!!!!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Read an article on Scion this week in USA Today. It quoted a source at Toyota saying that the Scion models would start at around $16,000 without options, which they figure would add about $3,000 to a typical purchase. If this is true, it appears that Scion is not aimed so much at the low-end market but at the youth market, meaning it will not be a direct competitor for the Honda Fit/Jazz but more for vehicles like the Element. Another this this source said is that Scion is an experiment for Toyota, and they are using it to learn about selling to buyers outside their typical (older) market. Thus they will not mind if sales are that high. Hmmm... seems to me like Toyota is making a huge investment (new dealers etc.) for an "experiment". Oh well, I won't be able to buy one for about 18 months anyway.
  • I thought I read "independent dealer" before, too. I thought Toyota was going to use their own dealer system with a special corner of the dealer for the Scion line. Originally it seemed like Toyota was going to be producing $8,000 vehicles...guess not. I don't think there is anyway Scion will be able to charge $3,000 in accessories and upgrades unless they are all those aftermarket things since their models are fairly well loaded anyway. I know I wouldn't want all that crap on my car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I'd love to see a Toyota priced that low, but I doubt whether Toyota, or any Japanese automaker, can afford to build a quality car at that price. Even a stripped 2-door ECHO is $10k, and the pictures I've seen of the Scions are definitely upscale compared to the ECHO. Looks like those who want a new car in the U.S. for $8k are still going to be limited to the Accent, Rio, and Spectra (under $8k now, with the Kia loyalty rebate).
  • The xB and xA in Japan really don't cost all that much but I'm not sure if they have all those features standard that are on the Scions. I'm not sure what the tariff is either. Toyota needs to find a niche in the low end market and work it. They can't really compete with Korean price but might be able to beat them in offering a different kind of low end product, whatever that may be.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    They need to bring the Euro Corolla hatchback over here. It seems like it would be a nice fit for Scion. It has the Celica GTS's 1.8L. I don't care what they call it here, Scion, whatever, just bring it over.

    Check it out:

    http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/frame_start.jsp?id=SPLASH_range
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    they could bring over the Yaris hatchback, or ECHO, or whatever they'd call it. I've seen them close-up, and that is one cute little bugger.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    about Yaris, but it sure is time for there to be a corolla hatchback again...I think I read somewhere that in Europe the hatchback model is the best-selling corolla.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    In Europe, due to space restraints, taxes, etc....the hatchback design is usually favored over the sedan. Reason why the Golf sells so well in Europe compared to the Bora (Jetta).
  • It's time for more 3 and 5 door models here.

    The mazda hatch and wagon look promising, but the smaller car market (focus,accent) need more manufacturers to compete.

    And yes, I understand this is less profitable for them, but it can be the lure to get people into their brand.

    Having seen some of the future car pics on this and other sites, I believe they are indeed coming.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    I could see that Euro sport model Corolla hatch 3 door and 5 door being more popular with Scion's target audience than the goofy stuff they have planned now.
  • shriqueshrique Posts: 338
    Now your just being silly.
  • crew and they were all seconding each others emotions and basically ganging up on me so I just decided to throw some gasoline on the Japanese vs. Korean wars a tad, that's all. Just kidding-just imagine you just saw that monkey on the Kia commercial of a week or two ago and then post carry on with whatever else it was that you were thinking, K?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I saw an airport gate security car parked outside a gate at the Orlando airport today. It was a '03 Rio. Glad to see the government is saving some bucks for this purpose, since all they need is something to get them from one gate to another.

    Also saw in USA Today today that Suzuki dealers have confirmed that they will be getting a Daewoo next year to sell as a Suzuki. Didn't mention which model, or have a picture--wouldn't want to have too much news in that paper after all.
  • GM Daewoo Auto & Tech.Co. officials have announced that they will export GM DA&TCO vehicles to America to be sold under their Suzuki branch. Hints have been that Suzuki will sell the Daewoo Kalos(pronounced Car-los)subcompact, the Lanos replacement. They will also sell the Lacetti sedan, which is the Nubira replacement. Take a peek at Lacetti if you wish here:
    http://home.att.net/~brown20850188032/lacetti.html
    Also read yesterday at Edmunds' 'Yet Another Daewoo Topic' site that Pontiac will sell the Leganza/Magnus here in the States. Whew! Better go hunting for more information about the Pontiac Magnus. That one seems odd but, if you think about it, it will immediately add some respectability to the Pontiac portion of GM. Tee-hee! =:)

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • Here's a European review of the Daewoo Kalos. Note the engine size: 1.4L producing 83bhp. Humm...might be a leeettttlllle small for our hot-doggin' roads here. Then again, if Germans buy Kalos they would run them on the Autobahn, right?
    http://www.channel4.com/apps26/4car/jsp/main.jsp?Ink=231_2&re- - - - viewid=550

