Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Help Me Choose!

14445474950122

Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    You are right, he's not going to be convinced otherwise, so I'm going to quit showing reports and making statements refuting him.

    "Most reliable cars in Germany" do not equal "most reliable cars" in America. Many reports will show you that.
  • "Most reliable cars in Germany" do not equal "most reliable cars" in America. Many reports will show you that.

    That's true, but what makes the difference...why same brands of cars are rated so differently?...It probably comes from the fact that in Consumer Reports one of the most often reported problems with German cars in America are related to cup holders or to difficulty in using controls(like i-drive)which count(incredibly) as much as a transmission replacement. In Europe these things are not considered "car problems". Is just wrong to present a car as unreliable because people don't find the angle where the cup-holders are placed, right or the existence of a system like I-drive(which by the way started to be used extensively in the auto industry) as a "problem". I'll go with the BMW with its crappy cup-holders instead of going with Honda .. a crappy car with great cup-holders. I guess each one with his priorities.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'll go with the BMW with its crappy cup-holders instead of going with Honda .. a crappy car with great cup-holders. I guess each one with his priorities.

    Honda = crappy car with cupholders?

    Most incredibly laughably baseless statement of the year. :)
  • bmw55bmw55 Posts: 15
    I have one bit of advice. If you're getting a German car make sure you have a good 7 yr. 100K mi. extended warranty; and by the way, don't keep it after the warranty runs out. You could easily pay in the 8th yr more for repairs than the car is worth.
    My example: I just sold my 2000 BMW 323i with 54K miles, in mint condition. Reason: Many owners on the BMW forums reveal that this model has a nasty habit of the transmission self-destructing at anything greater than 40K miles. Cost: $5000 minimum, IF you can find the trans. They're failing so fast there is a shortage of these trans. in the U.S. (the trans was made by a GM subsidiary in France; it is not used any more).
    Rather than be stranded for several months I bought a '07 Lexus IS250 which you should consider (or a IS350 if you're interested in tremendous performance). I personally like the 35 mpg on trips and the performance of the IS250 is completely satisfactory for me. I know Lexus is coming out with a coupe version of the IS; spy pictures I've seen show it to be a great looking auto coming this fall.
    My son has a '06 BMW 325i sport option w/ manual shift. A tremendously satifying car, drives great, fabulous quality, but I'm sure he will sell it when his warranty runs out.
    Best of luck in your search.
  • Why all the Honda bashing? For years I have been given a Civic or Accord to drive while my old Audi 200 was at the dealership for scheduled maintenace - it rarely needed repairs.

    Anyway, I had an Accord for over a month one time (parts for the old Audi were getting hard to come by). After a while, I realized why people buy them: they are competant in every way. They run smoothly, they handle well, the MPG was good, good brakes, etc. Everything about it was competant.

    But here's the deal - it isn't so much a car as it is a transportation bubble. There was no particular character or feel to it. The Audi was a machine and demanded that you participate in its operation. The Honda was more like sitting in a little shell and watching the world go by as you get from point A to point B. In other words, it's an ideal car for people who are not into cars and driving. And there's nothing wrong with that - Honda doesn't pretend the Accord is anything but reliable transportation.

    So no reason to bash it - maybe you just desire more from a car than sitting in a moving bubble. I'd certainly buy one for my wife or kids. But for me, I'll stick with Audi and BMW. And maybe Mercedes when I get real old.

    These German cars are expensive to buy and maintain. If you do maintain them properly, they are very reliable. So if you can't afford to do this, don't buy one. There's nothing worse than seeing a beautiful luxury vehicle that is not properly cared for.
  • trewquistrewquis Posts: 30
    Thanks all.

    Actually, the cup holders on the Prelude are pretty miserable; they are right behind the gear shift lever making them pretty unusable with a manual transmission. On the other hand, it actually is a fun car to drive. In that category, the 4 wheel drive 328xi with AT that I test drove didn't offer a whole lot over the Prelude, although it did have a drink warmer/cooler.

    A 350 IS Coupe with a manual transmission would be almost irresistable. Unfortunately, I don't see it on the horizon.

    If I limited it to 100,000 miles, it would be about 5 years the way I drive; I'd like to get about 7 years out of my next car but would not throw good money after bad.

    Realistically, I can afford $40K and the maintenance, I'm just very conflicted about whether this is how I want to spend my money, or how many dollars and potential hassles it's worth to me to have some excitement now and again on otherwise routine trips.
  • This is the Subaru forum not the German vs. Japanese Forum. However, if you have constructive comments about the Subaru feel free to join.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,366
    trwquis, if you can't see/feel the difference between the BMW and the Honda, you have your answer.

