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'99 Silverado/Sierra vs. F-150
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Comments
I am over this, jerk boy.
The Dodge V6 is ok in the Dakota, but is almost as big a gas hog as their thirstier V8's. Reliability seems to be ok also. Do you want a thirsty V6?
The Chevy 4.3l has been a reliability proven torque monster (in its class) compared to competition. Even the Ford guy's will admit that GM's V6 line (cars and trucks) is far more adavanced and proven.
Want to hear about all the guy's whining about how gutless their 4.2l V6 is? Go to www.f150online.com. Every single one of them is begging for aftermarket mods just to make the truck quasi-adequate.
Nope, for torque, horsepower, and fuel economy, the Chevy 4.3l is a proven winner, not only in my book, but many testers as well.
As for the "cheap interior", well, one could easily say the same about Ford and Dodge. Having been a ford owner for 15 years, Ford has definately slacked in the interior dept as well. The swoopy, swopy, dopy looking, cramped up cabin and not to mention those dreadful seats. Terribly uncomfortable.
Just my opinion. Please don't start shooting like our favorite friend Rocles. It is just MY opinion and not meant to be taken as doctrine.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
who's dad can whip who's!
If you don't knock off the personal attacks I can and will shut this down. I remind you that your participants agreement requires civil discourse. Name calling does NOT qualify!
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
A few years ago I bought a 6 cyclinder F-150. Kept it for 6 years and regretted not getting a V8 almost every minute of those 6 years. The truck was OK but had no real power on the highway and didn't get the gas mileage I bought it for. I learned the hard way to get a V8. You never know what you will be doing 1 year or 3 years from now and whether or not you will need the power. There isn't really much difference in gas mileage and, its just my opinion, but I think the V8 will not have to work as hard as the 6 cylinder and therefore would last longer. Again, just my opinion. Pay the extra money for the V8. You'll get it back in resale/trade-in. (I also learned that the hard way - when I sold that 6 cylinder truck - most people want a V8 in a truck.)
JMSColorado
Ford 4.2L V-6: 205@4750rpm, 250ftlb@3000 torque
Dodge 3.9L V-6: 175hp@4800rpm, 230ftlb@3200 torque
Chevy does have the edge but not exactly a dominator in its class. Identical to the Ford in HP and a slight edge in torque. Essentially, if choosing trucks with six cylinder engines, this is one area which shouldn't be a deciding factor.
Except for Zbad. Sorry Z, but when I look around at all the used car lots, all I see are GMC and Chevy and Dodge trucks. I can't hardly find a Ford. Now I bet you're going to tell me it's because they've traded in their "old" technology for the "new" sophisticated stuff. I'm not going to buy it. The only way I'd sit in that cheap Chevy material is if they were 25% cheaper in cost.
I think my best bet is to go with a compact truck now. The only problem I see is that when you get an extended cab and some nice options you're right back up to 20k and I could get an F150 for close to that with a lot more room.
Can anyone direct me to the best compact truck discussions?
First they were tested empty. The Toyota was the fastest, to 60 mph, and in the 1/4. The Ford was second by .01 second, in both. Chevy was third. Dodge of course was fourth.
Then they loaded the trucks with 1000 lbs.
Ford came in first, by quite a bit. The Tundra was second, Chevy third, and then Dodge.
On the slalom the Ford killed everything else. It also had the better ride, especially over bumps.
Yeah, Yeah, I know magazines can be biased, but here's where it gets interesting. Overall, the Ford came in third behind, first the Toyota, and Chevy second. The final ratings encompassed only subjective variables, e.g. styling, fit and finish, etc. Performance was not factored in.
I guess I am biased, but it just seems strange that a truck that does everything, or at least everything you buy a truck for, better than all the others, comes in third.
As for brands, I just did all the comparisons. I bought a '99 GMC Sierra. I liked the Ford until I saw all the standard features the GMC gave. I don't want to start the Ford vs. GM, but I found dollar for dollar, the GMC represented a better value. Ford comes standard with a 6 cylinder and 5 speed, the GMC extended cab came with the 4.8 V* and automatic. Additionally, CD player, ect.
Good luck, and shop around. The less of a hurry you're in, the happy you'll be later.
