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Comments
One tester said they didn't like the styling of the RX8. The RX8 was lauded for it's "oneness" with the driver and its interior compared to the G35C (which felt "heavy and hamfisted" in comparison....something I always felt about both the 350z and the G35c). They also "dinged" the RX8 for MPG (I wish they would get one that's broken in before they test).
They loved the RX8s tranny/shifter and described it as one of the best on the market. Then there's the always alluring love of the RENESIS' sound and smoothness.
No matter....as always, the RX8 won the review.
The accord is... well ... an accord. The handling is pretty average, and I found the shifter rubbery and clutch springy. Pretty disappointing to me that the company that produces the tranny and clutch in the S2000 also makes the one they've placed in the accord. Really not much of a driver's car at all.
The good side to it is the gas mileage and the interior. I would say that the resale value and reliability are strong points, too, and they are, but tough to compare to the RX8 since only time will tell that story. Given the strong resale of the RX7, the RX8 could follow those tracks and be the nontypical Mazda when it comes to used sales.
Honestly, although this is an RX8 board, I have to say that you won't go wrong with either choice. You would have much more fun in the RX, but you'll probably be much more comfortable in the Accord. Its not an easy choice sometimes to decide between those 2 things.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
They are both "cars". That's probably where the comparison ends.
What you have with the RX8 is a bonafied taste of what "super cars" give you....screaming 9K redline, razor sharp handling, light on its feet "feel" (kind of like dancing with Kate Hudson vs dancing with Kathy Bates). You get all of this without the punishing ride, nor sacrificing any of the luxury amenities (grand touring package).
I would think coming from an Integra, you'd probably find more to like about the RX8 than the Accord.
None of this is to say that the Accord is a bad car. It's just that one is a nice coup (the Accord) and the other is a top line sports car (the RX8).
As qbrozen said, the RX7s have a great reputation for resale. Based on history, I'd expect the RX8 to be more of the same.
The RX8 is never going to be an MPG champ. After break-in, you should get mid-high teens/low 20s MPG. The down side is, the RX8 "begs" to be driven hard, which will affect MPG. I never tire of taking mine above 7K RPM on a regular basis and spend a lot of time hitting redline just for the thrill of it. That affects my MPG more than anything else. If you drive it in the lower reaches of RPMs, your MPG is better, but where's the fun in that?
Rotaries, by design, will use some oil. Nothing to worry about there. Just keep an eye on the oil level every 2-3 fill-ups and you'll be fine.
Like you said, "it goes like stink" and "fits you like a glove".
So, my questions to you are, "do you want mundane" or "do you want to be thrilled every time you drive your car"?
LOL!
Well, if that doesn't bring howls of protest from the Honda contingent, I don't know what will. You should post that in the Accord Coupe thread.
8^)
:-)
I've got one of the first ones that hit these shores. Originally, when they delivered the first ones, there was concern about the longevity of the cat converters. I think the new CA emmissions rules stated that they had to last 100K miles. Mazda wasn't sure they could meet those new rules, so they "futzed" around with the ECU to "detune" it slightly to hit the requirement. The result was a little less HP and MPG.
While, it's still not something anyone knows with any amount of certainty whether the slight detuning actually will have an affect on the lifespan of the CATs, slowly but surely, Mazda has learned more and have instituted ECU reflashes to restore some of the power and MPG over time.
The "M" reflash is the latest of those. I had the reflash done at my dealer a couple of months ago. The result is better MPG (now getting about 17 MPG in all town driving and about 22-23 MPG in all highway....about 19 MPG in mixed driving). Power feels "up", too.
When I originally did some "unofficial" testing (passenger using a stop watch), I did a 6.3 sec 0-60 and a mid 14 sec 1/4 with a 4K-4.5K RPM launch.
Just by seat of the pants and since break-in is over, I'd say I could shave a 1/10th or two off the 0-60 and 1/4 numbers with the same sort of launch with the "M" reflash.
It's been widely docummented that the original ECU last year would yield an under 6 sec 0-60 with an 8K-8.5K RPM launch. The new reflash should beat those numbers if someone was possessed to try it.
There's also a "piggyback" PCB that you can add to the ECU which changes the fule maps that's made by a 3rd party. I don't know if it nets much more than the Mazda "M" reflash, though.
The expert on that unit is "pathstar". He drops in here from time-to-time so he can give more information regarding the 3rd party PCB by canzoomer.
Gotta love Mazda for rebirthing the RX in such great form.
rorr...seriously, nothing against the Accord coupe, but cross shopping it with the RX8 isn't something I think most folks would do. I won't go over to the Accord Coupe thread since there isn't anything over there that I think would interest me. I'm certain I wouldn't be welcomed with "open arms".
