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Mazda6 Sedan

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Comments

  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    As I may have mentioned in other forums. I question the tactics that CR uses to come up with these results. Many times I've seen them rate a vehicle high (recommended), that isn't even at the dealreship for sale. Some of them buying redesigned versions of the previous vehicle. Then in some cases, when there's warmed over (slight remodeled versions) of a specific vehicle, they classify as "Too new to determine".

    And through the years I've seen some biases over some specific vehicles. They do not seem to mention some well known problems of some specific vehicles, over other's.

    In the end, I say you just find word of mouth, test drive the car yourself, and try not to take CR too strictly. That's just ONE opinion of many out there, and should not be taken that seriously.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    As I may have mentioned in other forums. I question the tactics that CR uses to come up with these results. Many times I've seen them rate a vehicle high (recommended), that isn't even at the dealreship for sale. Some of them buying redesigned versions of the previous vehicle. Then in some cases, when there's warmed over (slight remodeled versions) of a specific vehicle, they classify as "Too new to determine".

    And through the years I've seen some biases over some specific vehicles. They do not seem to mention some well known problems of some specific vehicles, over other's.

    In the end, I say you just find word of mouth, test drive the car yourself, and try not to take CR too strictly. That's just ONE opinion of many out there, and should not be taken that seriously.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "And through the years I've seen some biases over some specific vehicles. They do not seem to mention some well known problems of some specific vehicles, over other's."

    I think CR is pretty accurate. I don't care about road tests. I buy my cars because I like the exterior styling and the interior. I don't buy my cars because they are fun to drive or whatever. For years people have said CR is bias. They declined Nissan's reliability in their last issue. They actually gave the Pontiac Grand Prix an excellent reliability and its a GM car. They dropped the 01 Honda Civic, 02 Toyota Camry, and 02 Nissan Altima(first year models) to average reliability from their predeccors which were above average reliability. I think they are pretty good at guaging cars reliability. I don't care about road tests though. One car I question their reliability about is the Pontiac Boneville. I see alot of last generation Boneville's on the road and CR continues to give it bad marks for reliability. I thought the Boneville was a solid built car.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    From my experience CRs opinion (regarding reliability) pretty much reflects reality. The other source is Consumers Guide. They have a list of typical problems and recalls.

    The problem is that you buy specific car and they all talk about statistics. Will your car comply with their statistics is another question.
  • slickdogslickdog Posts: 225
    I'm not sure used prices would necessarily be related to new prices.

    With a new car the advertised price is probably MSRP (right on the sticker) or less, you have a pretty good idea what the history of the car is (probably just a couple test drives), and you can get a pretty good idea of what the dealer paid for it by obtaining the invoice price (easy to find on the Internet).

    With a used car it's difficult if not impossible to find out what the dealer paid for the car, you can't really know all it's history, and retail values vary quite a bit depending on where you look. I'm sure most dealers realize this, and use it to their advantage when pricing their used vehicles. In my experience it can be tougher to haggle over a used vehicle for these reasons.

    I too noticed the same relative pricing between new and used Mazda6 sedans when I was shopping in Nov. The dealers I visited had a couple used sedans which really didn't seem like much of a deal if you walked a bit further down the lot and saw the prices on the new ones. Not that you couldn't get the used ones for less if you haggled enough, but they seemed to have a rather high asking price compared to the new ones.
  • bill1975bill1975 Posts: 19
    Exactly. As I mentioned in a different forum, I quickly through together an estimate with the MSRP at $21k and the invoice around $19k. If a used M6 is going for $16k-$17k is it reasonable to assume I can talk them down to $14k or $15k? I've seen some going for less but they have a few more miles on them (about 20,000-25,000) but that may not be a bad trade off. I just hope that if I DO decide to buy one of the more expensive used ones I can point out the thin line between new and used prices and hopefully they will come down a bit.
  • mazda6smazda6s Posts: 1,901
    Bill,
    If you checked the VINs of these used cars on CARFAX you would find that most of them are rental car returns. The rental companies don't like to keep them much past 25000 miles or so.
  • bill1975bill1975 Posts: 19
    I know. I looked that up, however, I dont know that many rental companies use these cars? One salesman at a Mazda dealer mentioned that often they have a few to use as loaner cars when a customer's car is in the shop. Perhaps this is why it comes back as a "rental". As far as I can tell, this isn't really a bad thing. 25,000 isnt that bad even if its a one year old car. I don't see how it could've been driven so hard that it wouldnt be worth buying. If it were in such bad shape, it probably wouldn't be up for sale by a Mazda dealer. So I would think that getting a newer car for less, in exchange for a few extra miles isn't really that bad?
  • fowler3fowler3 Posts: 1,919
    Hertz buys Mazdas for rentals and usually has them on their Used Car lots after about 6,000 miles. In 2004, Hertz had several 2003 MZ6i's at $15,995 with A/T.