The Ford 4.2l is new and very unproven. It is widely known to be a dog, very underpowered. Those marketing statistics that were thrown out mean absolutely nothing to me but to be random numbers. The real life experiences are what count in my book and you can go to the Ford web site with the highest members and traffic of any other Ford site, www.f150online.com, and see just how proud the Ford owners are of the 4.2l. Its a joke, much like the 4.6l V8 is. All you read about is complaints, mainly of how underpowered it is. They all bought the 4.2l to save gas, tow and payload needs were light, etc. etc. Well, you will read that the 4.2l doesn't get great gas mileage either. Chevy gets better mileage out of all their engines than the other two manufacturers
I can't explain why you claim to see an abundance of Chevy and Dodge V6 trucks in used car lots. I equate that to the biggest line Ford owners use "Ford sells more trucks....blah, blah, blah." I still see more Chevies on the road, old and new, and in BETTER CONDITION than Ford trucks. Where do all the Fords end up if they sell so many more than Chevy?????? Why do when I see an older Ford truck, it is a rusty pile of crap with parts hanging off of it from every angle?
My advice to you is go buy whatever you want. I don't care if you buy a Ford or not. I am not going to try and say that a Chevy is better for you because what you buy is a personal preference. What is good for me is not necessarily what is best for everyone. I just try and save people some trouble by sharing the experiences I have had from my ownership of "many" trucks over the last 15 years.
What I don't understand and frankly, I get a little irritated with, is that you asked for advice and opinions, then you come back and dog the responses you got. Sounds like you already knew what you wanted, so WHY DID YOU "WASTE" OUR TIME??????
Real-life expierences? Well, Z-BAD doesn't want to hear me but I have a few. Those numbers thrown out there are tested numbers-not claimed by the company.
Second-off: If considering a six from Ford- don't buy the hype that it is a "dog". Widely known? From whom?????? In my humble opinion, all sixes are always overworked in a full-size truck. To offset the cost, you have to ask yourself a very important question: Are you going to use it? One of my foremen has an XL with the six and he hauls his trailer of bikes everywhere and gets around 15mpg. When he has a load-it sucks gas, but, I don't think the Chevy will be some paragon of power when compared. How foolish. All sixes suck gas when under load. The real question is will it really matter if not used often?
The 4.3L in the Chevy is a car engine. No difference compared to the 4.2L of Ford. Period.
Not proven? The truck is. Engine? So what? The straight six from the eighties was a great motor with great torque(any "owner" of "15" years of trucks knows this) and yet it's major con when it came out was that it wasn't "proven". Huh? I'll grant that GM has a great track record of engines. You will never hear me bust on the small-block 350. Never. Great engine. Alas, Ford can make a motor as well.......
Chevy is a fine truck--just don't limit your options by blindly following the muscle-car crowd that is only concerned with engines. When considering trucks-there is more involved.
ROC
Actually, if you were to listen to the public; one would think that Dodge should be crushing all others. Guess what!! Looks and engine choices do not matter to all truck buyers!!! What a concept! Ford has to be making something okay otherwise it would be getting obliterated in sales.
So here is the question: What does Ford do well in order to sell their trucks? And not just sell them--Sell more than all others??
If they had such crappy vehicles--what gives? I guess Z-BADDD is right: Ford sucks!!!!
In my opinion, one should not even consider a V6 engine unless it can provide a benefit over a V8. Lower cost? Not by much. Better fuel economy, not at all. So why even buy one at all. A V8 will have less strain to do the same work and thus provide as good a gas mileage as a V6 will. The V6, no matter what engine brand, will be a poor choice in a full size truck.
Dog? Like I said, the most visited Ford web site, www.f150online.com is full of the "by whom". It does have almost as much uuuummph grunt as the 4.6l V8, but that isn't saying much.
I agree, having owned two new full size trucks with the 300 straight six, it is the ONLY 6 cylinder I would have considered over a V8. It had unlimited low end torque and could withstand mortar fire and keep on going. Worst mistake Ford did next to create the new model in 97, was to eliminate the 300-6 from the powertrain line-up.
