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Honda Civic Si vs. VW GTI



  • I want to test drive the M3 SMG, but I think I would probably get a stick. Not sure though. Wow, were those two really hypothetical sentences.

    I don't know which car I would get, but they are definitely both fast enough to get me in trouble. You know, I was wondering, how does a person with a car like that not feel frusterated all the time? You can't even run through the first 3 gears without being way over the speed limit.
  • hamproofhamproof Posts: 241
    A blanket statement like that is not winning you any points.

    Who would take a 3 series (325i, 330i not M3) over a Vette?? Not even the Z06, but a regular vette? It is better if you mention which Bummer you are referring to.

    If you frequest Porsche boards, you'll know hardcore, diehard Porsche fans do not consider the Boxster a true Porsche. The Boxster is like an illegitimate child or blacksheep of the family. You have to take care of it, but you don't like to acknowledge it if you don't have to.

    Any Mercedes. The C230 is a joke! The interior is about on par w/ the prev. gen Neon! The C240 and C320 is a little better, but the interior is about on par w/ a Vette and performance comparison, need I say anymore?

    People who sees a Bummer (no matter what model, trim, year etc) and says "Wow! You drive a Bummer". Same goes for Lexus or MB. Don't they realize some minivans (Honda), SUVs (Toyota, Ford) cost about what the prices are for 3 series, C class and at times more! But when you see someone pulls up in a brand spanking new Odyssey, it doesn't seem to impress them as much as someone who pulls up w/ an ES300/IS300, C230/C240/C320, 325i/330i. I guess these are the same people who are worried about their own cars and not buying the higher trim level ;)
  • rickroverrickrover Posts: 602
    That's exactly why I like my little GTI so much. I get to explore it's limits without the fear of getting thrown in jail - which could easily happen exploring the limits of an M3. Plus I'm not all paranoid of the GTI like I would be an M3. A door ding or rock chip isn't the end of the world in the GTI.
  • Let's have a lesson in reading comprehension ... I said "A used one is an even better deal. It's not on par with a BMW, Porsche, or MB but neither is the price."

    The Vette's overall quality may be lacking when compared to MB, Porsche, and BMW's that have equal performance BUT the Vette's price reflects this. People who are going to buy BMW, Porsche, or MB are going to buy BMW, Porsche, or MB. People who want Vettes are going to buy Vettes. Just as people who want a Honda/VW want a Honda/VW and often don't cross-shop.
  • I'm just as paranoid over my $16,000 SI as I would be over a $50,000 Mercedes. But the SI doesn't get parked in the garage, the Mercedes would.
  • rickrover-
    Nothing is quite as depressing as waxing your car, because that is when you find out exactly how many stupid chips you have.

    badge snobs rule the world
  • Not everyone that owns a BWM, MB or Porsche is a badge snob - I'll grant you that the vast majority probably are. The ones that aren't are a hoot to hang with at the track and other car based sporting events. I actually belong to the Porsche and BMW clubs to take advantage of their track and other club events - club members are really nice, down to earth people that aren't snobby at all.

    My last SCCA AutoX event had a bunch of MB C230k's at it - they did very well.
  • I'm not referring to just those brands, actually, most of the most obnoxious brand snobs I've run into lately have owned Acuras.
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    Hi Folks - Let's please get back to the subject of this discussion. Thanks! ;-)

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
  • 204meca204meca Posts: 366
    I have been internally debating the GTI vs the Si for months. Having driven both several times and I am still torn! It may come down to who gives me the best deal with my Del Sol trade in.

    I have an 02 GTI in my garage tonight, for an extended test drive. It has so many nice little touches and features that the Si seems like a stripped model in comparison. Why can Honda give us arm rests, AM/FM/cassette/CD player, fully adjustable seats and and articulatin headrests, all lighted switches, one touch up and down windows. Honda does not even have a tether on the gas cap for crying out loud. Yet the Si is tighter, handles much nicer & just feels better, even with its significant power deficit.

    I like to do my own general maintenance. The Si has unusually long extended maintenance intervals. When I look under the hood of the GTI, it looks much more complex. It appears that a plastic rock shield has to be removed to get off the oil filter. Are any of you GTI owners doing your oil changes etc? How difficult is it on the VW?

    Thanks, Dan
  • Yes I did my own oil change on mine cause I didn't want to spend all that money that a lube place would for a synthetic change. I think Jiffy lube wanted $60 plus fees and taxes. I used ramps and had great difficulty finding the oil filter. Its up in front past a undercarriage shield. Not much room to work so it may be better to get the clamp type wrench so you can turn it while the tool is perpendicular to the filter. Should be easier for me next time at 10k. Good luck to you.
  • 204meca204meca Posts: 366
    Thanks for the info. One post said they take off the shield (7 Torks bolts). It would certainly be easier to not remove the shield, but then it appears that you end up with quite a drippy, oily mess as the oil from the filter would drain onto the shield & then onto everything else. Is that a problem or do you have some trick to avoid that?

