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Lexus SC 430

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Comments

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Now there is some truth to what you're saying. Anytime a comparo has a Lexus and a Porsche in it, someone is going to loose badly...depending on the criteria being judged. I think the Lexus is a luxury machine first, but it hasn't always lost this contest based solely on it's lack of performance or it's looks.

    Several magazines have also knocked the car for it's lack of body rigidity, it's always knocked for this especially when compared to the SL, XLR or 911, which are constantly praised for having a tighter body structure and a "tighter" overall build. My own personal take on the SC430 is that it's an interesting car, but it's too close to being a 2-door LS430 in it's driving, and it does claim to be a "GT" car afterall, that implies more excitement than it is able to provide. It wears 18-inch wheels/tires that promise a better drive than it delivers. I'm sure the car is not sloppy in it's handling, but what the mags find is that it doesn't match the class leaders, and it's not like those cars have punishing rides either, 911 excluded. The Lexus also has a rather garish interior when you specify the light wood with the dark leather, it simply looks to busy (overdone) compared to say the XLR or SL, which look better integrated. I personally think it's a big omission on Lexus' part by not having any kind of rollover protection.

    Compared to the old CLK the SC430 is more of standout, but not in a favorable way I guess to many. I see the old CLK Cabriolet as a classic looking Benz, the proportions are just so right, it's very hard to top styling wise. The SC430 comes off looking like a ladybug or upside down bathtub in comparision, it's not sleek like a roadster should be, it's too upright and bulbous. That said, I personally find it to be an interestingly styled car, not ugly at all just weird....but shockingly I can see where it would appeal to people. I'll say too, that the new CLK Cabrio does nothing for me stylewise either.

    M
  • 1. You can't specify the light wood with the dark leather; the light wood come with and only with the "ecru" (off white) interior.

    2. The word "it's" is a contraction, not a possessive pronoun.

    3. I agree; the SC430 is not a Porsche and isn't trying to be; that's why I like it.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Either way it's still tacky looking and to over-the-top.

    M
  • Most people who have ventured an opinion on the sc interior/dash have thought it was among THE nicest and tasteful interior ever seen on a car.
    And while the exterior could be more sleek and less "bulbous" (I see this too!) I get nothing but "wows" from the "average" non-car nut dude on the street. I still think (because it is a
    daring style statement) this car gets more (positively!)noticed than most beamers and Mercs,

    Incidentally, I have the dark wood interior with saddle leather..........both unique and beautiful to most.

    If I could throw out my practical side that loves Luxury, reliability AND Value..........I would want a porsche.

    D
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Any non-car person would be wowed by any of these cars, so I'm not sure exactly what that means. How do you know it gets noticed more than a BMW Z8 or Mercedes SL?

    M
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,569
    Occasionally a Lexus hater trolls on a Lexus board such as the above. I agree with most observers that the SC interior is one of the most luxurious and ergonomic in the business. Most enthusiasts acknowledge that Lexus' and Audis are among the most well done interiors.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Typical Lexus tactics...you don't agree or ask for proof in the classic Lexus fashion, then you're a troll. Out with the names, pretty weak stance.

    If a MB fan posts something like my car gets more stares than a Lexus, the Lex fans (one like footie) would be asking for the only thing they can understand to prove it, a survey..and they'd be asking for such proof in a Benz board.

    maxhonda99......Read the E-Class topic, like say the last 20-25 posts and see if thats called "trolling".

    M
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,569
    regarding post #636, the poster says, "yada yada yada....."

    I say, "serenity now"

    (On this board, I smell a troll)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    If what I said was trolling and/or bashing then surely post #5234 in the E-Class forum is more of the same. It was made by a wandering poster that is severly limted to their survey clutching/preaching, that had no other intent than to stir up something. Period. The E-Class topic has been visted by this poster more than once for no other reason than to say much of nothing, even when nobody has spoken about the two cars in a comparitive way. I'm curious to know what topics do you think have been created with the sole intent on bashing Lexus?