The numbers you provided are like all numbers. They are derived from biased testing or manufacturer "specs". I have not found any true unbiased test numbers on any truck or car. Proof over time and customer survey is the only true evaluation to go by. The 4.3l V6 has always gotten good scores by on owner satisfaction. PERIOD. When Ford owners complain about their own brand new truck being a dog, yada yada yada, you gotta take it to the bank that its something to stay clear of.
You said it best in your closing paragraph. One SHOULD take note of what wins in the muscle car and truck engines. Nobody can rebute the FACT that GM wins more NASCAR car and truck races than Ford on GM's worst day. FACT! I know they are highly modified and not true GM / Ford engines but the design and technology is still by GM engineers and crewchiefs.
You are wrong about my loyalty to GM. I would be the first to slam GM if I had a bad experience with them or their vehicles. I have always owned GM cars and Ford trucks until Ford screwed up a good thing with the 97 forward models.
For once, I can converse with you on the topic and not get heated. Why? Because you stated your points without insults or slams. I don't care if you slam the vehicle I prefer, etc. One may have a totally different opinion than me. Thats ok. That is what has won fights on the battle field as well as brought us many quality cars and trucks to have that choice. We can always agree to disagree. Just don't start shooting at the back and we can argue points all day long without it getting ugly.
Touche'
Take care.
However, you get what you pay for so buying a GM product saves you money in the long haul. Calm down everyone....I am entitled to a little bit of rashing. -smile-
Unlike someone else on these boards, I am not fool enough to consider my empirical experience proof that "fords are junk", or even that the Dodges are, and then go on to see that vehicle in the worst light possible in every category.
I feel it my duty to say ....Drop the pickled egg, spit out the redman, and STEP AWAY FROM THE HUGE CHEVY BELT BUCKLE, sir. Did a Ford salesman sleep with your wife or something?
Take your "Blue Shovel" of crap to the junk yard where you should find your truck parked.
Have a wonderful evening....SIR.
I bought my 99 Z71 Silverado in July. I have owned it for almost 2 months of which one month has been spent in the service department. Replace rear main seal, replace all four cab to frame mounts, balance tires. This is so far and I only have 1100 miles on the truck.
I am trying very hard to like this truck, but it is not cooperating. Now I am getting a very loud thump when tranny changes from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 gears. Have a very annoying squeak in the seat (drivers). There is a very perceptable "growl" sound between 40-50 MPH. When the A/C compressor engages when at a stop sign the truck lurches. There is also a noise in the "vacuum" motor that drives the A/C controls. Sorta squeaks when changing airflow direction on A/C-Heat control.
Just wondering what will happen next. I know this is only 1 truck out of thousands, but I also realize that the Ford I had was only 1 truck out of thousands and I did not have these problems.
I did get GM to agree to pay my September payment, and while it was in the shop I drove a new truck as a loaner. The dealer is working with me, and of all the trucks they have sold, mine has by far had the most problems. Think I will give it another couple months and try and get another one.
Nascar? Like lvstang has said: Take away Gordon and Earnhardt and Chevy has no one else. Jarrett, Martin, Burton, Wallace and Elliott have more wins than the rest of Chevy drivers over the past decade. Teery Labonte? No. Only 18 wins over 18 or so years. DW? Ouch! Don't forget about the Ford drivetrains used in all NASCARs. Well, that's more of a fun debate......
I won't ever forget Earn-fart crying last year after the Vegas race. Whaaaa! Ford has an unfair advantage! Yeah, it's called making a better car. After cutting the heck out of the Taurus--finally Chevy could compete again.
I agree though, on the sixes in a full-size truck. Unless price is the biggest hold-back, get the eight. 4.6L? Well..... I'll concede that the 280 is pretty small. The 5.4 is a better choice if the sticker doesn't scare you away.
BTW, Am I to gather from most Chevy and Dodge guys that if the Ford was more conservative in appearance would you be at least interested?? I'm trying to gauge how much looks impress buyers of trucks.
1st. The Chevy 4.3L,IMO, is probably the best 6 cylinder in a truck right now. I don't care for the Fords because it is just plain Anemic and Dodge just seems to be adequate. The 4.3 gets good mileage, great power and torque, if mated to the right tranny, and in my experiance is pretty bullet proof.