    8 valve engine, 0-60 in 13.2 sec., 37.7mpg.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    This is interesting news. However, I don't quite see where the Lacetti would fit into Suzuki's lineup. The Lacetti is too close in size and price to the Aerio sedan, though more attractive and contemporarily styled. Anyone here know how they are going to market these similar size cars? I think a better fit for Suzuki would be the Magnus, since Suzuki lacks an upscale sedan for economy car buyers to grow into.
  • Camry-if but a little smaller, but it looks larger than the Aerio sedan. We may just have to wait until we can find tech.specs on Lacetti, to date I haven't been able to locate them. It would fit in the Suzuki lineup in the model just above Aerio sedan size then. Magnus is larger than Aerio and Lacetti both. The Kalos(pronounced Car-los)is actually closer to Aerio size but a tad shorter and a spot is definitely there for this little subcompact in the Suzuki lineup.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I just returned from a week in Shanghai, PRC. If you have not been there or seen pictures, it is one impressive city, especially in the newer downtown area that looks like a showplace for modern skyscraper architecture. Of course I scoped out the low-end car scene, expecting to see a wide variety of small cars not usually found in the U.S. To my surprise, what I saw was... almost no low-end cars! Now, I didn't see the whole city, but did spend a lot of time on the streets and highways of Shanghai. The most popular car there seems to be the VW Santana, which looks like the Quantum of the late 80's. Almost every taxi is a Santana, and there are lots of private Santanas also. There were also a lot of Passats. The second most popular car there seemed to be (are you ready): Buick Century! I was really surprised by that until I found out that there's a joint venture between the PRC and GM called Shanghai GM that makes Buicks like the Century and Regal, plus some Buicks we don't have here like a rebadged Silouette minivan and a subcompact model (now that was weird, a subcompact Buick). Reportedly it is the largest Sino-US joint venture in the PRC. I did eventually see a few low-end cars, and a few luxury cars, but most cars were midsized: the VWs I mentioned, plus quite a few Accords, some Camrys, Galants, and even a few Sonatas. I don't recall seeing any Nissans or Kias, but I did see one multi-line car dealership that had Kias. I also saw a display for the VW Polo, a good-looking subcompact hatchback. Small minivans (microvans?) were very popular, including a real stubby little thing (like a 3/5 size 1st-gen Toyota minivan) with a Chinese name that looked like it should have a wind-up key on its roof. I did not get the chance to drive in Shanghai, and I wouldn't want to. The drivers are as crazy as in some large U.S. cities, maybe crazier. If you are a pedestrian, better be real careful because it seems that cars, bikes, and mopeds think that they have the right of way at all times--stoplights are only a suggestion. Horn-honking is very popular. But I noticed that the taxi drivers used their lane-changers for every course correction. I also noticed that the taxi drivers didn't like to use 1st gear much (the Santanas had sticks), but would rather shudder their way forward after a stop. Maybe that tactic prolongs transmission life?
  • There's a few Chinese buffets in towns north of Seattle that have these huge colorful pictures of a modern city with tall skyscrapers. These pictures cover a large part of the wall and are very impressive. I asked a worker at one of the restaurants what city that was in the picture and he replied "that's Shanghai!" There was neon all over the place and very tall buildings all around. Buick Century's, huh? VW's and Buick Century's, unlikely best-sellers for a large Chinese city, but you saw them yourself. What brought you to Shanghai, backy?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I was presenting at a technical conference. The dearth of small cars is still a mystery to me. Maybe I would have seen more of them in the suburbs or rural areas, where the income level would have been lower. I expect you'd have to make pretty good yuan to live in the central city in one of those skyscrapers, just like Manhattan.
  • is that what they call the money there yaun ? ya see any good cheap pc parts ?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    But I went to a "super mall" (a big one, not as big as my local Mall of America, a.k.a. Mall of Wretched Excess, but big) and they had lots of electronics stores, but prices didn't seem to be any better than I could get from ibm.com or dell.com or my local Best Buy store. But this was in the high-rent district of Shanghai. The mall is where I saw the display for the VW Polo. I wish VW would bring that car in here, it looked like a nifty little hatchback.

    BTW, I read the other day that Hyundai and China formed a joint venture to make Elantras and Sonatas in China. I don't know if the factory is running yet, but I did see one new Sonata running around--no Elantras. I was talking with a co-worker from Singapore and a co-worker from South Korea, and I mentioned I owned an Elantra. I think the Korean was pleased (I think Hyundai is one of her accounts), but I don't think the guy from Singapore was impressed. He said he owns a Toyota. He probably thinks I am a second-class citizen now. ;-)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    The March issue of Consumer Reports reviewed five low-end sedans: Accent, Aerio, Cavalier, Ion, and Neon. Most of them were optioned up over the $15k mark, but they all start under $15k. None of the cars did very well. That was a surprise as I thought the Aerio would score better based on my experience with it. CR complained about its harsh ride, but I found it to ride quite well, at least as smooth as the Civic and smoother than the Protege. Another surprise was that CR included a subcompact, the Accent, with four compacts in the same group. Not surprisingly, the Accent didn't score very high. But it did outrank three much more costly cars, the Ion, Neon, and Cavalier. That's not so surprising for the Cavalier, an eight-year-old design, but the Neon is the same age as the Accent and the Ion is brand-new. When will DC and GM get serious about small cars?
  • I am still fascinated by the Accent, I wish I could drive one for a couple weeks to see what it is like to live with one.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Some rental car agencies have Accents. If one in your area does, you could rent one for a couple of weeks. Cars like the Accent typically have very low rental rates. I've learned a lot about cars I was considering buying by driving rentals on business trips. I figure if the car holds up as a rental, it will hold up well in daily use.
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