    Regards,
    OW
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    :) Um, its not a "subaru" forum per se. Check out all the cars involved in the discussion by looking at the cars listed at the top of the page with the ratings next to them.
  • "So no reason to bash it - maybe you just desire more from a car than sitting in a moving bubble. I'd certainly buy one for my wife or kids. But for me, I'll stick with Audi and BMW. And maybe Mercedes when I get real old."

    The new Hondas(and I am referring only at the ones sold on the American market))are really poorly built cars with serious reliability problems. The old reliable Honda is long gone.
    I'm surprised you would buy a bad car with poor safety features like Honda for your family while you keep driving BMWs and Audis. Do you think they would not enjoy premium brands? ;) I was certainly happy when my parents bought me a used Mercedes as first car.

    "These German cars are expensive to buy and maintain. If you do maintain them properly, they are very reliable. So if you can't afford to do this, don't buy one. There's nothing worse than seeing a beautiful luxury vehicle that is not properly cared for."

    Funny thing... the Japanese cars are the ones more expensive to maintain in Europe. Parts and service.
    I totally agree with the rest of your statement.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The new Hondas(and I am referring only at the ones sold on the American market))are really poorly built cars with serious reliability problems.

    Again, with the baseless statements. Do you ever stop?

    Consumer Reports, which surveys hundreds of thousands of owners every year, as well as tests vehicles themselves, recommends most (if not all?) Hondas as "good buys" and have reliability above average the majority of the time.

    I was certainly happy when my parents bought me a used Mercedes as first car.

    Hmm... interesting.
  • trewquistrewquis Posts: 30
    Well, before we went off message here on cup holders etc., I asked the question about whether it was the four wheel drive and AT that sucked some of the life out of the BMW. Our Honda hater made the pitch for the 335i with manual transmission which was helpful. So we still have a spectrum of possibilities and costs.

    In any event, while the 9 year old Prelude and 328xi with AT have indistinguishable 0-60 times it was obvious that the BMW had a lot more to offer in many regards - the obviously finer appointments and touches, the nice leather, etc, and the very grounded, linear feel - the steering, the power delivery, etc. all felt exactly the same at 20 and 70 mph; but it lacked a visceral feel. On the highway I went to pass someone and it was in the wrong gear and it just hung there. So how much better is the rear wheel drive MT version?

    Thanks
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,366
    FWIW, the 330xi has 30 ponies more and the passing with the AT is just fine (My Lincoln LS had a 2 second time delay to down shift!!). I am sure with the 328, you need more pedal to downshift when called for. Should be enough power but remember, with MT, YOU have the control. That's the beauty...no guess work.

    Best of luck on your choice.

    Regards,
    OW
  • "On the highway I went to pass someone and it was in the wrong gear and it just hung there. So how much better is the rear wheel drive MT version?"

    328 AT is made by GM(only the transmission) ... and anyway BMWs were never known for having great performance with AT(except SMG). I dare to say that anybody buying a BMW with AT is more into getting a badge than wanting to experience in full the performance of a BMW car. Also, unless you really need the four wheel drive there is no reason not to get BMW best... the rear wheel drive, which is so much more fun to drive than the 4 wheel. Another thing, was the BMW you tested with the sport package? Because without, is way to soft for a BMW.
    328 with MT, rear wheel drive, sport package ...feels like a different car.
  • "Consumer Reports, which surveys hundreds of thousands of owners every year, as well as tests vehicles themselves, recommends most (if not all?) Hondas as "good buys" and have reliability above average the majority of the time."

    Yes, but like I said before broken cup holders(BMW), broken transmissions(Honda)or engine sludge(Toyota)are counted the same in Consumer Reports.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,906
    If someone has taken the CR survey, they would know that is not accurate. The survey measures serious problems with automobiles.

    Granted, someone may think their cupholder is a serious issue, but given that they survey thousands of owners, I'd put my money on their scientific interpretation of the data.. rather than someone else's anecdotal experience.

    And.. if it's anecdotal data you are after, you need only read the forums here on Edmunds to find that Honda and Toyota are considered infinitely more reliable than any of the German makes.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,366
    Have you driven the 328xi or the 330 xi?

    Regards,
    OW
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    You beat me to it... thanks.

    German cars feel very solid, and typically have high quality interiors (I frequented an Audi A6 when I was dating my now-ex girlfriend - it was beautifully detailed and well-made). It also had lots of electrical gremlins (and was her dad's dealer demo, so less than 6-months old). Great car if you have the time (and after the warranty expires, the money) to spend at the dealership. Many people opt to make that sacrifice. Nothing wrong with that, its a personal choice.
  • kcleukkcleuk Posts: 39
    I am trying to decide between a 2007 Lexus IS250 or the 2007 Acura TL.

    I like the TL since it has bluetooth as standard while the Lexus needed the navigation.

