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Comments
Most of this is unnessary, so please go elsewhere and quit littering the site.
Those with tundras, thinking about buying tundras, or with meaning comments would really be appreciated by me
I happen to live in the deep south where people are as rabid about brand affiliation as anywhere, but most people don't concern themselves with criticizing others. I have plenty of friends driving all makes of pickups...foreign and domestic. Only now has a foreign make come out with a reasonable alternative.
Toyota won't break any sales records, and the tundra is not necessarily superior to other trucks.....but it'll more than satisfy my needs.
Damn it's quick, Man I wish I bought one of those", and so on and so on. Well I'm going to take a ride to the beach and pick up some women, see yahs!
As for the F-150, I really cant complain about it to much except the back bench in the cab folds down instead of up. I was really impressed with the way the F-150 drove over bumps and pot-holes in the road. It was as if they weren't even there. Also, I was satisfied with the acceleration, and noise level of the F-150. I am just curios if the F-150 will be as reliable as a Toyota. I have talked to a few people who own the new styled F-150 and claim they love theirs and have had no ploblems.
I have known people who owned the T-100 and used it as a work truck and commented that it feel apart. They now own F-150's.
I currently own a 84 Toyota Celica with 202,000 miles on it (22r motor). Besides, regular maintenance, I have only had to replace 1st and 2nd gear.
I noticed that a limited slip diff is not available for the Tundra but will be later. Is it necessary to have the limited slip diff and in what circumstances do you need it. Also, can the bed of a Tundra hold a sheet of plywood.
I am currently thinking about buying the F-150. Can anyone convince me otherwise. After owning a Toyota, and not having owned a Ford, it is a tough decision. Has anyone had any bad experiences with the new styled F-150's.
Despite these little details I really like my truck, the power and ride is excellent, it's very quiet inside, and I like the uniqueness of it.I got about 16 mpg on my last tank of gas, an improvement on the 14 I got the first tank. I hope Toyota's reputation for reliability holds true which is the main reason I chose it over all the other nice trucks out there.
BTW, it really pays to shop around, prices varied about $3000 for the same truck, I got mine for $1761 under MSRP.
In case you don't know, Isuzu is part of GM and their trucks/SUV's are very related if not the same as those of GM's.
Pro:
1. Excellent build quality
2. Quiet and powerful
3. Typical Toyota: simple and functional
Con:
1. Experiencing vibration problem (seems to be from rear. It vibrated enough at 65-75mph that I pulled onto the service lane of the freeway as I thought I was experiencing the start of a flat tire (not true). It doesn't do this all the time at these speeds. It may be a resonance problem with my particular tires/pressure/wheels - just guessing. Feels like a bad shock but recent dealer inspection turned up nothing. Dealer baffled: requested help from factory technical specialist. Hope to hear from Toyota this week.
2. Center seat console locking position is inclined from vertical: about 20 degrees toward rear- 5 degrees more than front typical seat back position. This robs rear seat room and makes center seat position almost useless. I'll wait to hear if others have same opinion before Toyota hears about this (dentent position error?). Toyota should have had several dentent positions for the armrest (like my Previa) to avoid this problem.
Also, when console is folded down, this eliminates center sitting position in the rear. The console design needs improvement.
3. Wheel paint job is poor quality: poor/no final color coat paint coverage in slot cut-outs and outer rim edge.
Owner Preferences:
1. Prefer to have wider window ledge for resting my left arm when driving.
2. Owner Preference: Cargo light controls should allow driver to control when it's on/off - it doesn't need to go on all the time when exiting the vehicle.
Summary:
I have owned many Toyotas over the years. I best can describe the Tundra as a Powerful Camry Truck. I'm confident that any operational and content problems will be quickly corrected to my satisfaction.
But from the rear, it's cute, but small. The cargo box is shallow, by at least two inches compared to the domestic full size. It's about three inches narrower, and nearly a foot shorter in wheelbase than the shortest F150. The tailgate looks skimpy, but maybe it isn't.
The payload rating is great, but inflated probably. Comparing the springs in the back to my Chevy, same number but narrower and thinner.
Spoog, about the interior....flame on me if it makes you feel better, but there is a grab handle over the passenger door, instead of the a-pillar like Toyota. Sounds like you've not been inside a GMC yourself. Because compared to the Tundra, you sit farther back from a larger windshield, there's more room, and better seats. Seats with integral seat belts, not hanging from the ceiling and floor ala Tundra. Seats with arm rests and headrests that fold up into the contour of the seat, instead of looking like pinball flippers stuck on the side. Putting those cup-holders on the floor of the Tundra doesn't make much sense either. If you don't kick it over first, the transmission tunnel melts your ice.