    Thanks, Dan
  • They give you a little thing to hang it off of .. what's the difference?
  • hamproofhamproof Posts: 241
    My A4 has a little tether and a place to hang on the lid. Some people are lazy and they usually put it on the decklid and usually drive off forgetting about it rather than putting it on the lid where it is suppose to go. If it is tethered, it is more visible and hopefully the already absent minded driver will see it and put it back on.
  • Well the way that the SI is set up you attach this little ball that's on the edge of the gas cap to a little hole that's on your gas cap door. You can not shut the door if the gas cap is still on it.

    My first car, which was a 89 Ford Probe, had the little wire attaching the gas cap but you know I would still rather drive my SI. What the heck am I thinking????
  • hamproofhamproof Posts: 241
    ball and what hole? Drive to the gas station during lunch hour and I bet you'll see more people leaving the gas cap on the decklid or roof instead of its *proper* location.

    The tether is an idiot proof way for preventing gas cap loss.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    The people that buy their cars aren't idiots?
  • Dan,
    It's coming back to me now...Yes, I did remove the shield before removing the filter. It's hard enough with the shield removed, so I will do it again next time at 10k. I have a cordless screwdriver with torx heads so it didn't take very long.

  • PLEASE READ THIS before buying any new Volkswagen!

    I bought my '00 VW GTI 1.8T brand new a couple of years ago from Flow Motors here in Winston-Salem, NC. Despite meticulous care and conscientious maintenance, the vehicle was nothing but trouble from the start.

    Here's a brief rundown:

    I had the car in the shop SIX times to have window problems fixed. (The passenger door glass was replaced twice due to deep scratches caused by the power window mechanism, and the easily broken "retainer clip" which connects the window glass to the door motor had to be replaced several times as well). Try driving 40 miles down the interstate back to the dealership with the driver's window stuck in the "down" position, and you you may appreciate my mood at the time. I had to use vacation time to take the car in for service immediately, as any precipitation would have ruined the interior, and my belongings inside the vehicle were unprotected from the elements, not to mention theft.

    Virtually every exterior bulb -- headlamps, turn signals, and brake lamps -- burned out on this supposedly well-built "German" vehicle within two years of purchase. One headlamp burned out TWICE, despite having been replaced with a genuine VW bulb from the dealer.

    The cheap plastic hinge on the glove compartment door broke twice. The whole door has to be replaced when this happens. (Hey VW, why not use a METAL hinge if you're going to spring-load the glove box for that pleasant "dampened" feel?)

    The clutch went out after only 40,000 miles (a very costly repair). Bear in mind that I did not abuse this vehicle -- most of the miles were accumulated in fifth gear on the interstate.

    The air conditioner started malfunctioning last summer, leaving me drenched in sweat more than once, but luckily started working again. Don't ask why. I hate to think what a new condenser would have cost.

    The turbo blew an intake valve, causing a loud "fluttering" noise during acceleration. The "check engine" light came on as well. The turbo valve cost around $200 to replace, and the part was not covered by VW's touted 100,000 mile powertrain warranty (even though the VW salesman specifically told me that the turbo WAS fully covered by the extended warranty when I purchased the vehicle).

    The six-disc, trunk-mounted CD player was problematic, constantly jamming and generating a bogus "disc error" message. (I had the same problem with numerous newly-purchased CDs, so it wasn't the software.) I had to pull over, pop the hatch, remove the cartridge and "spin" all the discs to listen to any of the CDs. A nuisance to say the least, particularly while commuting or driving in bad weather.

    Disgusted with the constant breakdowns, I threw up my hands and traded in my GTI on an '03 Subaru WRX after the last repair epdisode, during which I was bluntly advised by VW maintenance personnel that my inoperative driver's side window could not be repaired because no replacement parts were available anywhere in the country. (No replacement parts nationally for a '00 model! GET REAL!) It took calls to the general manager and regional service director to finally get the parts by special order, and I drove a rental for a couple of days while they replaced the assembly.

    Now, after absorbing a loss on my trade to avoid more unforseen repairs, I get a letter from VW stating that they're generously extending the manufacturer's warranty to cover certain window problems. (The dealer advised me that VW has known about the problem for years, but refused to issue a timely recall, and will now have to spend a cool $100 million to replace thousands of defective power window assemblies in ALL models.)

    Please, learn from my mistake and CONSIDER ALL YOUR OPTIONS CAREFULLY BEFORE CHOOSING ANY VOLKSWAGEN PRODUCT. There are just too many other choices, folks, to be stuck with a sub-standard product that makes for a great test drive but provides poor reliability and dealer service down the road. If you find yourself sipping cold coffee and sitting for hours in the waiting area of your local VW repair shop while the same old defective part in your "German-engineered" vehicle is replaced yet again, you have only yourself to blame. This is a true story, and I have the service records to prove it. (I'm not alone: a friend of mine had a '00 New Beetle that needed a full brake job after only 15,000 miles and started belching black smoke soon thereafter -- another hurried trade-in.)

    Look, I'm not a mechanic or race fanatic who spends a lot of time arguing about which brand is better than another. I'm just an ordinary consumer who expects a $21,000 brand new vehicle to have things like a reliable engine, working windows, a functional CD player and a useable glove box.

    Don't let VW do the same thing to you -- do yourself (and your wallet) a favor and stay away from this "German-engineered" (and Argentinian built) brand until they make quality control and customer service a priority.
  • Guess Consumer Reports hit the nail on the head with this one.
This discussion has been closed.