    Even with only 6,000 miles you have to keep in mind that many people have driven them and you don't know how they treated those A/Ts, especially having the opportunity to try the manual feature. ;) On average rental cars have at least 260 drivers before hey are sold. That's a lot of gear thrashing, disc brake slamming, and engine revving.

    Considering that cars today have onboard computers which "learn" your driving habits and adjust settings accordingly; wonder how those computers handle the driving habits of 260 car renters?

    When I let another person drive my car -- it doesn't feel right when I get behind the wheel again, until I have driven it for a while. If the driver revs it more than I usually do and brakes harder -- it changes something. Not to mention the seat and mirrors being adjusted for him!

    fowler3
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    " wonder how those computers handle the driving habits of 260 car renters?"

    The computer will adapt to your learning habits in 5-10 minutes after ignition. Around 20 minutes, if you switched driver's without re-starting the vehicle.
  • bill1975bill1975 Posts: 19
    "Even with only 6,000 miles you have to keep in mind that many people have driven them and you don't know how they treated those A/Ts, especially having the opportunity to try the manual feature. ;) On average rental cars have at least 260 drivers before hey are sold. That's a lot of gear thrashing, disc brake slamming, and engine revving. "

    True, but then in my experience most people get a rental when the car is in the shop so they can get to work. Dosnt mean they will necessarily change their habits. Whenever I've rented a car I've always tried to be more careful than with my car since I dont want to get stuck paying more than I have to. besides, if I buy a lease return, or from a private owner, how do I know that car is in any better shape? If someone is a bad driver, they'll drive poorly regardless of who owns the car...

    BK
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    is still below average. I hope when I am in the market in a few years Mazda can get the bugs worked out in their next generation 6. I can understand a first year model having bad reliability but a second year model? Not really. All Mazda's used to get good reliability ratings by CR in the 90's with the exception of the 94-97 626 4 cyl auto which used a tranny that was bad. Only the 3, Tribute, and Miata get good reliability rating by CR. The MPV, 6 and, RX 8 are under average.
  • dakdogdakdog Posts: 2
    Slickdog or anyone familiar with compressor behavior,

    Any more conclusions on whether your compressor is actually running when it shouldn't be (no A/C, no defrost, only floor vent setting)?

    I'm suspecting the same thing on my brand new 5-door, although it hasn't happened recently as it has been well below 50F...
  • rampedramped Posts: 358
    If you read this forum, you will discover that those of us who own the cars are not reporting any problems of substance.

    From what I have noticed in my occasional monitoring of these forums is that the folks who do most of the complaining about certain models have never owned them. Obviously, the CR survey comes from owners, but my guess is that the 6 ownership pool is still very small among CR readers, thus the results may be significantly skewed.

    My '04 6s is as solid as a Honda or a Toyota (I've owned both), runs great, rides like a magic carpet and looks a heckuva lot better :)
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "If you read this forum, you will discover that those of us who own the cars are not reporting any problems of substance."

    "From what I have noticed in my occasional monitoring of these forums is that the folks who do most of the complaining about certain models have never owned them. Obviously, the CR survey comes from owners, but my guess is that the 6 ownership pool is still very small among CR readers, thus the results may be significantly skewed."

    I just got my current issue of CR today. CR states in their reliability charts that each cars reliability survey was taken from April 1, 2003 till March 31, 2004. In March of 2004 CR said 04 models had a total of 3,000 miles on them and a total of 6 months of ownership. Maybe I'll wait till the next issue of CR for them to rate the 6's reliability. To me CR's reliability of the 6 in their current is not very accurate. By comparison the MZ 3 got a bullseye which indicates Execellent Reliability by CR. To me its to early to till the reliability of both the 6 and the 3. Obviously 03 6's had reliability but that was a first year car. The 3 in March of 2004 the car was only 4 months old(in my opinion anyway)so the data by CR is kinda behind.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    "CR states in their reliability charts that each cars reliability survey was taken from April 1, 2003 till March 31, 2004. In March of 2004 CR said 04 models had a total of 3,000 miles on them and a total of 6 months of ownership."