Slightly OT: anybody know where I can get info regarding the actual Renesis motor and tranny dimensions and weight? I'm kicking around the idea of building a Lotus 7 kit using either an RX-8 or S2000 drivetrain but I don't know which engine is the most compact/lightest.
I had a service the other day - got the new AC amplifier and the "M" flash. But I am still on that tank of gas. I will check out the mpg.
rorr - I am curious why you want to build a kit car from a fine, fine RX8. Sounds like an interesting project!!
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I can tell you the RENESIS will be more compact than the engine in the S2000 just by "eyeballing" them both.
Let us know if you decide to do the RENESIS/Lotus kit. I'd be interested in hearing how it turns out.
In the past, I've been tempted to order one of the "kit cars" and put one together. My fear was always that I'd get 1/2 way through it, get tired of it, and it would sit for years in my garage strewn all over the place. The ones I looked at used either a Ford or GM small block, though.
Cheeze, it wasn't so long ago you were getting admiring female glances. What happened?
I'm in the first semi-serious relationship I've had in a while. The good news is, she couldn't care less what I drove (I think)......
Ummmm, approx. 240hp in a 1250lb car. Over 1.0 g skidpad and 60-0 braking in 100ft. Of course, you don't get such niceties as AC.....or a radio...or a top....or operating windows....
gguy - Do you know of a technical forum somewhere that could get me the actual rough dimensions and weight of the engine and tranny for the Renesis? If I do this project, it probably won't be for a year or so (need to finish my '66 Mustang FB and sell it to finance the Lotus project), but I'm leaning toward the rotary engine (Rotus 8?) because I figure better availability of parts cars (higher production #'s for the RX8 vs the S2k).
Kimmer - As for the Accord Coupe V6 / RX-8 comparison, if you are a car enthusiast and don't mind the extra maintenance necessary, then choose the RX-8. I doubt you have any Accord owners that feel the same way graphic does about his RX-8. Obviously, RX-8 owners have a special relationship with their cars. I think cheeseboy even stated he slept inside his car one lonely night. You just don't have Accord owners doing that unless they can't find a hotel. However, if you want to save several thousand and still get a fully loaded vehicle, the Accord V6 Coupe is definitely not a bad choice. The 240 HP V6 engine is definitely strong enough for most people and the coupe's styling is attractive. Also, proven resale and reliability are two things that the Accord always has going for it. You know what you are looking for in a car so the decision should be simple.
Graphic - How does the reflash that you've gotten improve power AND gas mileage? I would think it would improve one by taking from the other. You need to take your vehicle to the track so you can show us some official times!
Rorr - No, seriously, why?
Since the Renesis has very similar power/torque output, I was simply curious about the possiblity of using that drivetrain in lieu of the Honda. Also, I figured that given the higher production #'s for the RX-8, it would be easier to pick up a wrecked car with a usable drivetrain than it would be to get an S2000.
You'll find your answers there (plus a lot more).
Carliker....where have you been? Talking to my mechanic, he said the fuel maps on the very first first batch of RX8s that arrived here were a "hack job" (his words). He said he could tell they were done "on the fly" without much thought given to anything other than getting them certified to sell in the U.S. He said what most of us knew....the new emmissions regs effect on cat converters somehow caught Mazda by surprize. He also said he wouldn't be surprised if some manufacturers will have problems with the '04 cats further down the line as most manufacturers use the cats based on the same technology. He did give kudos to Mazda for being more proactive instead of waiting 4-5 years for these things to start failing in large numbers. This, coming from a guy who has been a tech on rotaries for 15 years + and a bonafied rotary afficianado (he owns one of each generation).
Mazda has (and continues to) test different fuel maps to improve MPG and power to the RENESIS. The Tech said the "rich" state of the original maps has been almost totally eliminated. That in turn caused low end and mid-range power to be more efficient and burn less fuel. The end result is more power low to mid RPMS while smoothing out acceleration all the while using less gas.
While power delivery was always smooth, it wasn't always linear when I first got my car. There were always a couple of "bumps" powerwise with the original ECU version. Now, the only bump I get is when the extra ports open up. Acceleration is much more linear and stronger from lower RPMs. Overall, my MPG went up by about 10%-15%, too. Instead of getting 16 MPG in combined driving, I'm getting between 17 MPG and 19 MPG. It'll still dip down on occasion, but that's only in severe all stop & go driving with the A/C blasting. Plus, I'm known to wind it out to 7K RPM in 1st until I hit the next red light, over and over again....never taking it out of 1st in congested traffic. That's not a good way to get decent MPG.
There are other benefits to the "M" flash as well. It helps to reduce flooding by delaying the cold start rev up a few seconds (previously occasionaly the PCM would try to rev up an engine that wasn't actually running - a sure fire way to flood it!).