2nd As for the Chevy 5.3 vs the Ford 5.4 tough call I am on the fence. The Ford has more "Real Truck" grunt while the Chevy has a more usable powerband. I am personally waiting on a new Silverado because I use my trucks as personal vehicles and I think the Chevy is better suited to this task. Better, ride and handling IMO and a nicer Trans. and Engine combo for day to day driving and light pickup work.
The 5.4 is much better choice for "Real Stump puling truck work" I just feel that driving it at highway speeds seems to show the engine running out of breath or just not responsive. Again not trying to start a war here.
3rd. I always thought the Chevy and GMC combined outsold Ford. No hard evidence to offer and I would be interested if somebody could post some true numbers.
4th. Lets face facts. The best vehicles sold today are the full size trucks, Chevy, Dodge or Ford. They are the companies cash cows and none of them are Crap. I tend to like Chevy for my own reasons but like other people have said, Ford has got to be doing something right to sell the hell out of the 150s. The one thing I would like to see all 3 companies do is to stop making miniscule enhancements to each others truck to one up the other guy in some small way and to start re-building the entire, production, dealer and customer service aspects of the equasion. I love American vehicles especially trucks but they have a long way to go to catch up to the service and quality of say Lexus or Acura or Toyota. I am sure everybody here has at least one horror story about their favorite brand's customer service.
I just thought I give my opionion. I have heard that FORD is putting an 18 degree incline on the back seat for 2000 any chance of a bigger cab, not counting the new Crew Cab 150?
That Jeff Gordon is something! You go boy! Dale Earnhardt, not too popular with the crowd spinning Terry Labonte around at Bristol, but that's racing! Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday never worked for me. Nascar has nothing to do, at all with how I perceive the value of trucks. I don't mind Mark Martin, or Wallace, or the Burtons winning. Bobby Labonte also kicks butt.
As one of those Chevy guys, I can tell you that more conservative looks for a Ford would not make a difference to me. The F150 already looks good overall. So did the square shaped ones before the swoopy look. I like the leather seats on the Lariat, and the contoured layout of the dash panel the way it blends with the windshield is nice, but don't care for the look of the instruments themselves. Put all the numbers back on the gauges, and lose the taurus oval themes, please! The F250 has the best external styling, and a cavernous interior rivaling the Ram, but extremely drab interior appointments unless you bought it for hosing out.
Can't wait to see the F150 Super Crew Cab hit the market! Don't need one myself, but it's going to be fun to watch it take sales from suv's and extended cab trucks, and cars. I think the concept of 4 full size doors and real back seat room will take off, if somebody gets this right. Nissan has it, but who wants a Nissan? I guess some do but I think Ford will sell F150 Super Crews as fast as they make them. GM? They will take too long, and be flat-footed. The new Silverado/Sierra was too late itself, almost. Selling pretty well now though.
Love my Silverado...You go Jeff!
Take a valium and try to have some fun.
I totally agree with the both of you.
Ford 4.6l - dog
Ford 5.4l - ok in the low end but not real useful over the entire rpm band for what "most" people use a "light duty" full size truck for. I can't EVEN imagine the disappointment buying an F250 with the 5.4l in it, but really no more of a disappointment than the 4.6l in the F150.
I have never owned one, but would buy nothing but a Ford in the diesel catagory (if I needed a diesel) My 1 ton with 454 is more than adequate for my real work. My 5.3l 1/2 ton is the best for overall driving and light duty full size truck service (what its intended use is for)
Now, from all that I have researched about the ISUZU diesel, (don't go off again Rocles), I think GM may have a true winner in the diesel catagory for once.
Now, truth be known, I am not truly loyal to one make over another. I just know that in the 1/2 ton's Chevy has no competition. I would buy a Ford again, in spite of the piss poor customer service I received and the many problems I had with the 98 model truck I owned (gutless 4.6l) However, Ford better come up with a much better gas powered engine line-up and do something about the fit and finish of their cabin and accessories.
The new Fords have squirrelly steering, weaker engines and transmissions than the pre 97's, and that goofy swoopy look has got to go. Looks like an overgrown Taurus with offroad tires. I didn't like the looks when they first came out, but I had always owned Fords with good luck, so I stayed loyal. Big mistake. I should have waited a few more months and got my Silverado. Costly mistake I am not likely to make again.
