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Comments
If you are considering a 6 make sure you test drive an Accord before signing on the dotted line. But obviously people are already considering the Accord without any outside influence.
our Doubleought Freeport.Thicker floor and firewall?
Was not impressed with the 3 gears then D to choose
from.I'll stick with the left-leg flexor.Would like to drive a 6 with a clutch.I was also impressed what
additional 30 ponies could produce Zoom/Zoom!
The mid-sized Mazda6 sedan/wagon/hatchback, replacements for the long-standing 626 and Millenia, will be available beginning later in the year in three separate versions: four-door sedan (first to arrive); five-door hatchback (spring); and five-door wagon (about a year away). The new "6" is noticeably larger and more aggressive looking than the outgoing 626, while the use of front and rear double-wishbone suspensions is designed to provide a sporty posture. Once inside, you'll find titanium trim and chrome accents surrounding the dials and gauges. Wagon and hatchback will arrive with a 60/40 split rear seat back that will fold to leave a completely flat loading floor. A 160-horsepower four-cylinder and a 220-horsepower 3.0-liter V6 will provide forward motivation.
This was written by a Jason Stein from WHEELBASE COMMUNICATIONS. It is in preparation for the Michigan International Auto Show to be held in Grand Rapids January 30-February 2 at the Grand Center.
Hmmmmmmm....wonder how accurate his info is? Hopefully VERY - then I won't have to wait a year for the hatchback!!
The person said Ford=Mazda and that we all know how Mazdas are not as realiable as Honda and Toyota. This is where it's at.
Annon and Talon were simply doing a favour, pointing out the Accord to people that might chose the 6, just like I did in the other room. The only difference is that that potential Accord buyer wasn't going to look at the 6 b/c of the all too commom equation, us mathematicians are faced with: Mazda=Ford, therefore...
Dinu
Asked him Can you tell me how accurate this information is? Everything I've seen or heard so far about the Hatchback is either Fall or Winter release in the States - about a year from now.
I'll report back if/when he responds.
Accord
The Accord has a better engine. It revs nicely AND it has some low end torque ... enough torque to prevent you from rowing the gears constantly. The Accord at 2500 rpm can get out of its own way but the Mazda wouldn't do it until the mid 30's.
The transmission on the Accord is slicker, too. The shifter is precise and the clutch is the stuff of Honda legend.
At highway speed the engine rpm's aren't as high as the Mazda6 and yet the Accord's torque let you modulate the car without shifting.
Yet the ride on a rather miserable stretch of highway was ... miserable. Choppy and noisy were all I could think while going down the road. The idea of spending an extended day in the car was not appealing. This sort of took me by surprise because the reviews have all talked about how great the car is on the open road. Go figure.
Around town the car road well, handled well and was quite nice. I liked it.
Mazda6
The 4cyl engine needs rpms to pull off its magic but is quite nice when it gets going. It'll rev like hell and is quite a bit of fun. Still, the Honda has it beat on low end grunt.
The transmission isn't quite as nice as the Honda but it is in the same league. The release of the clutch in 1st gear on the 4cyl is a little odd, as others have noted, but is something you'd get used to pretty quick.
The handling and ride is where Mazda puts the Honda to shame. The Mazda handles quicker, the steering wheel is more responsive and the 6 rides better, too. On the miserable stretch of highway the Mazda6 was reasonably tolerable. Road noise was there but it was of a different frequency and pitch than the Honda (and it didn't seem to grate on my nerves as much as it did in the Accord). You aren't going to mistaken the ride for a big yacht but it was a LOT better than the Honda. IMHO the Mazda would be the better car over a long haul.
I tested the Mazda6 with and without the 17" tires. If you prefer the 17" then get 'em and be happy. But the compromise of handling/noise/ride with the 16" tires is pure magic to me. Mazda really nailed the compromise between ride and handling nicely.
Around town the car was a hoot. It road well, handled great, was fairly quiet. It was also a lot of fun, sort of like a toy that begs to be played with. It just loves to rev and will handle curves like a winner.
Summary
The Accord has a lot of strengths and is a damn fine car. If it was my only choice it'd be a good decision based on the drive, not to mention the resale value. When the test drive was over I kept thinking it was a nice car.
The Mazda won't have the resale value of the Honda. But when I was driving it I was smiling and laughing. I didn't want to bring it back into the dealership and end the demo. When the test drive was over I wanted to go back and drive it again.
