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Honda CR-V Maintenance and Repair

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Comments

  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Posts: 934
    The CR-V is NOT the only one that ignites. Or do you have numbers that support that claim?

    True or not it's the only one I have heard about in years. Its the only one one I've seen on the news or tv either.

    Its the only one where I have heard the corp blame the techs.

    Its the only one I have heard the techs blaming the corp.

    Right or wrong Honda has a perception problem. IsellHondas is right. Address the issue before this starts to get really out of hand and starts to costs millions instead of 10s of thousands.

    I still cite the Toyota sludge issue which many naysayers had no impact on Toyota at all. I can not say because the extact impact as I was new to the brand when I opted to wait for the redesigned 02 Camry instead of a leftover 01...with a potential sludge issue. All I can say is Toyota has had rebates on the Camry ranging from $750 - $1250 almost from the beginning. (If only I had waited 6 months!) Now maybe Toyota aways used rebates. I do notice Honda never does...or at least not yet.
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    ...if only the CR-V catches fire. other Hondas might catch fire for sure. but other Hondas aren't on the news for potentially killing people. only the CR-V is.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "Besides the durability, any other problems with tinted window?
    A local shop quotes $195 and life time warranty as long as I owned my vechile."
    - Chong

    Nah. Window tinting has come a long way. It doesn't turn purple like you might see on older cars. And the warranty should cover installation defects like bubbles or wrinkles.

    "That's what Honda says ... but they also say the investigation continues."

    See, that works both ways. Why are you calling for action when all the facts have not been determined? Going off half-cocked isn't going to help anyone.

    "If you have proof that the fires are the result of the work of technicians and only the work of technicians, please share that proof with us."

    There is no proof of anything at this time. We have a fairly modest number of facts, but not enough to paint a clear picture. That said, Technician error is the only explanation with any support in the facts we have thus far.
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    at this point:

    its safe to say "technician error" if you add "due to non-industry standard vehicle design and poor filter quality."
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    Based upon?????????????????????????
  • cybernut04cybernut04 Posts: 98
    No. That's not what I was asking. Why do you keep bringing up the other vehicles (Accord, Element, TSX..) other model years (2002) when you have no clue as to whether or not they prove anything?

    Sorry - I wasn't clear - I went back and re-read my messages, and I wasn't clear at all. You're right - I don't know if there have been any other models in any model year in the Honda line that have ever caught on fire. I have had other Hondas - I pay attention to the news - if there had been stories in the papers and on TV for those other models like there were for the CR-V, it's certainly possible I could have missed those stories.

    The "I don't care" statement comes simply from the fact that I don't drive any other Hondas at the moment, just the CR-V. So if the '85 Civics or the 98 Accords or whatever model had a problem with catching fire, I don't remember hearing about it and I don't care in that I don't own or drive those other models. I care about fires in other Hondas only in relation to the fires we know have happened to '03 and '04 CR-Vs. The investigation centered on only '03 and '04 CR-Vs, and it's logical to ask if any other Hondas have caught fire like this, and even logical to assume - based on lack of any coverage in the media - that no other Honda model/year has had the problem CR-Vs are having.

    True. Which makes your accusations even more frustrating. As Racoon described it, you're adding oil to the fire when you have no clue. You've got nothing but inflammatory statements and nothing to support your claims.

    And is there any information out there to contradict my claims? When this first came up (posting #1326) I said: "Why are CR-Vs - only CR-Vs, and only 2003 and 2004 model years, and only after the first oil change - more susceptible to catching on fire than 1) any other Honda model, 2) any other model year of the CR-V, and 3) any other oil change besides the first?"

    If it would make you feel better, insert "apparently" in there ... "apparently more susceptible to catching on fire ..."

    Does anyone have an answer? If there are other models of Hondas that are more susceptible to catching on fire than the CR-V, I'd really like to know about them! Wouldn't you?

    Except for the fact that you are scared, you have no reason to suspect that Honda is hiding anything. All I'm asking is that you take a more critical approach to the issue before you start throwing around conspiracy theories.

    And I'm asking you to take a more critical approach and not assume that it's just the technicians. There have been several people on this forum who, from the beginning, made it abundently clear that they knew the answer, and it was the fault of the technicians, period. Those individuals have stoutly defended Honda, and/or ignored other possible explanations, and/or belittled the concerns of people who are, quite frankly, scared of burning to death.

    I don't think it's right for people who are expressing legitimate concerns (and yes, fears) to be greeted by "LOL", "whiners", "sky is falling", "WITCH HUNT", and several really insulting and/or insensitive statements: "...if your car goes up in flames, you get a new car anyway. LOL"; "yeah thats it. This is some big organized conspiracy among honda techs to get careless with just a 03-04 models."; "Clueless? Because I'm not hysterical over 35 botched oil changes? LOL"; and my personal favorite, sent in response to "Good luck to you who have not yet caught fire" -- "I don't need luck, I've got brains."
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    Good luck to you who have not yet caught fire" -- "I don't need luck, I've got brains."