Good to hear some real world reports of the Tundra. keep them coming so we get a better idea of what they are all about.
To people intent on ripping the Tundra: remember the Chevy owners came here first to complain about the Tundra. I haven't seen any Tundra people over in the Chevy or Ford or Dodge forums telling them how great the Tundra is. Just go read the Chevy/Sierra forums for problems, likes and dislikes. Same with the Ford and Dodge people who haven't been as vehement about their dislike of the Tundra.
Greg Hoppes
I tried to be as objective as I could in this round of shopping, and the Dodge RAM, with the $1000 rebate, actually seemed like the best value. Plus my wife would qualify for the $400 recent graduate discount. Okay, before y'all put me on the rotisserie rack, notice I said "best value", not best truck. The Ram has the worst performing V8, at least on paper.
I've just about given up on buying a Tundra for a couple of years. I was told that Toyota won't be making ANY 5-speeds for at least another 6-8 months, probably a year. Even if the salepeople were blowing smoke, it looks like slim pickin's for quite a while to come. I may just have to lease something else or hang on to my Tacoma for another couple of years.
Back to the regular scheduled flame war.
I signed up to three internet price services. Two were a complete no reply at all. And the last contacted me and didn't have the one is I was looking....but said he will call me back in 15 minutes with a qoute...do I need to repeat myself? I had one dealer who I felt like he really wanted my business. So I went up to see him. He was tied up at another location but sent someone else down to talk to me..A lot of good that did..you know how it feels after talking to somebody for a minute and you realize this guys not playing with a full deck.. I left there after ten minutes and no one even asked my name! I now understand why Toyota came in almost last for customer buying satisfaction.
So I did finally find a access cab with captain chairs to look at. It was a 2x2 v6 ...dam....Why every time I look at this truck I get more and more turned off....come on admit it. I can't be the only one....sure I want it for the engine,looks,reliability and the thought that its the "New kid on the block"...but that's it...Yes I'm spoiled. I'm driving a loaded 96 Pathfinder SE and every time I get back into it I say why do I want that thing!!! The overall impression of the interior is not impressing at all. The center console with the captain seats was right out of a Rebel snap-it model kit. Ok its a truck...but I can't forget the satisfied feeling I have when I sit in the GM's. I know....shut up and go buy the GM....Hey I really want to buy a Tundra but Toyota won't let me!!! My only chance left is the Limited. I really don't like the SR5's cloth seats. Dealer today told me that the captain seats are different (in a better way) then the SR5. What that means I don't know. He also said only Leather will be coming in. But maybe they could order one with cloth for me if it was loaded with running boards, bedliner...ect. and I pay MSPR. Okkkkkk I know it going to take some work to get this truck for what I want to pay but do you know how hard it is not to tell theses A>>>hole dealers were they can stick there Tundra!! I'll wait for a limited I guess.
Anybody know were I can get a V8 that will fit my Pathfinder??
We drove the Limited about 15 miles, and also drove an SR5 4X4 without the Offroad Package, to see the difference. They both rode extremely well, with the OffRoad Package being somewhat stiffer, but still an excellent highway ride. After dealing about a half hour with them (past closing time) we bought the Limited for $2100 under MSRP, and that including the dealer adding in Running Boards and Tonneau Cover. The Limited was only on the lot about 8 hours, before we took it that night to its new home.
First mileage check (after running out the dealer's full tank) was 15.1 mpg, which was a 50/50 mix of city/highway, but with air on constantly. I expect better mileage after the Tundra's breakin period, and after installation of the tonneau cover.
Dislikes: Definitely the rear seat back. Straight up and down, and not comfortable.
Likes: Exceptionally quiet truck, very smooth ride - especially for a 4X4. Excellent throttle response. Sounds great with the windows down and you get on it!! Have received loads of oohs and aahs from the people at work.
I have been a loyal Toyota owner for over 20 years. I'm in the process of adding siren/radio/emergency strobe lighting to my Tundra, and if you to check out what Toyota Quality and Workmanship is really about, just tear out the lower half of the entire dash as I have, and you'll understand why there are no rattles. Superb Quality!!