    If comparing fully loaded with navigation for both models, I like the Voice COmmand on temeprature/audio/navi on the TL. However, I like the Intelligent key and Start Engine Button on the IS.

    So help!!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,366
    Which one tickles your heart strings?

    That's the one to get.

    Regards,
    OW
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    IS250 is more equal to an Acura TSX... similar power, and the IS250 is actually smaller than the TSX, and a lot smaller than the TL.
  • "Have you driven the 328xi or the 330 xi?"

    I don't compare cars I don't drive. Unlike other people that base their opinions on what they read in magazines, my opinions are based on my experience with the cars I'm talking about. So yes, I did drive the 328xi. I'll take the rear drive any day unless the I live in a place where it snows a lot.
    It might be a personal preference but I find most of the 4 wheel drive cars made by the manufacturers that make usually rear wheel drive cars boring. I might shock some people by saying this but I thought even the Porsche 911 looses a lot of the excitement with the 4 wheel drive model.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Just bought an SE V6 Accord. An excellent car indeed. Handles well, very quick, and solid. Has every safety feature I can think of. I have absolutely no idea what safety issues, or reliability issues you are talking about. I did a lot of research before buying. It is possible that the BMW, which is another $11K to buy, may indeed be better handling, though I am very pleased with the abilities of the Accord overall. I suppose, with unlimited resource of money, there are many other choices. This car, not unlike my first car ever owned, I paid for myself. Actually bought my own bikes and motorcycles too, so bang for the buck is pretty important to me. I like the steering feel, the cornering, and total value of my new car. With a 0-60 of 6.6 seconds, and up to 29 MPG, with standard VSC, what's not to like? I may get another RWD sports car or classic some day, but for now, I am happy with a good all-around performer auto.
    -Loren
  • trewquistrewquis Posts: 30
    I test drove the 328xi AT because that was the only 328 coupe they had. I don't think it had the SP but on the coupe the sport suspension is standard and the SP is only a mild tire and wheel upgrade. I thought the suspension was fine, zero body roll but not jarring.

    We get some snow and ice here, but it's only usually 5-10 days a year where it's a significant problem; this year there weren't any serious snow days. So to me, I don't think that's enough to justify four wheel drive if it sucks the life out of the car. Others around here seem to disagree, the dealers here have virtually all 328xi's with cold weather package and AT.

    I'll see if I can find a 328i MT to test drive.

    By the way, the 330xi is no more, so that's not an option.

    Thanks all.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,366
    Eye of the beholder. I'd take a C4S anytime! Send it on down!!

    Or an RS4 would be fine, on the other hand.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,366
    So to me, I don't think that's enough to justify four wheel drive if it sucks the life out of the car.

    Yeah, my car has died with the x-drive. RIP...Now it can really fly, Spirit in the Sky!

    Regards,
    OW
  • kavoomkavoom Posts: 181
    No need to look over there. That is one heck of a deal. Go for it. You have quite a few nice extras and that is going for about 500 less than an 07 X manual without all those extras.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    The cup-holders are probably the only thing more reliable in a Japanese car vs a German car.

    I hope your joking about this. As far as Honda and Toyota go, they are basically bullet proof and "run-forever" vehicles. The engines last forever. There is no reason your TYPICAL Japanese car can't last 15 years and 300K miles. That is just average for a Honda or Toyota. Your repair bills should be under $1,000 typically, for 300,000 miles on a Japanese car. On a German car... you'll pay thousands and thousands quite regularly even before you hit 100K. However... after 100K who knows.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    The new Hondas(and I am referring only at the ones sold on the American market))are really poorly built cars with serious reliability problems. The old reliable Honda is long gone.

    Then why did my Wife's '05 Civic EX exhibit flawless build quality and zero warranty visits in the 24 months and 26K miles prior to being totalled by a 2004 Jetta?

    The Jetta looked like it was close (if not completely) to being totalled as well, having rear ended the Honda. By the way, the Civic was safe enough to have kept my wife from being seriously injured (even though it was supposedly hit by such a superiorly built German Jetta). All she had was some bad bruising from the seat belt and seat sides.

    I would venture to say that her Civic was built and assembled in Japan. I would probably bet the farm the Honda you bought was made in the USA Fasterthanyou? ;)

    That could have an impact, those Japanese guys have been building great cars a lot longer than any American.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    Furthermore, I drove it for 4 years and 2 months, and for 65,000 miles. I never got stranded or broken down where I was in a situation that I had to call a tow truck.

    It was running like new still at 50 months of age with 65,000 miles. It was not bulletproof, but it was extremely dependable mechanically.

    I think one thing people overestimate is maintenance. An unreliable car will be undependable no matter how well you maintain it. A Toyota Corrolla will reach 300K miles no matter how poorly you maintain it (to a certain extent; nothing ludicrously bad).
Sign In or Register to comment.