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Honda Civic Si vs. VW GTI



  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    I don't have a 2002 Civic Si, obviously since they haven't come out yet. I am particularly not a fan of the hatchback so I probably won't get one either. But I can tell you, that for the price you paid for your GTI + the $1200 in mods, I could get that same performance in my 2000 Si. You have to remember first, that the price out the door is significantly more. I paid $16500 for my Si new and I bought it in Jan of 2000. It has been two years not and the only mod I made so far was changing out those crappy Michelin XGT V4 tires with some Yokahama S306's. The difference is like night and day. I thought about adding a supercharger, I believe with a Vortech unit I could get close to the HP numbers you are but definitely not the torque (a big Honda downfall in my opinion). But as for driveability, it would still be there. I have driven several supercharged Si's and they all seemed to drive the same as mine, just more kick off the light and definitely more accelleration up to speed. To be honest, I have wanted a Jetta GE 1.8t for sometime and when VW stated that they were going to bump up the HP to 180 I was salavating. The truth right now is that VW reliablity is shodding at best. I am not getting that from message boards, or CR reports. I am getting if from the 6 people that I know who own Jettas that are 2000 or newer. Each one of them has had major problems, the largest being a guy who needed a new tranny and it took them two and a half months to do it. Actually they put two in, the second one went bad too, so I guess the third one is a charm. Another girl told me that she loved her Jetta, and would get another one, but it had been in the shop 5 times in the past 11 months. She was glad that she leased it though! I can't settle for that. The two VW dealers around here are crappy, they act like they don't need you and they leave you out on the curb once they get you in the car. Another lady I work with has had nothing but trouble from day one. Stating problems of electrical problems, door problems, engine problems and radio problems. And to boot, her head light went out and it cost her $60 bucks for the bulb! and I put it in for her so the dealer wouldn't charge her $30 for labor. That is ridiculous! To be fair here, I have had a horrible time at one of the Honda dealers here. The first time, I went, my wheel beering went bad (I believe my nephew used my car while I was out of town and hit a huge pothole). The dealer fixed it for free the same day and I had the car when I got out of work. The bad experience was at the other dealer that I went to where they were going to fix a paint chip that I got, but they were suppose to call me for an appointment. They never called. To me that is inexcuseable, they are into customer service, they should do anything in their power to make your experience enjoyable if not tolerable. I haven't heard anyone who can say that about VW in recent years. If VW can get reliability issues under control, they will have an incredible car that would be a bargain at their prices.

  • tommyp13tommyp13 Posts: 146
    I realize that $400 is a good price for a 17" set-up, but I'd also assume that they aren't the lightest rims out there. If you're going aftermarket for the Si, at least you can get lightweight rims (like TE-37s). Personally, I'd rather save the $400 and get rims that I really want. Besides, every rim option that I've seen for VWs isn't going to win any beauty prizes (or really any OEM rim from most makes).

    Jetta has gotten some very bad reliability ratings recently, though I really don't understand why it would be given worse grades than the GTI. I'm glad that VW has stepped up on increasing the warranty, but if they really wanted to impress me, they'd extend the warranty on the window regulators. It's the little things that fall apart on the GTIs, not the drivetrain. I think that the Si is going to hold up better in the longterm.

    And, I actually think that not having an auto option is an advantage for the Si. Leave slushboxes to the minivans.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I agree with what you say about rims. But most people like the looks of 17 inchers even if it might affect performance.

    But then, there may be lighter 17" wheels too (new ITR/CTR?), but they would cost a lot more.
  • tommyp13tommyp13 Posts: 146
    I don't know about this (I should know by Saturday, after the Philly auto show); are the Si's rims a 4 or 5 bolt pattern? I'd guess 4, and would hope that the new ITR and/or CTR rims would be 5. This would probably make it hard to swap, though I'm sure that you could swap over the hubs. Which would make it interesting for other swaps as well, such as the brakes, which should be bigger on the Type R's.

    The Frankenstein possibilities are pretty cool, which is something that the GTI doesn't have going for it, obviously.
  • as far as moparbad comment goes about "The Si is manufactured in UK". this is not true. hondas are made in one of three places depending on what the vin starts with....and your choices are....usa...japan and canada. however, because canadian si specs are completely different from the us and japan. sis are only coming out of one of the two. as far as what is going to be faster. same as last year....facts are facts...rolling off the lot the si will get to 60 before the gti. check the stats. the 2000 si was gettin there before this years gti. 7.1 in 2000. this year is not sure on exact since they seem to vary so far but it is guarenteed 6s. and well leave it at that and wont even touch on how the handling is worlds apart...
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    this isn't a serious issue, but all of the civic hatches (in this case, Si's) will be built in Swindon [England] and shipped to the US. The hatch shares no body panels with the over civics made at the NA plants, so it wouldn't make sense to put them on the same assembly line. Well that, and every article out there mentions that the Si is being produced in England.
  • the si wheels will still have the same 4 lug design.
  • who designs and assembles the engine is completely and in no way the same as who puts together the body..
  • there is no point in arguing honda reliability which is one of (if not the) most reliable line of cars on the road to vw how is one of the least reliable and carrying one of the worst reputations of anything on the road. sure read a problem board. every car in the world will have their share and their complaints and their boards. but compare country wide overall stats and now hes sitting on here and facts and facts.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    You owe me an apology pimpkwene, the Civic Si is manufactured in "Unlike the Civic coupe and sedan, which are manufactured in North America, the Civic Si comes exclusively from Honda's Swindon plant in England. The Civic Type-R, an even sportier version sold only in Japan and Europe, is also from this plant" yeah, thats right, England. I've been to the UK twice in past three years and I am familar with the cars there. Honda Civic reliability is recognized to be better than Golf/GTI but as much as I dislike Consumer Reports I think you should take a look at the rating given to Golf/GTI and you will find it recommended. Your statement about the problems listed on boards is ridiculous, there are ten times as many posts for Honda as there are for GTI and Golf, and that still does not prove anything as the Golf/GTI is recognized to have more problems than Honda. Worst reputation of anything on the road, LOL! As far as the reputation of the GTI you should read some of the early reviews on GTI vs. Si. The professionals who review vehicles as their occupation have been picking the GTI over the Si.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    "My car's more reliable than your car" become the hot topic of debate amoungst sports (or sporty) car fans? Jeez!