I am well pleased with my Tundra Limited, and am anxious to hear from other Limited owners. I have waited almost a whole year for the Tundra Limited, as I first saw the Limited Prototype at the Indian State Fair last year, and knew then it would be my next truck. I guess that since they were not expected to come out until September, no one preordered a Limited, and I just lucked out in getting what I wanted this soon.
I will provide an update to the forum for a 1000 mile report.
I enjoy reading people's comments on their ownership experience with the Tundra. Keep it coming.
I'm also happy to see the domestic vs. Tundra rhetoric is quieting down. My advice: Just ignore it. And if you're going to criticize, don't be insulting to others.
I'm friends with the owner of the local Ford dealer. They never give me grief when I show up in my Honda Odyssey. They're very honest about their products, both good and not so good.
Well, I can honestly say this truck stops better and easier with the ABS than without. The ABS also saved me some money on insurance! That's a nice change after spending nearly $30,000!
The ABS improves break time and makes it relatively smooth. This option is priced at $630.00. Well worth it! I believe dealer cost is actually $539. There is a difference!
I have only put 100 miles on my truck but love everything about it! It IS the Lexus of trucks! I hope it continues to impress! The salesman is just now bringing my truck back to me. They are adding 17 inch Good Year Tires, Fancy alloy wheels and window tint. I'm like a kid in a candy store! I can't wait to see how it looks! Hopefully the new tires and wheels will not effect the spedometer ... TOO MUCH.)
BTW ... When buying your new Tundra's, did the finance people offer a "Residual Loan?" Did anyone else do this or does anyone know exactly how good a "Loan" option this is?
Truckin,
Todd~~~
So I'm going to email Toyota and explain to them how they will earn my money: I'll buy a loaded Tundra when Toyota offers the limited slip/locking diff. Or when I absolutely must replace my current vehicle. I'll also demand the keyless entry and a deeper bed, two other major concerns of mine, but I just can't bear to buy a 4X4 without a limited slip . . . as one other person said, it doesn't make sense. And that's something they should bring to market as soon as possible.
As a side note, I know that they offer their factory alarm system . . . does that include keyless entry, as most alarms do? I haven't looked at the brochures so closely that I can be sure I'm not missing something. Since folks are saying that keyless entry isn't available, does this mean that it isn't available with the alarm system?
Tuck
There a lot of others that have purchased this truck, have any other seen this problem when the passenger seat is empty?
1. Over-the-Rail bedliner
2. Power convenience package
3. 6-speaker CD/Radio/Cassette sound system
4. Heavy Duty starter package + anti-chip paint
5. ABS
I wanted to order a Limited with Oak leather interior, but decided that this one was close enough. Got it for 26,700 and $2000 for my 150,000 mile, 9 year old Nissan 4x4 850 model. The dealer will be adding keyless entry, alarm, and vehicle disable option from a Camry Solara for the price I paid.
I'll add aftermarket leather in a few months if I really want it. Dealer will do it for cost - $1200.
I've got 600 easy-going miles on it, and some observations to share:
PRO:
1. Power! Nice V8 rumble at idle if you're standing near the tailpipe. Refuses to cruise below 70 mph. Acceleration *explodes* from 40-70 mph, and keeps climbing. I bet the Tundra could do 130mph if it weren't for the governor.
2. Black looks great, posing an 'Urban Assault Vehicle' look. It's a head turner in public, particularly amongst full-size truck drivers.
Los Angeles eco-vehicle drivers get the Hell out of your way when they see your skull-high bumper coming up in their rear-view. Took it to Angels vs. Padres game yesterday ... The beer-drinking tailgate party fans oohed and aahed over it when I drove it slow through the parking lot.
Right on.
3. What a quiet cabin and smooth ride -- Just like my girlfriend's Lexus LS400.
4. Comfortable front seating. On the two occasions I test drove it, I thought the seating was just satisfactory. Since owning it, I reclined the driver's seat just a tad and found a perfect sweet spot and steering wheel height adjustment I love.
CON:
1. Yes, there is a hideous blind spot behind the driver's left shoulder in the Access Cab model. The outside mirror helps, but I find myself doing the 'turkey-look' behind and to the left when changing lanes. Maybe this is a good thing?
2. Rear seating is only for two kids or a single adult. The adult can ride comfortably if they place their butt directly in the middle of the rear bench seat. Actually, in that position, it's pretty comfortable -- but the driver loses the interior rear-view mirror view.
Will come back into this forum later on and give you all an update.