The car still idles rich. Hopefully they will find a way to address that.
The only thing I can say is I "try" to stay out of "drag races" (although, every neon honda/toyota/mitsubishi that pulls up next to me tries to get me to "run them"). I (mostly) drive the speed limit. I rarely launch at upper RPMs. I always use cruise control when I'm on the highway. I don't drive in rush hour (have an office in my home, so no need to fight morning and afternoon traffic log jams).
Outside of that, I don't do anything special.
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=longtermtests&loc_code=index&content_code=09999938
The last quote written in the article reminded me of a couple people on these posts. Just kidding!
Having been one of the original members of a "start-up's" management team (when being with a start-up was considered "cool"), it was decided early on that having access to e-mail, voice mail, cell phones, etc really precluded having an office with a secretarial staff. It certainly is cheaper for the company (no office lease, no renting/buying office furniture, no secretarial staff) and convenient for me since I had a room in my home that I could turn into an office.
If I need to be somewhere else, I have to fly there anyway. So, the only commuting I really do in my car is back and forth to the airport, and that's usually in "off hours".
As the tech industry got "squeezed" a couple of years ago, the idea of having a home office had monetary advantages for the company over having a "real" office. Plus, it's kept us a "lean and mean" company regarding expenses.
The downside...I have to travel back and forth to our headquarters in San Francisco from my Ohio home once/mo. The other downside is, I'm one of those people who can't stand to hear the phone ring and not pick it up. That can be a problem since I get phone calls at all hours from Europe and the Pacific Rim, where the time differences are dramatic. My office is right outside my bedroom, too. Plus, being in a home office, it's way too easy to run into the office, day or night, to put an e-mail out for the one "idea" I think everyone should know about, or to follow-up on that one "thing" that had been perplexing me during the day.
It's worked out well for both the company and me. I don't think I could go back to commuting every day and fighting traffic.
Whenever we hire someone these days, it's imperative that we can trust them to actually work out of a home office and not be tempted to roll into the office at 8:45 or leave at 3:30, or even to not go out and cut the grass during the work day. Those people are tougher to find than you might imagine.
Regarding the article you posted..."I resemble that remark"!!!!!!!
For all intents and purposes, none of these cars, whether they be a Z, a Corvette, or any other sports car (with the possible exception of the S2000) are going to get any sort of sterling MPG in stop & go traffic. My sister has a Mustang SVT convertible. She's getting 12 MPG on average since all of her driving is "in town" stop and go. As an owner and as the trade rags mention, I don't think most of us care about MPG all that much given the driving experience provided.
I agree with you....real enthusiasts don't seem to put MPG near the top of priorities. I myself don't even care about 0-60 times. I totally disregard both. Either a car drives and feels and looks great or it doesn't. I could care less about statistics on paper...except maybe the sticker price
graphic - How is the Vibe working out for you? Do you get the same looks from the young women that you do with your RX-8?
Even frumpy soccer moms sneer at me when I park it next to their minivans, Explorers and MDXs. They laugh at me as they "burn me" taking off at stop lights to rub salt into my sore ego.
That said, I'm getting 32+ MPG. I can haul all my lawn equipment & furniture in it and all the mulch I would need for the mext 5 or so years. It will cruise at 75-80 MPH all day on the highway with no complaint and is confortable. I like it.
When I jump back into the RX8, my world transforms. Young women give me the "thumbs up". People still stop me at the gas pump and grocery store to tell me how "cool" my car is. Men in Boxter's give me worried looks. And, I feel like I can enter LeMans......AND WIN! Delusional on my part, I know! The sweet rotary sound comes rushing over me and I just have to take it to redline at least half the time I'm driving it.
Of course, the driving experience between the two couldn't be more opposite.
Shifty....I thought you had left us. Glad to see you're back. Can I start a Vibe/Matrix vs RX8 thread?
If I hadn't got the deal I got on the Vibe, I would have looked seriously at a Merc GM as the 2nd car to complement my RX8.
They're being advertised around here for about $18K. That was about $5K-$6K more than I wanted to spend. The used ones were really "used up". I couldn't find the ones that were driven by old men, or in your case, young men.
Usually the minivan crowd just gets in my way...no matter which car I'm driving. Their drivers just seem clueless to what's going on around them. I guess they're too busy with what's playing on those DVD players in the back seat when no one is back there to see the show.
You know, and this is JUST ME and my two cents---I've found over the years that the more a car compromises to please more people, the less interesting it is to drive. (No, I didn't say the "L" word).