I am glad you Ford owners can see through all the Fords imperfections and like them anyway. It helps keep the competitions trucks more reasonably priced.
As for the NASCAR stuff. I like to watch Burton, Wallace, and Jarret race and I have no problem with them winning. When it comes down to who wins, it is really the driver more than anything. The cars are pretty much equal in aspects of any advantages mechanically.
However, everyone knows that not only has Chevy dominated at the track, they have been the envy of the Ford guy's since way back in the 60's.
Who can even put a lowly 4.6l Mustang in the same catagory as the C5 Vette? Not hardly. The Vette has always been able to eat the Mustang's lunch. Ford has NEVER created a real competitor in a production sports car, not in comparison to the GM lines. The closest thing Ford has had is the
Mach I Mustang back in I think 71 or 72? Guessing at the year.
I am sure this post will get plenty of slams and such. No matter. Facts will still be facts. All one has to do is look at history and be humbled by the GM Muscle cars! Long live the GM Muscle Car!
Take care.
P.S. Are you trying to share your Valium prescription? How about your Prozac and Lithium?
but how much do you want to bet that when the 97 F-150 or the newer version of the dodge came into play, that there wasnt bugs or whatever in them.
ford and dodge have had ample time to fix all there bugs and chevy just came out with theres so i guess people just have to have something to bash each other about, i dont know
i have a '99 chevy Z-71 w/ 5.3L 3.73
a buddy of mine has the ford 5.4 there pretty equal
i have ridden with him and he has with me
and everytime i get on it when hes with me hes always just ooooooo'ing and ahh'ing on the acceleration
im not sayin that the 5.4 isnt lacking but it doesnt match up quite right
unlike some people i have pulled with my chevy(alil over 100 square bales on a 16 ft lowboy bumper hitch) im guessing --100bales @ somewhere around 75lbs each + - around 7500lbs + or -
pulled like a charm, only thing i didnt like was that it squatted some
but what can you expect from a half ton??
chevy makes the gas engines, ford makes the diesels, dodge makes diesels too but doesnt have a truck to put it in
what ive heard about the reliability of the new isuzu goin in the chevy, i think that chevy might have something going here
im not biased against fords(only the f-150's)
i personally think that the supy duties look awesome!! i wish chevy would hurry up and get theres out
and also on my final note.. chevy + <----(see that a plus sign)
chevy+GMC have been selling more "light duty" trucks for a long time
anyways, if the f-150 is the best selling truck in america
who gives a rats [non-permissible content removed], i would rather have
"The longest lasting pickup" or whatever it is
oh one more thing
people say that the chevy hasnt changed much..they need to open there eyes, its totally different.. and the accesories look awesome on them
f-150 looks like a damn car, just doesnt ride like one
the dodge, well it looks like a dodge, same "OLD" dodge
leathal
the engines are almost identical
it is probably 90% the driver and 10% the car
the driver is what wins the race in this case
Loyal Ford guy's seem to take anything said about their Ford trucks as a personal attack. Tells one where their value systems lie.
Get a life Ford guy's. You act as if someone is name calling your significant other's. Of course, with your taste in trucks and how you get so bent out of shape when anything is said negative about them, one has to wonder what your significant other looks like!!!! LOL.
lvstang:
Tizzy, Tizzy, Tizzy. You seem to be fairly knowledgeable of engines, etc. Like I said about the Ford production sports cars, I think I did mention the Mach I Mustang which, I think, had the 429 in it in its last two years of production. I am not sure, but I know you will jump to slam, uuuh I mean correct me if I am incorrect. Still the 429 could not compete with GM's MANY MANY Muscle cars. The Vette only had a 283, I believe at the time, and the stock 429 had to be modified to compete with it.
I don't know. Never claimed to "know it all". I just always hear about GM muscle cars, even from loyal Ford owners. The only ones that talk Ford so called muscle cars are the high schoolers with their 5.0 and 4.5l mustangs that mom and dad bought them, and of course "can beat anything on the road". Yeah, ok.