PS: Thank God that the domestic zealots have cooled their jets. Could it be that GM just recalled 1.1 million 4x4 trucks with ABS?
-ckheads!
First, when I purchased the truck, the truck had 16 inch tires and wheels. With these wheels the truck road VERY smooth and I noticed little or no vibration in the armrest. My wife swears that it did!
Well, as of yesterday at 5PM I had new 17 inch wheels and tires exchanged out by the dealer from one other Tundra to mine! They were identical except for color and leather seats!
As soon as I started to pull out to drive home I heard this terrible noise!!! The tires were HITTING my mud flaps! Oh Brother! OK! So I decide to drive on and upon getting on the interstate, I notice this TERRIBLE vibration in my armrest and in the steering wheel! Could this possibly be THE problem that we are all discussing?! Does anyone else, who has a vibration have bigger tires and wheels than 16 inches?
This vibration is most noticable upon excelerations between 58-60 miles an hour! After I get past this speed, the ride is smooth again! It mostly happens at these speeds and excelerating only!
I did not notice this before! You can bet your bottom dollar that I have already arranged a switch back to the 16 inch tires and alloys!
I can handle a little vibration in the armrest but this was ridiculous for such an expensive and new truck!
I damn near cried when I heard the noise and felt this vibration!
Do yourselves a favor and check your tire sizes! AND ... check the vibration when excelerating at mid-range speeds!
I hope this saves someone else the grief I've been through this week!
Todd~~~
", but Ijust can't bear to buy a 4X4 without a limited
slip . . . as one other person said, it doesn't
make sense. "
Well, since the Tundra is part time full wheel drive, it would be nice to have the limited slip.
The limited slip doesnt really help the 4wheel drive offroad.
Limited slip was originally designed for cars.
It's use is helpful in *2* wheel drive, especially for rear wheel drive vehicles.
When its slick and rainy on the streets is its best use. But offroad?
Thats what lockers are for.
Limited slip isnt a neccesity in a truck if you know how to drive.
I thought that the Tundra 4wd system engaged all 4 tires, whereas others like Jeep Grand Cherokee Quadratrac sense wheel slippage and divert torque to other wheel.
Could someone please explain in more detail the concepts of limited slip and locking axles as compared to the Tundra???
Thanks, Tim
please explain why this is such a desired option.
thanks.
A standard differential axle (rear on 4x2, front and rear on 4x4) allows one wheel to turn at different speed than the other one. This is what allows you to turn the vehicle (in a curve, the outside wheel turns faster and covers more ground than the inside wheel). The standard differential applies equal torque to both wheels no matter what the level of traction; therefore, the wheel with the least traction will tend to spin if the force required to move the vehicle is greater than the friction force that keeps the tire from spinning. In this case, the tire with the worst traction is your limiting factor.
In the case of a standard 4x4, when you shift into 4 wheel drive, you simple engage the transfer case (at the output of the transmission) to the front axle (on most current models this also engages the front wheels to the front differential ring and pinion gear, i.e. auto locking hubs). In this case, if you are in very slippery conditions, you will have one front wheel spinning and one rear wheel spinning. However, with a pickup, the front axle usually has much more weight over it than the rear axle which results in much better traction on the front. Therefore, with a 4x4, your traction is not limited by the rear wheel with the worst traction, but typically, by the front wheel with the worst traction. Note that engaging 4 wheel drive does not lock all 4 wheels together. If it did then you would not be able to turn the vehicle, unless it was equipped with viscous couplings.
This is the type of axles (rear on 4x2, front and rear on 4x4) currently available as standard equipment on almost all trucks as far as I know, including the Tundra.
In a limited slip differential, a clutch pack (similar to the wet clutch in a motorcycle) is installed that minimizes the difference that the wheels are turning by transferring some of the torque from the faster turning wheel to the slower or non turning wheel. This type axle allows some minor differences in wheel speed, i.e. when making a curve, but also helps to transfer torque from a spinning wheel to the wheel with the better traction. In my opinion this is fairly desireable in a 2 wheel drive truck since the rear axle typically has little weight on it the tires spin easily on wet or slippery surfaces. I don't think that a limited slip axle makes that much difference on a 4x4, since the the limited slip axle is usually only installed on the rear axle which typically has less traction than the front axle. In my experience with 4x4s with limited slip, it has allowed me to get through some areas without having to shift into 4x4, but on todays trucks all that takes is the press of a button or the shift of a lever. I'm sure that if you were in deep mud or on ice that a 4x4 with limited slip would perform somewhat better than one without. But note that a limited slip typically requires more frequent oil changes and is somewhat more complex than a standard axle and is therefore more likely to require repairs, especially if you keep the truck for >100,000 miles.