    I explained this already. It merely implies I'll do my own oil changes and know I won't have a problem. I don't support Honda, I support the idea that these fires have resulted from poor service.

    Lets review the summary on NHTSA.GOV -

    THIS INVESTIGATION IDENTIFIED 32 INCIDENTS OF OIL FILTER LEAKAGE IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLE POPULATION, WITH 22 RESULTING IN VEHICLE FIRES. ALL OF THE INCIDENTS OCCURRED FOLLOWING OIL CHANGES.

    32 leaks. 22 fires. All after an oil change.

    HONDA'S INVESTIGATION OF 14 OF THE FIRE INCIDENTS DETERMINED THAT "FIVE OIL FILTERS HAD STACKED SEALS (DOUBLE-GASKETING), AND NINE OIL FILTERS HAD DISTORTED OR PINCHED SEALS." ACCORDING TO HONDA, BOTH CONDITIONS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO FOLLOW NECESSARY REPAIR PROCEDURES. STACKED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE OF THE SERVICE TECHNICIAN TO REMOVE THE OLD SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLING THE NEW FILTER AND SEAL. DISTORTED OR PINCHED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO PROPERLY LUBRICATE THE NEW SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. OIL LEAKAGE FROM A STACKED, DISTORTED, OR PINCHED SEAL

    Honda, as a company, investigated 14 of the 22 fires and found technician error in EVERY SINGLE INCIDENT.

    The cause of the 10 oil leaks that did not result in fire were not reported. But, it would be pretty easy to figure that when 14 out of 14 investigated fires pointed directly to improper installation of the filter, that 10 out of 10 of those failures without fire, were also from tech error.

    How much clearer can it be?
  • kathgipkathgip Posts: 39
    Hi, I just bought a 2004 CR-V EX Auto loaded and I love it. The only thing that I do not like is the loud road noise when the vehicle is going above 40 mph. Does anyone know what can be done about it? I heard (from my dealer) that undercoating will cut down substantially on road noise, but I don't know it that is just a sales pitch. He wanted $300 for the undercoating. Does undercoating help? Any suggestions or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    what else do you need? the SAME service is performed on all cars. why should a CRV catch on fire and an Accord NOT catch on fire? why should a CRV catch fire and a Taurus NOT catch fire?

    what is the answer to that question? the answer is that the CRV needs a (trying to find the most positive choice of words here....) "different" servicing that EVERY OTHER CAR on the road.

    that is the fault of HONDA. technically, the technician might have performed an oil change wrong, but there is a specific problem with the design of the car and the quality of the part specific to the CRV, or else all other oil changes on all other cars would result in dangerous fires. the majority of the car-driving public understands that real basic conclusion. that is why Honda is in a bind.
  • robbrobb Posts: 3
    yes, its true this engine design has the possibility of spraying oil
    on to the cat converter, if the person servicing the vehicle fails
    to install the filter correctly, if the filter is done right there
    should be no spraying of oil>
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,719
    I don't think undercoating will help. It is possible that the tires are causing some of the noise, and switching them might help.

    However, the CR-V has a VERY high cD, around .49, and you are going to get some wind noise no matter what. SUVs are high profile.
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    what else do you need? the SAME service is performed on all cars. why should a CRV catch on fire and an Accord NOT catch on fire? why should a CRV catch fire and a Taurus NOT catch fire?

    They don't? Unless you can prove to me that under the EXACT same circumstances an Accord or Taurus wouldn't catch on fire, I don't see how you have a legitimate argument.
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    are you kidding? i mean, really. PROOF is needed?

    the Washington Post wrote an article on the Honda CRV. not an Accord or Taurus. sure, a Taurus can catch on fire after an oil change. an Accord too. but the CRV has the thoroughly documented problems, and Honda is the company with the epidemic on its hands. so it stands to reason that the CRV is the vehicle that has a design defect or a product quality issue, or both.

    i think you know that since the CRV is catching on fire at a much higher rate than car XYZ, that the problem is with the car or its parts, not a person working on it. the media would just as easily pounce on another car if it was on fire as much as the CRV....
  • edunnettedunnett Posts: 553
    Seems your tinting questions got buried in the fire discussion. I just had my Subaru tinted and did some research beforehand so wanted to give you my experience.

    First of all, to reiterate someone else's comments I think the factory tinting is always going to be better in terms of long term viability. After market applications of tint can be prone to peel, bubble and turn purple due to either a sloppy application, poor tint product, or the owner not caring for it properly. Don't believe that "dealer applied tinting" is the same as "factory". Many dealers will have aftermarket tint put on select cars and mark up the sale price accordingly. I'd rather pick my own tinting shop then pay the dealer to. That way YOU have the warranty and control the quality.