    M
  • Bear with me a minute. In my (much) younger days, I could afford anchovies for my homemade pizza, but considered them too expensive for what I got. So I coined the "anchovy principle", which has stood me in good stead for many years.
    To wit...can I afford a Lexus SC430? Yes, I can. And I would like to own a sports car. I have an RX300 now, and love it, so I know about, and can appreciate, a Lexus. But at $62,000+ for the SC430, I begin to think of those anchovies. An RX8? A Z-car? Even a Boxster? Reliability is very important to me, and so is styling, so the Lexus continues to appeal. But it's SO expensive. What to do? Would appreciate some comments.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    are not my favorite pizza topping and I would never call the Lexus SC430 a "sports car", but I'm with you on wanting to see value in all of my purchases.

    If it's any consolation, I stuggled a bit with the value of trading up to a BMW M5 from a 540i a year and a half ago. The $20k difference seemed like a frivolous expenditure, even though it was not financially significant to me. But now that I've been driving the M5 for 18 months, I am very pleased with the decision and the incremental cost, long since forgotten, also seems more than justified.

    Of the three cheaper alternatives you mentioned, only the Boxster S at nearly $60k would have any appeal to me. The RX8 and 350Z are essentially mass market cars. The epitome of frugalness would be a $32k Honda S2000 with Boxster S performance, limited production exclusivity and Honda reliability. But it's about as far removed from the SC430 in terms of driving experience as you can get. I think it's a little gem of a car, but then again, I'm on the list to get a Lotus Elise.

    The question of value is one that only you can answer. But as a luxury GT convertible cruiser, I am of the opinion that the Lexus SC430 is fairly priced vis a vis its true competition (XK8, SL, CLK, etc.). You may, however, want to drive it a bit more before deciding between the SC and a true sports car alternative. You can spend nearly an equal amount on an SC430 or Boxster S and end up with a dramatically different driving experience.
  • While I can afford to pay upto 60 or 90 grand for a car
    I can only afford to do it ONCE! I think this is true for a larger majority of Luxury car buyers. So VALUE (ie ...the MOST car for the money) IS and should be important to most. Lexus
    still keeps this principle in mind when creating any car. Given that it is perceived (rightfully earned) as the best built /most reliable car you can buy.......Lexus prices have incresed over the years. That said......every Lexus car may not be "best" in every (or any) category compared to the likes of BMW, Mercedes or porsche.............but it oftn provides most of the goodness of these cars as well as adding
    increased Luxury and reliability at a LOWER price. THAT is value.

    The sc430 is in the same LUXURY league with mercedes SL (equal power, engine refinement, convertible hardtop, amenities etc) albeit not an equal performer......but 35-40 grand less!!!!.

    It is much more luxurious than a clk or many BMW's and porsche. And yet it is about the same price as many of these competitors. Granted if you want the BEST sportcar for the money.....THIS AIN"T IT!

    While I might want to own a new mercedes sl or porsche carrera (ultimate cars no doubt!!). I instead bought a USED SC430................and consequenty can afford to also own a jeep (offroading) a suburban (hauling and utility) a boat and 2 motorcycles with the 50 grand savings over a new "ultimate" car.

    So to real people who work 40-70 hrs a week......choosing a car based on VALUE! gets you the most out of life.

    D
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    But thats just it, a Lexus SC430 doesn't provide enough of the "goodness" of SL and especially a Porsche, those cars are more complete (SL) and are more so for driving (Porsche), which is the one area where the Lexus doesn't compare.

    I agree the SC430 is more luxurious than a CLK or a Boxster (a totally different type of car btw), but there is no BMW in the category, yet. The upcoming 6-Series BMW will probably blow the SC430 away along with the CLK next spring, for only 10K more than either the SC430 or CLK500 (projected). That is if you can stand the 6's rear end treatment, yuck!

    M
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    We just went out to dinner last night with friends that bought an SL55 about three months ago. It's truly a beautiful car but it's also been back to the dealership for more than a day 3 times for a variety of problems (electrical, engine management). By contrast, a neighbor of mine has put 30,000 miles on a 360 Modena over the last 18 months without a single unscheduled trip to service department.

    As much as you and I might distinguish between the performance of the standard SL500 and the SC430, neither are "driving enthusiast's" cars. Given that, I suspect some may pick the SC430 over the SL500 purely based upon the Lexus reputation for reliablity, especially as of late.

    I think Mercedes needs a quality/reliability overhaul. BMW undertok one about 7-10 years ago and it's paid big dividends. Mercedes needs to take notice that most of us who are or were customers don't think "Chrysler" reliability and long term quality is acceptable. There are other choices.
  • When there is ample evidence that Mercedes products approach or equal Lexus (or Acura or Infiniti) reliability.........only then will I consider a Mercedes. I am one of those buyer who will overlook Lexus shortcomings (ie fun to drive quotient) to own the BEST built most reliable cars on the road.