The only locking axle that I am familiar with is one that I had on the rear of my 1983 GMC S-15 Jimmy 4x4. It works similar to a limited slip, except that instead of a clutch pack, it uses flyweights and gears. When the flyweights sense that one wheel is turning significantly faster than the other one, it locks the rear wheels together, and I mean LOCKS them together. When the wheels locked together, you could barely if at all turn the truck. This usually meant stopping and backing up to get the load off the gears so that the differential would unlock. This can also make for interesting driving on snow/ice if you are still in 2 wheel drive because when a wheel spins and locks both wheels together it can cause both back wheels to break free and pass the front end!
Hope this helps somewhat.
Arkie6
I tow a 4000 lb boat up steep and sometimes slippery ramps. Let's imagine that I am having difficulty getting the boat up the ramp even in 4wd. Does lack of limited slip cause lots of spinning on one side with little or no torque applied to the opposite wheel????
I currently use an 87 Ramcharger and have little difficulty but I don't know if I have limited slip.
Thank you----all your comments are appreciated.
thanks for the info, I can see why someone
might want a limited-slip differential.
"yes you want and need limited-slip even if you buy
the ford or dodge versions of it. GMC calls theirs
Locking rear differential and its a 270 dollar
option and it works better than the Ford or Dodge
version of limited-slip. It was something the
salesman was quick to point out to me right away
and he was right. Toyota claims they've built an
upscale, full size truck, but it just isn't(not
yet). My Locking differential just worked great
last winter in my Sierra and I will never buyanother truck without it. I "
Citroen you really don't know what you are talking about. A locking rear diff is COMPLETELY different from a limited slip.
You really cant use the locker on dry surfaces.
A LS, OTOH, is a toque-transfer limiting device. It is either accomplished by inexpensive clutch packs, or through viscous coupling, or via mechanical sun-planetary gearing devices like the Quaife differential.
Regarding towing a boat: I have an 18' bass boat w/150hp engine and trailer that I estimate weighs 3000-4000#. I pull it with a Chevy S-10 Extended Cab 4X4 with a 5 spd that does not have limited slip or locking rear axle. I have launched it at various boat ramps and never had any wheel slippage when in 4X4. I never try to pull the boat out in 2WD. I always pull the transfer case into 4X4 low range since I have the 5 speed trans, which allows me to pull the boat out with little or no applied throttle (without this you almost need three feet - brake+clutch+accelerator - to take off on a steep ramp with a load).
Without limited slip, the torque thats applied to the spinning wheel is also applied to the non-spinning wheel; however, this usually isn't much on a hard slippery surface since the amount of friction between the tire and the road is greatly reduced when the tire breaks free and starts spinning. This is why it is better to gradually apply power and attempt to prevent wheel slippage in the first place. Also, the fact that both wheels are getting equal torque is why you can sometimes get out of a slippery situation by gradually appling the emergency brake. This forces more torque to be applied to the spinning wheel which results in more torque being applied to the non-spinning wheel that has better traction.
Now whether or not it really works better than what Dodge or Ford built, well there I would probably agree there is no difference. They are all similar.
On another point, Arkie6 is right about using the parking brake to to transfer some torque to the side that's slipping.
I had a 1991 Nissan 4x4 that had no limited slip in it and it wasn't really necessary. I had a limited slip in a 1995 Nissan 4x4, and it wasn't bad but I never really thought it was a must have. On snow/ice slickened roads it would lock up and the tendency was for the rear end to kick out in the direction of the spinning wheel. Once I was aware of it I didn't have a problem with it. It wasn't bad just different. I have the limited slip in my 1998 Pfinder and it kicks a little bit when it locks up but not as much as the truck since there is a little more weight on the rear axle.
Greg Hoppes
See, you can have your cake and eat it too.
HiC
Here's the quote: "yes you want and need limited-slip even if you buy the ford or dodge versions of it. GMC calls theirs Locking rear differential..."
Maybe it's me who's wrong. I've taken apart the GM 7.5 differential on my Camaro, and it had an Auburn limited slip carrier inside. I don't remember what GM "called" it.
I guess until someone takes the new GM rear end apart, maybe we have to assume it is a true locker, because they do call it that on the window sticker.