    Next it will be, "my key fob is cooler than your key fob!"
  • I have read all your posts and I know more about the GTI and the SI than I did an hour ago. Thanks guys for th ewealth of information. I really love the Golf GTI and it has been my dream car since I was a kid in Algeria; however, the SI seems to be getting a lot of pros. Is Honda better than VW when it comes to hatchbacks or is it a matter of taste ? Although, I worked at a VW dealership as I was going to college and people had a lot of problems with them ( way back in 1996). I shoulodnt be talking really because I am leasing a 99 Alero, I hate that car.Thank god the lease is over soon. Should I get a GTI VR6, Honda SI, a VR6 GTI, a civic EX ? Do you guys agree with me that american made cars are terrible ?

    Go Steelers!!!
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    I think that small domestic cars have typically been after thoughts of the manufacturers and therefore crappy. But I think that's starting to change. Despite what some here think, the Focus is making inroads in the small market and Chevy should soon (finally!) be killing the Cavalier and bringing over a new Opel/Vauxhall design. Neon I understand is going to be replaced by a joint Mitsubishi/DC design. So at least changes are a foot. But I can understand people being hesitant to buy a small domestic.
  • I would appreciate it if anyone can give me some input on my above post , and can somebody tell me what is soft suspension and what is best for a car to have, hard or soft sus ?
    thanks again!
  • i dont owe you can apology because they are not all coming out of england. i work at a dealership. i get letters directly from honda...can you say the same? and to do you one better a have a friend whos a writer at a vw dealership. and you know what? he complains to me about the cars and the problems he encounters everyday. im not trying to have a battle here. you made a statement...i was pointing out that it is not entirely true. and your right...magazines have their own opinions we dont always agree with. but statistics and one persons opinion are completely different things. statisticly....hondas have been and up until this very day. have always been considered more reliable. but like seminole_kev said...reliable sisnt everything. depends on what you want a car for. now the real question is...what do youlook for when you get a car? and is reading really believing?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Exactly where other than Swindon, England will the US version of Civic Si be manufactured? Please tell me how many different assembly locations there will be for the 12,000 units that are expected to be produced in 2002.
    What I stated is true, you do owe me (and Honda) an apology, and I have a question for you, are you old enough to legally drink?
    About your VW service writer friend...I hope your friend is not the one I got in trouble with VWoA last fall because they did not know the warranty program and they lied to me, and I called VWoA on the spot, it was entertaining as the writer got chewed out by VWoA as I watched and listened.
    VW is improving it's quality and it's dealer network, new dealership facilities, and improved results or else. Honda is actually diverting Civic production from Ohio in order to manufacture their new truck/suv, so tell me where the Civic Si is going to be manufactured other than Swindon.
    And feel free to scan your honda letters and post the links here, I'll be waiting for your proof.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Have been designed exclusively for European market at Honda's R&D center in Germany, and will be manufactured only in England. That means, that Japan and America will get their supply of Type-R/Si/SiR etc. from Europe.

    Said that, if anybody really thinks about quality slack due to country of origin, think again.

    And moparbad, don't make age an issue when discussing things.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Age is not an issue? Posting in an immature manner such as one of the previous contributors (I work at Honda LOL) is usually a signal that the person posting is young. Honda is targeting the youth market age 16-25 with the Si, VW targets the young buyer with it's GTI and Jetta, and both VW and Jetta have younger buyers overall than many of their competitors. Age is an issue when discussing vehicles, age is an issue in driving style, age is an issue in insurance premiums, age is an issue as to when you are allowed to drive, age affects income, etc..
    Saying that age is not an issue when discussing automobiles is ridiculous.
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    It's okay to take issue with another participant's statement, however our Town Hall Agreement requires that this is is to be done with civil and friendly debate.

    In other words, it's okay to attack an idea, but it's not okay to make personal jabs (or heated remarks) towards other members for their opinions. Feel free to email me if you have any question/comments about this.

    And now back to the subject of the Honda Civic vs the VW GTI. Thanks for your participation. ;-)

    Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Yes, every car is launched for a targeted audience, hence demographics. Age, sex, income whatever. Good point but only as long as we're discussing cars.
This discussion has been closed.