No. I have no need for Prozac. I can easily forget you even exist. To me its just a truck. I don't take truck slams to heart and rarely care about personal slams either.
Take your pacifier and your blanky and call it a night. Sounds like lack of sleep has made you grumpy. Maybe your truck can be line leader next year.
From the generous power ratings that GM motors tend to get I believe these independant dino testings that I have read. I have two friends with a 5.3 and have drove them and them mine(5.4). I will stick to the 5.4. Ecspeciallly in a 4x4.
Got 5000 mi on my ext.cab 4x4 Sport 5.4 and have not had one thing go wrong. This is the tighest truck I've ever owned and am very pleased. However, I do own a 1984 s-10 with 180,000mi and is still going. Can't say much there. It has been a good truck and if I was ever to buy another compact it would probally be a S-10. But for the half tons the 5.4 is impressive.
Take care.
P.S. Even though my Mustang is no where near a 7 second car I swear Mommy and Daddy didn't buy it for me.
I admit, the Chevy truck is not perfect and I would be an idiot to say it is or even to expect it to be. What I will stand firm on is that for a daily driving, all around truck for light duty payload, which is what a 1/2 ton is for, my experience of owning both makes, Ford F150, and now the new Silverado, in spite of a few problems (VERY MINOR IN COMPARISON TO FORDS LIST), the GM truck line is a much better product as an "overall" choice.
Take a look at the recalls and service bulletins of the pre 99 Chevy's back to say 89. Then take a look at the recalls and service bulletins on the pre 99 Fords back to 89. Ford clearly has way more problems listed than Chevy. When I had problems with my Ford, I researched it out. The Ford trucks had more problems and the problems it did have were more severe problems than the ones GM trucks had. I admit that the new Silverado is not flawless, but the most severe one is the vibration problem and that has been determined to be the chrome wheels that are going on the 2wd model trucks. None of the 4X4 trucks have been affected. Change of the rims to another brand and people have been happy. To me, this is a very insignificant thing and should be expected on a new model truck.
Now Ford on the other hand.....Weaker engine line, an admitted weaker transmission than was used on less torque and hp trucks of pre 97 (why in the hell would they do such an idiot thing?)which has resulted in many transmission replacements, steering boxes on the new models go out before 50k miles (as mine did), pitman arm faiures (as mine did), transfer case and transmission grinds/vibrations (as mine did and could never get fixed), on and on and on and on.
I don't have a problem buying a Ford or Dodge or any other brand. I am not loyal to a make. I buy what is best on the market at the time I need to purchase. The GM truck line is far better a truck line overall than the other two. Reported problems prove it, survey's prove it, road tests prove it. There is just too many sources other than just my own opinion that point to the new GM truck to be the winner, at least for now.
Two or three years from now when I am ready to buy again, if Ford has pulled it out of there ear and come up with a truck that is a winner over Chevy, I won't blink an eye to buy a Ford. Although I am still quite discontent with Ford's total disregard to customer satisfaction. They still have not remedied all the piston slap trucks that they have not so slyly tried to wait past oem warranty expiration to address.
Wake up man. Buy the best. Don't buy from loyalty. If you do, you're gonna get stuck with an anemic, troublesome, and plain ugly truck.
Have a good day all.
-smile-
I loved the 97, I thought the design of it looked very good, thought so from the first time I saw one in a magazine. I don't know what you are referring to when you say the 4.6 V8 is gutless. I recently moved from LA to Nebraska. I did it with the 97, a full load in the bed and a completely filled 16' Uhaul, crossing through Denver. Some of those mountain passes were quite steep, at high elevations. On that trip, going through (I believe it is called...) Eisenhower pass, at 70 mph, I punched it and easily flew by some car that was struggling to make the climb. I was able to accelerate, up a hill, with a full load, with a full trailer behind me, at high elevation, in a gutless 4.6L V8. I'd like to know what you have done that makes that makes the engine seem gutless. My overall opinion of the 97 is that it was a great truck, I would give it high marks on everything, including the handling and response, exterior design, interior design and even the gutless engine.
Now I drive a 5.4L F-150. Having 4wd sure does make it higher. No complaints about it at all. I doubt if I ever will.