Both are fine cars. Go test 'em both and see which one make you happy.
Dinu
ruski--That's cool. Do you know if any other manufacturers have that feature? In the manumatic Audi I drove, it started you in first, no matter what gear you selected (then again it was an AWD car, so snow wouldn't be much of a problem).
That's not the case when comparing my Protege with a comparably priced Civic.
(And I missed about 500 posts in this place!)
I will be ordering this car today.
The ride is solid and so much fun. The styling is nice (not over the top, not boring).
Another family member owns the new Accord and just can't see why I would even think of a Mazda.
How about sytle? How about not having the same damn car as everyone else on the road?
And how about getting a V6 with tons of fun options for about $3000 less than they paid for a 4 banger?
Okay, I won't go on about family arguments. But it was a doosy!
By the way, my choice for a new car up until Thursday was the new Nissan Murano. I still really like that vehicle, but I can't afford it.
A really good sporty sedan will be just the ticket.
Have fun!
Let us know how it drives once you break it in - after 1000 miles or so.
Dinu
Can't blame your family for not considering Mazda. Nobody else has for years.
Just wait until you pull up in the 6. They'll understand in short order. No, it may not be as fast or as completely refined as the Honda. But it IS a lot more fun to drive and not nearly as boring or ubiquitous as the Camcords of the world. Congrats.
I'm still waiting for my own 6s to be built and arrive. I'm told it'll be assembled sometime next week and shipped to the dealer shortly thereafter. I sure hope so. I'm SO sick of waiting.
My Chrysler 300M allowed me to select 2 or 3 before the car started moving. Also the AutoStick upshifted on its own at redline.
I think I like Chrysler's logic better.
In Acura, it is easy to get carried away and forget to shift. The result is unpleasant jerking and a lost race
The TL-S seems to be more "manual" controlled than the 300M which makes sense. They are targeted at different types of drivers.
The numbers really surprised me.
4cyl
----
Accord LX $1249
Mazda6 $1260
OK, nothing surprising there except that the Mazda is competitive in its class.
6cyl
----
Accord LX $1466 (automatic transmission)
Mazda6 $1273
I was expecting the Mazda to be more expensive with both engines and was really shocked that the 6cyl Mazda is so close in cost to the 4cyl.
I've been leaning heavily towards the 4cyl because of mileage and insurance costs. Guess the decision just got tougher.
I called about rates on the 6 to my agent (State Farm). For full coverage with $500 collision deductible, $50 comprehensive, etc. it was $429 or something like that, for 6 months. So about $900 for a year.
BUT - that's including multi-car discount and multi-line discount, as we have our other 2 vehicles and our homeowners insurance all with SF also. I'm 35, husband is 38, no tickets.
And I thought the $429 quote was HIGH! I'm used to paying a bit over $200 on my current MX-6, and husband's full coverage on his '99 Silverado is $350ish for 6 months. I couldn't believe how much it'd be for a brand new Mazda6!
Do you have other insurances with your agent to get discounts? Or is that price including discounts?
When I checked with him on the Murano, he was able to quote be just below invoice... very nice.
If he can do that for the M6, I'll place the order today.
He only warned me that because it was a very new vehicle I might have to wait as much as a month, but if the price is good, I'm willing.
I'll let you guys know what he comes up with.
As for comparisons to the Accord. I researched that heavily. I really can't see where a "driver" would pick the accord over the m6. Seems the only area where Honda beats M6 is in low-end torque. And like someone said... I don't plan to tow a boat with this thing!
Also, I guess hwy gas mileage is better in the Accord.. but I tend toward a lead foot, so I usually screw myself in the Mpg no matter what car I'm driving.
Sadly, that is pretty reasonable for New Jersey. We have the highest insurance rates in the nation.
I'll look around for better prices before signing papers but I was really just fishing for overall differences between engines. It shows the 6cyl won't cost me more than the 4cyl for insurance. Not what I expected at all.
Just to make you really sick, the Acura CL Type S (with a stick) I looked at last year would have cost around $1700 per year to insure. I liked the CL but couldn't get past its tempid looks, aggressive clutch or the costs (insurance + premium fuel). It also has so much power that it is difficult to control yourself and keep it legal. Can you imagine what the insurance costs would jump to with a couple of tickets?
