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2013 and earlier-Honda Accord Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • ken117ken117 Posts: 189
    One thing to recognize about a dealer's doc fee is if they charge it to one person they must show it on the sales contract as a charge for every sale. For that reason dealers will use words that are designed to imply their doc fee is routine and is paid by everyone. That is false, smart buyers do not pay the exorbitant doc fee.

    While it is true the dealer must show the doc fee on every contract, the reality is everyone does not pay the doc fee. The doc fee is nothing more than a part of the selling price of the vehicle. The selling price includes all dealer costs plus dealer profit. Only way to combat this scam, it is a legalized scam, is to reduce the selling price to compensate for the doc fee.

    If permitted by state law, most dealers will use the doc fee tactic to make a buyer believe the price of the vehicle is less. Does anyone really believe it costs the dealer many hundreds to process a few pieces of paper?

    Florida dealers are notorious for raising this scam to amazing levels. Check out Earl Stewart on Cars for information on how Florida car dealers have perfected this scam.

    Truth is doc fees are legal due, in large part, to the large amounts of money dealers contribute to our elected officials. Does anyone believe those officials are working to protect the car buyer?
  • ken117ken117 Posts: 189
    There are no dealership fees! What those "fees" are is simply profit for the dealer. Dealers use the word fee because it implies some legality to the amount and suggests the amount is something other than part of the price.

    If a dealer quotes a selling price of $23,300 plus a dealer fee of $700, the dealer is really quoting a price of $24,000. That dealer is hoping the buyer will negotiate the $23,300. Smart buyers know better.
  • can someone please advise whether below invoice is possible for 2014 EX-L? What is the right amount below invoice to ask a dealer as most have low inventories. I'd like to buy the car now if possible but does it make sense to wait a few weeks for dealer inventories to rise to get below invoice more readily. Please advise.
  • Having bought my first Honda a couple of weeks ago in MA, no dealer was prepared to negotiate the doc fees (which were about $300). On the other hand, I was able to get a great deal on the car.

    I do agree that doc fees are pure profit for dealerships, and to counter that we (buyers) have to negotiate a rock bottom sale price.

    Apart from Brian125, I have not come across a lot of other forum contributors who were able to negotiate a rock bottom sale price and also avoid paying doc fees. If you are one of them, ken117, I might have to reach out to you in 5-10 years when I am ready to buy another new car :)
  • bluemkn57carsbluemkn57cars Posts: 242
    edited September 2013
    Some forum contributors have been able to get below invoice pricing on 2014 models, ranging anywhere from $500 to about $800 below invoice.

    Pricing depends on a number of factors such as your location, supply and demand in your area, dealers inventory, etc...

    My advice would be to read some of previous posts on how to go about negotiating your best deal and start reaching out to as many dealerships in your area now. If you call dealerships, ask to speak to the internet sales manager or sales manager (They are the decision makers). Do not let a sales guy trick you into coming into the dealership to get the best price. If they start playing games, move on to the next dealership.

    If you are going to be emailing dealerships, here is the info you are interested in when asking for an online quote:

    1. Sales price including destination fee (but without any incentives)
    2. Dealer documentation fees
    3. Title and registration fees (should be the same across dealerships, but you still want to know what it is)
    4. Any current incentives
    5. OTD - Out The Door pricing - It will list the price of the car, plus dealer fees, title and registration fees and taxes.

    It is always best to be an informed buyer so that you can get the best deal possible.

    Good luck and let us know how your search is going.
  • In cost accounting, price includes all dealer cost plus dealer profit or loss. When buying a vehicle the only real fees are those amounts charged by third parties. Sales tax, registration for example. Those fees are collected by the dealer and passed on to the third party. Those fees are neither dealer cost nor dealer profit. Therefore, they are not part of the price.

    The minor effort the dealer expends to process these third party fees in minimal and nothing more than a service the dealer provides to customers as part of the overall selling approach.

    With the advent of the Internet and sites like Edmunds, car buyers have become very knowledgeable about invoice prices, holdback, and incentives as well as the overpriced items dealers offer in the F&I office. As a result, dealer profits on the sale of new cars has fallen.

    To combat this loss, dealers concocted the dealer fee scam. They hope buyers will concentrate on the dealer quoted selling price but ignore, to some extent, the dealer fees. Smart buyers really do view such fees as a component of the selling price.

    Anyone posting a suggestion such fees are legitimate is most likely a dealer or a dealer advocate. The thing to remember is ALL dealer cost is part of the selling price. Any cost a dealer attempts to separate from the price is best viewed as a questionable dealer attempt to deceive the car buyer.