I didn't buy from loyalty. I tested the other trucks. Dodge was ruled out by my fear of having it break down. Too many friends have not liked their experiences with the Ram. Chevy was ruled out the second I sat in it. Even though it has more room than my F-150, I felt cramped right away. Adjusting the seat to where I sit when I drive, I noticed I would have to lean up to see out the drivers side window, that pillar was right next to my shoulder. Didn't have that problem in the Ford. Also, I have a real problem with floor consoles. I like my space, and floor consoles are in my space. I don't even know if Chevy's come without that floor console, but the one I sat in did, and it really annoyed me. Call me petty, but nothing about the Ford annoys me. Nothing.
One final point. I don't know what you are referring to when you say the truck is troublesome. I got the 97 in June, 96, so I have driven the new model Ford for over three years now. Only one problem. A rock caught a brake line and cracked it. Lost pressure but a Ford dealer I took it too (Winnemucca, Nevada - great service!) fixed it quickly and got me back on the road. If that is the only problem I have had in the last three years, I don't see your alleged quality complaints.
Just my opinion.
The truck was gutless because one had to stand on the gas pedal to get it to even downshift on the highway. It was adequate in First and second gear but lost grunt after that and especially on the highway in overdrive. Most people who use a light duty (1/2 ton) truck don't need as much in the low end as they do on the mid to upper end (highway speeds). The new model Ford trucks lack gumption past 2nd gear. Sure they have a higher torque at 2300 rpm, but only by 15 lbs and they quickly lose the torque advantage, peaking out much earlier than the GM. The GM trucks still have almost the same torque in the low end but maintain that torque over a longer and flatter band of the rpm range. Its nice that the Ford has that few extra pounds in the low end. Nobody can knock it for that, but it quickly becomes anemic for towing loads on the highway in comparision to the GM. The GM trucks have a much more useful torque curve than the Ford. Fact! Even unloaded it strained with a decent headwind or going up a slight incline. Forget having a passing gear.
Glad you stepped up to the 5.4l. Ford mainly puts the 5.4l in the F250. The power mongers get it in the F150's to use it as a race car. It is quick, but that doesn't make it useful for what a truck is designed to be used for. As a truck engine, even in a light duty truck, it is barely adequate for the F150.
Chevy's engine and transmission line up is much stronger and has much more choice/variety. Just don't have a good diesel line.....YET! When a small block V8 out torques and out horsepowers a V10, like the Chevy 6.0l against Fords V10, Ford better go back to the drawing board.
Chevy just beats Ford hands down. We can talk till we are blue in the face, but all the information, tests, survey's and the like prove it. Even the Chevy truck owners that have had more than their share of problems with the new GM trucks, still prefer the GM truck over the alternatives.
Ford just didn't have it this year, last year or the year before, but theres always year 2001. Maybe the Ford can be King of the mountain then. Not likely, but I will be the first to admit it if they do. We'll see.
Take care and again, glad you like your Ford.
When I read all the stuff ya'll say about each others trucks I have about decided to buy neither. My very best ever was a 81 Chevy Luv, which was really an Izuzu and also the small 4 wheel drive of the year. Maybe another Izuzu or a Toyota or Nizzan is what is needd. the New Tundra really looks good and the engine is proven int the land cruiser.
What do you think about that.
Maybe a Toy is what I need.
Well, explain the years of the 350 in the Chevys. Were those trucks "barely adequate"? What about the 5.3L? I think ZBAD wears a bowtie to work.
Torque is most useful and needed at the lower rpm level. After a load gets moving, inertia and horsepower take over to keep it moving. Torque is most critical at the initial pull in which the added 15 lbs makes a difference.
BTW, I've had many "barely adequate" Chevys and Dodges with small-block V-8s but my opinion was that they were better than "adequate".
Vettes versus 'Stangs? Apples to oranges as we all know. The real comparison and rivalry are between the mustang and the camaro.
KC has yet to get back to me about the sales figures but I'll get them to you when I can.
Ford has the most different formats in which one can buy a light-duty truck. Don't believe me? Fine-look here at Edmund's and find out yourself.
Also--guys that wouldn't buy a Ford proved to me that looks matter. A major complaint from Ford-haters is the "swoopy" or "taurus-like" looks.
