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Low End Sedans (under $16k)



  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You know what, Santa is still poised to take back both of your new toys!

    Chill please! It is entirely possible to disagree agreeably, so could you both just give it a shot? Thanks, that would be very nice, and would be compliant with your Membership Agreement, you know?

    Coolguy, your problem (actually Town Hall's problem, not yours) is the multiple links in one message. Next time try adding "(br)" after each of your links, but look at how you really have to do it - replace the "(" with "<" and the ")" with the ">" and lose all of the quote marks in my examples here. I couldn't get my actual example to post; if this makes no sense email me, and I'll try again.

    That may allow you to post them. (But I don't promise a thing, I must say!)

    Sedans Message Board
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    What's your point? It isn't like Mazdas, Nissans, Suburus and all the other "low quality" japanese brands are pieces of crap. Well, maybe Mitsubishi and Izuzu. My parents have a Camry V6 that was built in Japan and it needed two fuel injectors at 9000 miles and water leaked into the interior. It took the dealer a week to find the leak. It needed new shocks at 35,000 miles and the cv boots went at 40,000. OTOH, my old integra had the original CV boots until 90,000 miles and the shocks never needed to be replaced. Of course I know that Toyota cars have been consistantly the best as far as reliability. My point is that there are other cars out there that are reliable AND they are fun to drive (unlike almost all Toyotas). I drove a newer V6 Accord and IMO it is much more entertaining to drive than the appliance-like Camry sitting in my parent garage. Same goes for the new Altima. I had a 2002 Corolla rental when my 2001 Protege was in the body shop (bumper scuff) and that thing is downright *boring* compared to my Protege ES which isn't anywhere NEAR "low quality". If your whole deal is reliability, point A to point B driving and nothing else, then get a Toyota. If that's the case, then you really aren't an auto enthusiast. Toyota used to make cool cars; their current line up stinks IMO. What ever happened to the Corolla GTS, MR2 Turbo, Supra Turbo, Celica Turbo all-trac? The old RWD Corolla GTS and supercharged MR2s were a blast to drive. I wouldn't have minded buying a Toyota, but they don't make anything cool anymore (the new Celica is just too weird). Now, Toyota's only fault is boringness.
  • Thanks, Pat. I was wondering how I was supposed to do that.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Posts: 1,265
    I apologize Carleton. I will try to be more civil in the future. Pat_Host, thanks you for the heads up.

  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    ....Reason I ask is the Sedona w/3.5L V6 gets 15/20 while Odyssey 3.5L gets 18/25.
    Kia Rio with 1.5L gets 25/30 while Honda Civic with 1.7L gets 30/38, Toyota ECHO with 1.5L gets 32/38.
    Kia Optima 2.7L gets 18/24, Honda Accord 3.0L gets 20/28, Camry 3.0L gets 20/28 and the larger Chevy Impala 3.4L gets even better 21/32.
    All of the above are with automatic transmissions.
    What seems to be the problem with Kia engines/transmissions?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    It's pretty simple I think: Kia has not put as much time and money into the refinement of their engines, including fuel efficiency, as has Honda, Toyota, and others. There are reasons why Rios cost less than ECHOs, Spectras less than Civics, Sedonas less than Odysseys, and Optimas less than Accords and Impalas. This is one of them. VVT technology such as that employed by Honda and Toyota is not cheap, and takes time to perfect.
  • In the economy or compact car segment I think you have 3 types of buyers here. You have your buyers that will buy what is trendy or what someone else told them to buy with no real regard to price or value. Usually these types have little or no knowledge of cars in general or other cars other than the "trendy" car they want to buy. You have your performance or luxury orientated buyers that would rather buy driving a ferrarri or a BMW but financial restrictions are getting in the way. Usually they check out the different cars and know quite a lot so they can find the best car for themselves. I guess you could lump the value buyer in here as well since they do alot of cross shopping and they do their homework. The last group you have is the best deal or the absolute cheapest car types. This does not mean that they will only pay $9000 for a car. People will be willing to put up with questionable build quality for extra options.

    This being said, I don't think any of these strategies is wrong. As long as you are happy with what you bought as a consumer, that's fine.
  • I don't really know why Kias get bad mileage--compared to their competitors. You could say it is lack of refinement or whatever, but I don't know if that's it. I have a 1995 Sephia with a Mazda engine. I only get about 25 around town and about 33 on the road. That may not be bad, but it doesn't seem to be in line with other small cars like it. The mpg has really been my only complaint with the car.
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    Good answers to my question that may seem silly to you who knew the answer.
  • Toyota has its site updated. Bye bye old Corolla.