    Personally, the first time I encountered a dealer fee was about 20 years ago at a Nissan dealer. I did not pay it then. The last vehicle I bought was a Ford, this year in Virginia. That dealer had a $500 dealer fee. After we settled on price, the dealer mentioned the additional $500 fee. I told the dealer I would walk if the deal was not adjusted to account for this fee. I am sure the sales person knew I was serious. The sales manager spoke with me and reduced the selling price by $250 and increased the trade value by $250.

    No buyer should ever pay an additional doc fee without, at a minimum, making the dealer believe the buyer will walk if the price is not reduced to compensate for the doc fee. In most cases, the dealer has invested time on the sale. In most cases, the dealer will not let the buyer walk over the doc fee. In any case, what would be lost?
  • gmanusmcgmanusmc SoCalPosts: 436
    Careful - a number of us pointed this out recently on ths forum and promptly received a smack down from forum officials and a few members who refuse to accept this premise.

    Bill G
  • bluemkn57carsbluemkn57cars Posts: 242
    edited September 2013
    I understand that every business needs to make a profit in order to remain in business, but charging $699 to 799 in doc fees is outrageous. Florida car dealers charge some of the highest doc fees.

    Someone posted earlier that with sites like Edmunds.com, more and more car buyers are becoming knowledgeable about invoice pricing, dealer hold backs, flex cash and other incentives. Hence, dealers need to find another profit stream. If doc fees were capped in all states at not more than say $100, then dealers would not be getting bad rep. Although states like NY cap doc fees at $75, most states like MA do not have any cap.

    To new Forum contributors, check out this article for info about doc fees in your state (scroll to the bottom of the page): http://blog.truecar.com/2011/07/26/which-additional-fees-should-i-pay-at-the-dea- - lership-what-is-the-doc-fee/
  • Bluemkn57cars and Brian125 and anyone else,

    Here are my final bids (narrowed it down to three dealers) on the 2014 Honda Accord EXL 4 cylinder (MSRP $29,060 including destination). I think I am going to go with dealer A if you all approve of my deal. The car will be at the dealership today. These three bids were very close. I was able to secure $500 flex cash on the 2014 with Honda financing. It is taken off at the bottom under the OTD pricing.

    2014 Honda Accord EXL 4 cyl blk/blk
    (MSRP $29,060: Includes Destination)
    Honda A Honda B Honda C
    Base Price $25, 872.82 $26,000 $26,043.53
    Tax 7% $1,662.58 $1,668.92
    Est Tag Transfer/State Fees $263.50 $220.75 + $57.00 elect tag
    Dealer Fee $898 $699 $599

    Dealer Options/Perks Included:
    Door Edge Guards yes no no
    Nitrogen In Tires no yes yes
    Mud Guards yes yes yes
    Body Side Molding yes yes no
    Wheel Locks yes yes yes
    Trunk Tray yes yes yes
    Standard Mats yes yes yes
    Pin-Striping yes ? yes
    Tinted Windows $100 ? yes
    Tires switched to OEM Michelin MXV4 no yes yes

    Finance:
    $500 Flex Cash Available (Honda Finace) yes ? yes
    USAA Dealer Rate(.50 off best $1.99 rate yes no yes

    Other:
    Deposit Required To Get Car no ? yes
    Car available on lot now yes no no

    Total OTD price before flex cash $28,696.90 $28,619.00 $29,000
    Less $500 Flex if Honda Financing Used $28,196.90 ? $28,500

    Money from recent referral $100 check n/a n/a

    Payments
    (using Honda Financing)
    2.74% at 78 months ($28,196.90) $395.06
    1.99% at 66 months ($28,196.90) $451.26

    (using C1CU Financing pre-approved)
    2.74% at 78 months ($28,696.90) $402.06
    1.98 % at 66 months ($28,696.90) $459.26

    *Note: I am going with a longer term since we had a car totaled and need to replace it but we are in the middle of building a house with a mortgage pending*
  • Sorry that it scrambled my information. Hopefully you can see the dealers A, B, C and then figure out how each thing aligns. Sorry!
  • gmanusmcgmanusmc SoCalPosts: 436
    Blue - I think it's obvious that 699-799 doc fees are outrageous. I was merely pointing out to ken that we've had this discussion on this forum recently and were directed by a forum official to end the discussion. I agree with Ken's theory but a few members have stated the don't (I think you included). I think most of us are smart enough to adjust our negotiation technique to account for the doc fee stuff - we should probably just leave it at that.