    So basically, when I look for reliability rating for a brand new car, I can look it up in CR for a car thats TWO YEARS OLD?? What a load of @#$%!!

    The Mazda 6 was in it's infancy then, when we had first-year teething problems, normal for all cars. You want a reliability survey? Try this one: My brother-in-law and I both own '04s, both over 6 months old, with 9000+ miles each. He has a 6iAT, mine a 6sMT. NO problems, NO hassles, NO outstanding issues! Both cars have been, dare I say it, excellent in reliability!

    "To me CR's reliability of the 6 in their current is not very accurate."

    'Nuff said!

    If you want ACCURATE reviews, go to consumerguide.com. They seem to recommend the 6, plus the data they use is UP-TO-DATE!!

    Sorry, CR! Either get with it or get out!
  • slickdogslickdog Posts: 225
    I'm waiting for warmer weather to investigate further, but at this point I am nearly convinced that the compressor is at least engaging when I first turn the climate system on in any mode. It's quite a lot more difficult to determine how much it is running while driving however.

    I just can't believe that simply turning the fan on the lowest speed for floor heat would produce enough load on the engine to cause the idle speed control to kick the engine speed up like it does. That plus the slight clunking sound I hear up front tells me that the compressor is engaging.

    I'll definitely post this spring or summer when I have time look into it further.

    If I had the spare time and $$$, I'd get an OBD II connector, install freediag on my laptop, and try to get the car to tell me when it's turning the A/C relay on and off. But for now, careful observation will have to suffice.
  • likaglovlikaglov Posts: 82
    Dakdog - try it out on a rainy day. You'll know for sure with that much moisture in the air whether the compressor is running or not (regardless of the outside temperature). I'm of the belief that if the A/C light is on, so is the compressor. However, the ACC will still work if you turn ON ACC, then turn OFF just the A/C and leave the fan speed and vent direction alone. Good luck!
  • mileagemileage Posts: 9
    2003 with 46,000 miles and no problems
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    This begs the question...

    Which one of us has the most miles on their 6?

    I think mileage is a contender with 46,000. Can anybody beat that?

    Let's be honest, I don't want to see "300k and counting this second!" :-)

    It leads me to another question... How many miles without any problems?

    Here's my tally: an '04 with 9,000 miles and no problems.

    Anyone else?
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,456
    Interesting. Criticizing a survey of reliability because of the the sample and then offering a sample of two vehicles as a better alternative. ; ^ )

    The 6 is not as reliable as it was, it is down below average from above average. Both Accord and Camry were down (to average from much above) in their recent new model intros.

    All cars are more reliable now, so a little below average is not as terrible as it once was. There are plenty of samples of even the worst cars that are absolutely trouble free. If you take the time to read CR you will see that the trouble rates for problems with the 6 are just a small percentage of vehicles.

    I expect the six to get better over time as Accord and Camry have. In other words, if the 6 maintains its problem rates over time and others go down, then the reliability of the 6 will increase.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    "Interesting. Criticizing a survey of reliability because of the the sample and then offering a sample of two vehicles as a better alternative."

    In all fairness, I was critical of the fact that they used data from mostly '03 models, and few, if any, '04 models. It seems, based on previous posts, and my experience, that the '04 models are more reliable, with fewer problems. Personally, if I were to purchase a new vehicle, I'd rather weigh in second-year data, or more recent data, as compared to first-year, or two-year-old data.

    I guess I was a little hard on CR, but unfortunately, their comment will turn off a whole bunch of midsize sedan buyers that were considering the 6, which is a shame.

    "...if the 6 maintains its problem rates over time and others go down, then the reliability of the 6 will increase."