    Looking good!
  • I saw the new Corolla preview at a few websites and I'm not too impressed. Personally I think it looks like a mini Camry...which I guess is not bad but it's not very original. It's not even being sold yet and it already looks dated. The thing I really didn't like is that they have a "sport" model that is purely cosmetic. The engine sounds weak's already at the bottom of the pack as far as power goes. Nothing ground breaking here, it just looks like toyota is trying to keep up. They did make it more roomy though which is something the Corolla needed.
  • Don't forget what most people buy Corollas for - exceptional build quality and anticipated reliability. I doubt those qualities will change in the new model. I had a 1997 base model Corolla, with the 100hp 1.6 liter and a manual trans. That car was quiet, comfortable and if it hadn't been totaled by a full-size GMC, would likely have been reliable as well.

    As for the accident, it was a head-on, the p/u crossing the center divider into my lane, with our combined speed roughly 100 mph. My car was destroyed, the truck had some minor cosmetic damage, however I walked away from the wreck, the truck's driver had a broken wrist, two broken ribs and had to be taken away in an ambulance.

    I think that the new Corolla will continue the 30+ year trend of its name and be a tremendous success. It is a very high-quality car that mortals can actually afford.
  • Doesn't it have more power than the Civic EX?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Yes, 130 hp to 127 in the EX. Not bad for an under-$14,000 car. Equal to or more than most of the competition, except Neon, Elantra, and the high-zoot Sentra and Golfetta models.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    I bought my Protege for many reasons (it's my third), but one because it looks sharp and original. Now, I understand your opinion may vary, and you may think it's ugly. No matter your feelings, good or bad, though, when you see one on the road, there's no mistaking that it's a Protege. Same thing with other cars in this class: you'll never mistake a Focus for a Sentra or an Elantra for a Civic. The manufacturers put their own touches on each car to distinguish them from competitors and from other cars in their own lines. (Therefore an Elantra doesn't look like a Sonata; a Sentra doesn't look like an Altima; a Protege doesn't look like a 626.)

    Now enter the Corolla. It has no personality that makes its own statement! It's a mini-Camry, and nothing more! I hear they're even offering leather, LOL! In an economy car!

    To me, the car screams "I can't afford a Camry or Avalon, but I wanna look like one!" Ten years from now, no one will remember what this car looked like. It has absolutely NO features that distinguish it from other cars in the line. At least the old model had its own unique appearance.

    Wake up, Toyota! Why can't we have the European body? Must all Toyota enthusiasts have to accept the vanilla (my opinion) Camry styling? I agree with that earlier post -- I miss the mid- to late-80s Toyotas. Remember the FX-16 "pocket rocket?" Or the supercharged first-generation MR2?

    Heck, even their first two minivans were unique in appearance. Now you can't tell a Sienna from a Chevy Venture. Think that's stretching it? Check out:,


    And to think I'm bashing Toyota's new Corolla, when my first car was a 1978 Corolla Deluxe. Oh well.

  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    For helping me prove my point!

  • shriqueshrique Posts: 338
    There really isn't much that you can do with a minivan. There were some experiments (see link) that failed and I think they have just come to the conclusion that this is the best way of handing the problems involved with designing what is essentially a box on wheels. Personally I'm a station wagon kind of guy. They handle so much better. If you need to haul something regularly then by a van. Although you can get a 4x8 sheet of plywood in an Acura MDX. Now that i could driver over a minivan. (chuckle)

  • randyt2randyt2 Posts: 81
    The 2003 Corolla has 90.3 cu. ft. of passenger space listed, which still puts it behind the Elantra (94), Focus (93.8), Protege (92.6), and Civic (91.4). The Echo has 87.4 cu. ft. of passenger space, which is not too far different, which brings up the question why they chose this amount. Is this so that they can remain competitive and yet remain within CAFE so that they can sell more trucks?
  • The Jetta has leather. I'd say that Toyota did this to interest Jetta buyers. The standard features on the CE will draw customers interested in cars in the class. As for styling, it has that unique tall look with those last generation Corolla tail lights. No mistaking that for anything but a Corolla.

    And...this is the European Corolla aka Corolla Altis.
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