At that time the rates may change. This might explain why the Honda/Mazda quotes were different, a V6 Accord is more expensive than the M6s.
All the research in the world isnt going to give you a real world example of actually driving both cars......So, Go down and drive both cars back to back...I think the Accord is a fine quality car but is somewhat dull and lacks something that you can only feel on the ride and drive. The mazda6 has a fun factor that Honda has never been able to find. We have an Acura franchise so I don't have anything personal agaisnt Honda.
Amen.
"The mazda6 has a fun factor that Honda has never been able to find."
One of my cars is an '89 Civic hatchback. It has the smallest engine they made and a 5 speed. And it is an absolute hoot to drive.
Civics were fun years back. It seems Honda doesn't want that audience anymore. Pity.
On the way back from snowboarding yesterday (was there something on TV? no lift lines) I noticed a small rattle. Checked the door pocket to find a screwdriver I had left there. After I took that out I noticed that the car is absolutely quiet and rattle free. Nice to know considering another posters experience with rattles in another make.
Since the Mazda website is soooo explanatory. (rolling eyes)
Also, GEICO insurance uses used parts to fix cars when they are hit. My best friend works in claims statistics there, so I know that for a fact. Would never deal with GEICO because of that.
Alarm shock sensor "feels" if the car is banged, moved, hit, etc., and will go off if the sensor "feels" this. Worthwhile upgrade.
As for the modeling of drum vs disk, you could visit the appropriate Edmunds discussion board. Over there, I wrote down few simple newtonian equations and showed that disk is superior to drum at high speed. I don't have impression there are many of counter arguments.
Bruno
also, anyone know why teh 6i has a 1/2" wider tracks front & rear than the 6s?
lastly, anyone know where i can find the torque graph for the 6i and 6s? i'd like to know how much torque there is to work with at 3000 rpm.
Before USAA, I found State Farm to be excellent. I had a stereo stolen and they were practically looking for ways to give me more money. "There's a mark, you are entitled to get that buffed out," when I could do this with my sleeve.
.
sickasadog:
- 90% of peak torque is available on the 4cyl engine from 1950 rpm, I've read. It doesn't feel this way until after the engine is broken in.
- There are dynos of the 6s on http://www.goonish.com/atenza/
- The 6i and 6s have different wheels standard, which probably accounts for the different track.
- The sports package adds drag (and wind noise), but decreases aerodynamic lift. It's only partially cosmetic- the front and rear spoilers are functional. Coefficient of drag is .30, if I remember correctly.
I swear I've seen 19xx rpm quoted somewhere as what was attained, but can't find it. In any event, it doesn't feel this way until after the engine has been broken in.
Drivetrain loss of 20% is normal for a FWD car, but the guy who ran this dyno put super high-grade fuel in his car. Not all engines respond well to this- in fact, most perform worse. I'd bet these numbers are a few horsepower shy of their actual results. Mazda's FWD MX-6 was reported to have a much lower drivetrain loss than this.
And man, am I torn on what to get... I think I'm going to go for the 6s. I'm more a "have fun in the twisties" kind of guy, not a drag racer like some of the folks fixated on acceleration here, but with the minor price difference the 6s' extra power is nice.
But the transmission's a tough one. I own an automatic Miata of all things right now, and I can take or leave a stick. But that manual 6s was *sweet.* I thought the shifter felt great.
Yeah, the automatic has the manumatic feature, but I bet most people use that the first week and never touch it again...
Hmm....
Though, if you like the manual, you may then find the 4cyl suddenly has enough power. Then you're really saving some $$$. The 4cyl auto is a pretty poor combo, I agree.
I'm not ready to buy, just checked to see what SF had to say.
BTW, my Protegé's premium is $371 bi-annually.
fowler3
It was my fav pic.
Jason.
The car had 4 miles on it when I got in. I drove it on the highway a little bit, merging and taking a nice sharp off ramp. The handling was totally wonderful, even better than my Jetta with sport suspension (ouch, that hurt).
The coolest feature is the flip down seatbacks I think. I love being able to just pull the lever and have them drop down. I wish the 6 offered some other things though, like automatic locks, stability control, a center sunvisor, and rear headrests. Oh well...
Again, definitely recommend this car to anyone shopping for a Camcord. You will be totally impressed by it.
Normally that applies only to door to door sales where the company solicited you first, you didn't call them, they called you.