    Mercedes also needs to build the Best cars that don't ask for huge premiums over similar cars.

    I admit I am NOT a true "driving" enthusiast. But I do want my car to handle well in most everyday driving experiences. No one can fault
    Lexus for being anything but supremely competant,
    safe and reassuring.

    D
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oh trust me I'll knock Mercedes in this area until they do improve. My only issue with the whole reliability is that some think no Lexus ever has a problem and every Mercedes does. I've never denied that a problem existed, I only took issue with the depth of the problem. It seems Mercedes is fessing up about their electronic issue and they *seem* to honestly want to fix it.

    The fact that a Ferrari owner has been able to do 30k trouble free (somewhat of a miracle in itself) should send a wake up call to Mercedes, and according to some very recent press I think they're getting the picture.

    vetlex........this part is for you too..........you've both caught me on a day in which I had to drive an hour or more for work (mainly interstate) and I swear I must have seen about 12 SC430s... You name the color and it was present. I have no problem knocking Lexus' sedans or anyone else's for the matter when I don't like them, because truth be told I'm not crazy about 4-door cars, but it's hard for me to knock a GT car. So as I've stated before I can see why people would choose the SC430 over any of it's competitors, it's a reliable, comfortable, and a *interestingly* styled car, plus its a lot cheaper.

    M
  • Anyone concern about "value" in these leagues should simply buy used. A year old SC with 10/15K miles can be had for $45K, a 25% discount from sticker on a car that's ,at most, consumed 10% of it's useful miles. Move up a Benz and the discounts get better if you buy that there's still a 150K mile Benz being produced. Friend of mine just nailed a year old SL 55 for $75K. A guy he knows owned it, didn't like it and when he tried to trade the sports at MB offered him $70K. He sold it to my pal rather than letting MB make the profit. If you want to invest the time and can move quickly these deals are common....and the bigger the origional sticker the bigger the discount. The dealers are into these near new luxury cars dirt cheap and will occasionally blow one out just to move some cash. Deals are especially good if, for instance, you can find a Benz at your local Lexus dealer. Mine had a loaded up up E500 with 3K miles they blew out for $50K. Secret with the dealers is to offer them what you want to pay and walk if they balk.
  • That is the BEST way to own a GREAT car without overpaying. I saved almost 20 grand by buying a sc430 with about 30k miles. The more expensive the car the more it pays to buy it used. The previous owner had just bought a new SL for a "deal" (I think about 90 grand). Being able to pay cash is always a BIG advantage when buying any car..............espec hard to sell expensive luxury cars.

    D
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I somewhat agree with your point, but you didn't need to insert a BS story about the SL55 to make it.

    The first SL55's did not arrive in the US until about 5-6 months ago - there is no such thing as a one year old one. My "real" friend got the second one delivered to the entire Atlanta area - paid the $115k+ MSRP and was immediately offered $20k to flip the car by someone on the wait list. If he elected to sell today, he would have a line of buyers, starting with every wannabe Michael Jordan (who also drives an SL55) from the NBA.

    Better check your story or your friend. Perhaps he bought a closer to one year old SL500 that had been rebadged in the dark of night. Even then, at $70k, he would have gotten a good deal.
  • There is a SL55 at a MB dealership in lower Alabama that can be had for $70k or probably less in the near future. (I'll not name the dealership because I do not want to embarrass the purchaser of this unique car). The reason for the "deal" is the engine's main computer chip (I don't know which one or even what this is exactly) failed and the engine will not run properly. The dealership and (hopefully) all of MB have attempted to repair the car with no luck. MB initiated a buy-back on the originally priced $120k (with most if not all of the options) car. They offered the owner $90k! The car has less than 2000 miles on it. They stated they would only pay her that amount because the car "had problems." She is in arbitration now in an attempt to have the car declared a lemon. We had to do the same thing with a SLK. There is at least one other 2002 SL (not a 55) that I know MB had to buy back after arbitration. (We had the same lawyer).

    I have been told (by the same lawyer) that Lexus has NEVER been to arbitration for a manufacturer defect? They have resolved every problem in some way before ever having the situation escalate to that level.
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