    Let's all hope so. Time wasted in the service dept. of a Mazda dealer is time (and money) lost forever.
  • fitguyfitguy Posts: 222
    A quick point about rentals as used cars: the problem often lies not so much in the sheer numbers of drivers, but in the first group when the car is new. If a rental has the snot beat out of it during the break-in period, the chance that it will have problems later on is far greater. Even though the rental car companies generally perform regular maintenance. And unfortunately, there is no way to determine how it was treated during break-in. For this reason alone, I have never and would never buy a used rental. Even a new Hundai would be a better option.
  • rampedramped Posts: 358
    Everyone has their opinion on buying rental cars, but those opposed seem convinced that every rental driver grinds them into the ground. That simply isn't the case.

    I live in Kissimmee, FL, probably the rental car capital of the world (Disney World and all). This I can state as an absolute fact: Rental cars are never driven over 20 mph, and they are all programmed to turn left from the right lane with no signal :)

    Oh, by the way: 04 6s, 5K, no problems.
  • fitguyfitguy Posts: 222
    Perfect!! And the little white Q-Tip is just visible through the drivers window!
  • slickdogslickdog Posts: 225
    I too would be concerned with how the rental vehicles are broken in. One of the cars I rented was a Grand Am with 31 miles on it, which I took on two 500+ mile trips with the cruise set at 75 most of the way. That is something many owner's manuals tell you not to do during the break-in period.

    Furthermore, I used to work for a local rental car company and not only were some of the customers hard on the cars - you should have seen what some of the lot guys did to them out back!
  • '04 6S w/5 speed manual, just turned 15,000 miles.

    NO problems whatsoever. Oil & filter changes and 1 tire rotation. Had a CEL at around 6K miles. Dealer reflashed the computer and appolgized profusely for the inconvenience!
  • 03 6s AT with about 28,800 miles. No problemo.
    Except today, I was looking for a parking spot for a long time and when I got it, I moved into the stall and scraped my front right skirt against the curb. Bummer. It looks pretty scary. I hope to be able to touch it up with the paint Mazda sent me in the mail.

    BTW, took her to Vegas last Christmas. What a sweet trip! On the way home (Christmas Day), I was anxious to make it on time for a dinner party, so I drove her 120 mph (for a while at least, for fear of getting caught by some cop), keeping company with a hot chick in a Vette. Can't wait to take her (my zoom-zoom, not the chick) for another long ride...

    vudini
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "The 6 is not as reliable as it was, it is down below average from above average."

    When the 6 first came out CR rated the 6 with a bullsye meaning excellent reliability. In hindsight however those cars only had 3,000 miles on them and Mazda did not sell many 6's when the car first debut that particular issue of CR came out at that time.

    "Both Accord and Camry were down (to average from
    much above) in their recent new model intros."

    The 03+ Accord has never been downgraded to average reliability in CR's survey's. It has always been above average in reliability. CR has just caught on to the brake problem with the 03(models's only)Accord's but the still ranks both 03 and 04 Accord's above average in reliability.

    The 02+ Camry yes you are right CR did downgrade it to average reliability from above average reliability in its first year of bodystyle. Now for 04-05 the Camry gets the bullseye for excellent reliability.

    I should note CR also dropped the 02 Altima to above average reliability to average reliability in its first year of bodystyle. CR just dropped the 02(model's only) Altima's reliability from average to belew average in this current issue. Also, CR just dropped the 03 Altima's reliability from above average to average. I wonder why they didn't update the 6's reliability data but updated the Altima's and Accord's for the 03 model year at least.

    "I expect the six to get better over time as Accord and Camry have. In other words, if the 6 maintains its problem rates over time and others go down, then the reliability of the 6 will increase."

    In my opinion in CR's next issue which should come out this fall I think we should have more of an accurate reading on the 6's reliability as far as 04 model's are concerned. I should note in the current issue of CR it did rate the 6 above average in owner satisfaction so thats pretty cool. I guess alot of people would buy a Mazda 6 again.
  • I have heard a couple of tid-bits about the 2006 Mazda6.

    First, there is a new 5-speed automatic transmission for 2.3L models. So better gas mileage is on the way. Good news. I also hear that this same tranmission will also be in the 2006 Mazda3 as well.

    Also, there will be a new package offered on Mazda6 Sport models in Canada. 18-inch wheels and HIDs.

    You can also expect some minor tweeks in terms of looks inside and out. I believe there are already pictures ot these changes floating around the net from the European autoshow circuit.
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