    If you do go aftermarket, the average price seems to hover around $50 per window for a good quality job. I paid $225 (asked for a discount) to do 4 side windows and the rear view window.

    Search around and get references for a reputable shop. I called my dealer and asked who they send their cars to, also read local car forums and asked friends. (the same company was named by all three sources so it was a no-brainer for me).

    Research the tint brand names. You want a high quality product with a warranty attached to it - my shop used Madico tints - Madico good notes on the better business bureau.

    Know about the window tinting laws in your state and know how much tint you want. There are some web sites that have charts but your shop should also be able to tell you. Most states allow a good amount of tint on the rear windows but none on the front. The tint amount is reflected in terms of percentage of light that can pass through. 5% is limo black, 20% is dark, 35% is medium, 50% is light. I got my back windows tinted to 20% and the tint looks the same shade as on my husband's factory tinted CR-V EX.

    After getting the tint, don't ever use an ammonia-based cleaner (windex) on the inside of your tinted windows - it can break down the glue that keeps the tint on. Dont roll down thos windows or use the defrost on them for several days until the glue has thoroughly dried. Try not to scratch it loading cargo - that won't be covered on warranty. Save your warranty card!

    Hope that helps.
    Elissa
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    I find equally entertaining (and dumbfounding) that, after what amounts to at the very least 300,000 oil changes 32 resulted in oil leaks, 22 of those leaks resulted in fire, 14 of which were thoroughly investigated and can be traced back to technician error, people still think it's a problem with the vehicle not the techs.

    I'll give you that perhaps some element of these oil filters makes them more prone to failure. I won't give you that it was the CR-Vs fault those filters failed or the CR-Vs fault that the techs failed to check them.
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    "I won't give you that it was the CR-Vs fault those filters failed or the CR-Vs fault that the techs failed to check them."

    If the problem is the filters, then you are right, it isn't the CRV's fault. It is Hondas fault. If the problem is that the technician failed to check them, then it isn't the CRV's fault. But it is still Hondas fault.

    What you aren't understanding is that a technician is not going to ONLY forget to check a CRV filter. They will forget to inspect a filter on other cars as well. But only the CRV is igniting as a result of technician mistakes in disproportionate numbers compared to other makes.

    It all goes back to Honda. They case isn't helped by their other recent problems with recalls. Their perceived quality is not so good anymore, and will continue to get worse until they step up and do/say the right thing. Lets all hope they step up so our resale values don't keep decreasing...

    Isn't this boring yet?
  • chongchong Posts: 10
    Hi, Edunnett:

    Thanks a lot for all the suggestions.
    The dealer recommends a local shop and from what I have heard,
    they are doing a really good job. They are using llumar from http://www.llumar.com/.

    Thanks again.
    Chong
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    Maybe their perceived quality isn't so good with you but, their actual quality and reliability have been quite good with me.

    I never said Honda had no fault in this fiasco. Obviously if the fires result from a service done at their shop, they are stuck holding the ball. And, if they approved a part for their vehicle that fails they again are at fault.

    What you aren't understanding is that a technician is not going to ONLY forget to check a CRV filter. They will forget to inspect a filter on other cars as well. But only the CRV is igniting as a result of technician mistakes in disproportionate numbers compared to other makes.

    I understand all of that. Additionally I understand that short of holding each technicians hand, there isn't much more Honda can do. If you want 100% certainty that you car is never going to catch on fire, I suggest you drain the fuel and oil, then remove the battery.
  • theracoontheracoon Posts: 666
    The "I don't care" statement comes simply from the fact that I don't drive any other Hondas...

    When this first came up (posting #1326) I said: "Why are CR-Vs - only CR-Vs, and only 2003 and 2004 model years, and only after the first oil change - more susceptible to catching on fire than 1) any other Honda model, 2) any other model year of the CR-V, and 3) any other oil change besides the first?"


    To me, these statements appear contradictory. Either you are interested in whether there are other vehicles that catch fire after someone incorrectly installs an oil filter, or you aren't interested.

    And I'm asking you to take a more critical approach and not assume that it's just the technicians.

    And we're asking you not to automatically assume it's a design defect, and therefore Honda's fault.

    The fact that the NHTSA closed the investigation shows that they, at least, aren't concerned that it's a defect in the vehicle that requires a safety recall. Honda has stated that they are still investigating to determine why it appears that only 2003-2004 CR-Vs sometimes catch fire after an oil leak caused by an incorrectly replaced filter.
  • kathgipkathgip Posts: 39
    Hi Stevedebi,
    You said that the CR-V has a VERY high cD, around 49......what is that? I am not a car techie, so bear with my ignorance. Also, I have Bridgestone tires on my car......what are the best to cut down on road noise? Thanks for your input.
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