ZBAD--for a guy who bashes Ford loyalty--why do you praise Chevy so much? I think you have more than a plausable pride for your brand of truck.
But you and I know there is more important things. You sound like your trucks are mainly for work. Mine will be personal use with the occassional towing of a boat or horse trailer, and hauling some firewood.
Now from the "personal use" perspective here is why I selected the Chevy. It has more interior room + comfortable back, the 5.3 is more economical than the 5.4 with similar power, GM's autotrac 4WD, and the general better quality of GM products I have had (Camaro, Corsica) vs. Ford (2 Escorts, Taurus, Mustang) - mostly bought new.
The half-tons I believe are made for "personal use", and heavier trucks are made for daily work. A worktruck doesn't need power options, nice stereos, etc. If I didn't need to occassionally haul or tow something, or get through winter snows, I'd be driving a Corvette. Since my bank says I can only afford one or the other, I bought a Silverado. So to everyone who hates to see a truck at the grocery store I apologize upfront.
But wasn't that my point? You gave reasons for buying Chevy over Dodge-not Ford since it was already ruled out by your wife due to its looks.
I do use my trucks for work so looks are never a factor for me. If they were, I wouldn't own five Dodges! I think Chevy makes a fine truck and I have gradually warmed up to the new Silverado. Trust me, that's pretty hard after the three diablos I had from GM of the 95 model year. The 5.3L is a fine motor and from Chevy-that's what we expect. Also, I agree that Chevy has a better finish to their cars and trucks over the past few decades.
The half-tons are for both work and play. I have many heavy-duties but I like my half-tons for warranty and shingling-only jobs. Speaking of work, I'm here at the office helping my staff out with the deluge of calls due to H.Floyd. Money is nice but I hate getting jobs under stressful calls from desperate people. I know that many people loath roofers but we get some compliments on days like this.
Kernick-let us know how your truck works out--congratulations on your purchase!
Roc
Economics and a 4x4 does not mean that much too me. I will gladley sac. a few mpg. for a better overall truck. Come on, how many of you would really sac. power for a few mpg. That was stupid to say. Obviously there are alot of you.
I don't think the F-150 is any tougher than a Silverado 1500. In fact isn't the Silverado rated for higher towing 8,500lb on my 5.3L Z-71, more power also, better mileage, more room. The Ford has the advantage in price, but not compareably equipped.
You sound a lot like the Dodge boys around here, saying the Ford's better. I list specifics, you don't. What's better about the Ford? and let's stick with the F-150 vs. the Silverado 1500. Let's see your big list - not.
I must have been real lucky on the 97, heck I even had one of the first ones out, it was the first one sold at the dealer where I got it. I actually picked it out while they unloaded it off the truck. Drove it home that day. Anyway...
A lot of people here complain about the lack of space available in the F-150. I know its not as big, but I think it "sits bigger." For myself, I couldn't drive a Silverado, the door pillar blocks my view looking left. First thing I noticed when sitting in it. The one I sat in had a seat console and a floor console. Made me feel really cramped. The Ford, even with a center console, never has made me feel cramped. I don't care if Chevy or Dodge has a bigger back seat, the front seat is all I'll ever sit in, I don't routinely carry a load of people, and when I do, it's for a short period of time. For me, the available space in the front of the Ford felt bigger than in the Chevy, and that's all that mattered to me.
you want to talk about pull for pull??
are you talking about rear bumper to rear bumper or front to front??
last year a bunch of buddies of mine were messin around so they hooked up a powerstroke vs. a chevy 350
both 3/4 tons
first bumper to bumper then back bumper to each other
let me put it to you like this, the guy driving the stroke was pretty upset
my point of this story is that when you hook bumper to bumper is that TRACTION and WEIGHT on the rear tires are more important than power
if you break the tires you are screwed
and yes we did this on concrete
i thought for sure that the stroke would win, but it was alil bit more of a favor to the 350, yeah the 350, the best small block that was ever built, except for the new ones that are out
and if you dont believe me, come here, there is rubber marks melted into the concrete
You have a juvenile response, when you can't prove your point. Unless you're rich, I don't think you're dumb enough to get into a tug-of-war. I'd like to hear you call your insurance company after that.