    Bill
  • bluemkn57cars,
    Thank you very much for your comprehensive response. Lots of useful information here and I will follow your guidance. To date, I've contacted 3 dealers in long island, NY and none willing to offer a competitive price with all asking me to come into dealership to get better pricing. It came to the point, where I was questioning why bother with the internet as the only thing they do is take your information and then talk you into coming in the dealership. I will try to reach as many dealers as I can to see who has the most competitive price and if I can get any to give me a bottom line price without coming in. I will update everyone as I make progress and if someone has a local NY area dealer offering a good below invoice price, please post here.
    Thank you
  • If the base price already includes the cost of the dealer add-ons, then it would be best if you could list the price of the car without any add-ons.

    Your listed OTD price includes the base price of the car plus dealer doc fees, tag and title fees, and sales tax. Hence, I am trying to figure out how much you are being charged for all these add-ons in order to tell whether you are getting a good deal. The only price I see is $100 for window tinting from dealer A.

    Am I missing something here? BTW, did you try asking any of the dealers to reduce their doc fees?

    I am sure Brian will provide his input soon.
  • I apologize. My head is starting to ache over this damn car which I am sure is what they want!!! My base guaranteed price through USAA is supposed to be $25,300 on this car with destination and regional fee included (USAA price does not include dealer fees or options added) So, I guess that means that the options are costing me $572.82 total. The tinted windows for $100 were negotiated but will be in addition to the option price I just mentioned.

    They will not negotiate dealers fees in Florida other than just working on the price. I have found that with 8 dealerships. Here is the response from this dealer on our deal too for some side info:

    "Invoice on the car before any accessories is $26,650.10
    Your purchase price WITH accessories is $25,872.82
    Hold back on the car is $989.45 so in essence your are paying $212.17 above true dealer cost before any accessories which is less then 1%. We are in business to make a profit even if it's a small one"
  • I bought one about a month ago, around 22,300 OTD, from Russel and Smith in Houston
  • bluemkn57carsbluemkn57cars Posts: 242
    edited September 2013
    Did the dealer with the best offer list the individual prices of all the add-ons?

    The MSRP for some of these options on Honda's website (without installation cost) is as follows:

    1. Door Edge Guards ($95)
    2. Mud Guards/ Splash Guards ($104)
    3. Body Side Molding ($225)
    4. Wheel Locks ($56)
    5. Trunk Tray ($139)
    6. Standard Mats (do you mean all season floor mats?)
    7. Pin-Striping (no price listed but I hear it is an inexpensive option)
    8. Tint for $100 extra

    Total without tint = $619 (assuming MSRP and no installation charges). You could try and negotiate a better deal for the dealer add-ons, but I would like other forum contributors who have more experience to chime in and offer their feedback.

    The USAA sales price is good deal since it is $1350 below invoice, before the atrocious $898 doc fees. Try and see if the dealer would lower the sales price of the car and/or throw in some accessories for free to counter those doc fees.
  • would appreciate any thoughts/comments on the following:

    2013 Honda Accord EX-L, no NAV. I lost the notes I took, but it's $355 a month, all fees, taxes, etc are in the lease. I only pay the first month payment of 355 at signing. Thoughts?
  • Forgot to mention that it's a 2013 Accord EX-L, 4 cylinder CVT. 12k miles. 36 months.
  • Here is the response I got from Dealer C. Dealer A's response will be below that. One dealer says the holdback is $559 and the other says it is $989. Can you guys please tell me if this is correct from them or not? I can't make their numbers jive with mine.

    DEALER C:

    Hello......,

    Below is the real numbers on a 2014 Honda Accord EX-L CVT:

    MSRP: $29,060.00

    Dealer Invoice: $25,609.00
    Destination: $790.00

    Actual Cost of Vehicle: $26,399.00

    Hold Back: $$559.90

    In order to sell this vehicle for $28,500 OTD the starting price is less than the actual cost of the vehicle.

    Sales Price: $26,106.74
    Tax: $1,605.76
    Tag: $188.5
    Dealer Fee: $599

    Total Balance: $28,500.00

    Also, we are charging zero for dealer options.

    In our previous quote we just discounted the vehicle more to cover cost of dealer options. In the above numbers we took them out of the equation.

    DEALER A:
    .......,
    We can go round and round on the numbers but I can't do any better then I already have. You're omitting labor charges to install the equipment, you're buying the car for less then the invoice minus the hold back combined and USAA doesn't calculate labor charges or dealer installed accessories.
    I've even tried to help you and even giving to you for $500.00 less the we spoke about which is $28,166.90 out -the-door since you can't use flex cash on the 2014's. I'm sorry but I have no where else to go!!
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