If you look at a list of the Automobile Hall of Fame for car enthusiastics and collectors, very few if any of those cars have bent over backwards to be "nice". They are all in your face one way or the other and most have very conspicuous "faults". Interestingly, people are sort of like that too.
So, all hail the RX-8 for its individuality and character!
Though there are a few exceptions, I've experienced two types of mini-van drivers. You can tell usually if a man or woman is behind the wheel. The men drive exceedingly fast to compensate for not having a sports car and the women drive exceedingly slow as if they are going through driver's ed.
Now, back on topic...anyone hear of the possible changes to the '05 RX-8 except for colors?
That's all Mazda has announced up to now.
This is not to say different option packages may not be offered. These are different in each country, and may change from year to year as well.
I'd love to see the backup assist offered.
I decided I needed to make a change to spice myself up a bit. I got hair plugs. Decided to apply "fake tan" to make me look more continental. Then I decided to start drinking "apple martinis" and hanging out with the "in crowd", wearing Prada clothes and disussing the world events in Luxemborg.
That all changed when I got my RX8. That's when buxom, half shirted and tattooed female teens started lounging on the hood of my car. The rest is history;-)
carliker....I'm serious when I mentioned I liked the Grand Marquis. Nothing against your Mystique (descendant of the much heralded European Mondeo), but I find the idea of a V8 engine in a RWD car that can hold the entire population of Luxemborg very appealing.
bigmike....I won't ever denigrate anyone who buys a Corvette. I think it's a great blend of performance and everyday driveability....much like the RX8. Truth told, if I was in the market today, with the deals you can get on the C5 (even better for me since I qualify for the GM employee discount through my brother-in-law), I would have thought long and hard about buying one over my RX8.
Stop by from time-to-time to report back on your 'Vette experiences and have fun with your ride.
I happened upon a Bentley dealer downtown. They had exactly one Bentley Coupe in the showroom.
What they did have in the showroom was probably the most extensive line-up of exotic vehicles in one place I've ever seen.
They had 2 Lambos....a Diablo and a Murcielago. They also had 2 Ferraris....a Spider and a Testarossa.
They had a couple of 911 turbos and the first in person look I've ever seen of a Lotus Elise....the least expensive car they had for sale (about $46K all loaded up).
You would have "drooled" at the sight.
My jaw literally dropped at the sight of such exquisite machinery.
They wanted a credit check done before they allowed me to sit in any of them. I sheepishly declined. They did, however, let me look into them and even "touch" them.
It was better than any car show I've ever been to.
They acknowledged that I was there with head nods, but that was about it. I asked if I could sit in the Diablo and one of the "suited" guys offered to have me "come upstairs to do a financial disclosure" first. At that point, I declined and he declined letting me sit in it.
It's not like they were busy, but I understand that they probably work by appointment only and to pre-qualified buyers at the price point these cars sell for. That said, they do have an open showroom with people able to walk in. I can't imagine many folks walking off the street and saying "Hey, I was passing by and saw that Lambo in your showroom. Do you have any other colors in stock? Do you have any rebates, currently?"
The Lotus does have a "dunebuggy" appearance. The one they had seemed to be outfitted better than the pics I've seen, though. It had A/C, carpet, and leather seats. It was bright yellow. And yes, they are really small.
They were taking orders. The only way to do a test drive was to agree to purchase one first. Then they would order one (which would take 6 months for delivery).
I spent the better part of an hour there and no one hassled me. They pretty much ignored my pressence, every once in a while glancing my way to make sure I wasn't trying to sneak in some "seat time". Everything but the Porsches and one Ferrari (which had the doors already open) were locked however.
I can see why dealers don't want people to test drive their vehicles, but I still couldn't purchase a vehicle I've never driven. They could ask for a deposit perhaps, but to purchase the vehicle before a test drive (and then having to wait six months), no way. They should reserve the financial checking for a person who wants to test drive a vehicle. Also, I could see if the place was crowded, but how much of a threat would you be just to sit in the car? I wonder if you need to have your finances checked just to get helped at one of those showrooms. Thanks for the info. graphic!
The dealer I eventually bought from tossed me the keys of their demo model and told me to take a test drive before even talking money. The sales person went with me, but that was OK. I ended up buying mine for $1,000 off MSRP when they were selling for "sticker". I thought I had made a good deal. From what I understand, the deals are even better than that, now.
I told them I was interested and they went to their "order" status sheet to see what cars they had coming in that would fit what I was looking for. Once we found one, we got to the money part.
In my opinion, that's the way you present a car for purchase.
On the other hand, I wasn't looking at cars that cost 6 figures and wasn't in it for a joy ride. That said, I don't know that I'd be interested in a $45K Lotus without a test drive. Put me in the driver's seat and let me take it for a brief spin, and that may change. We all know how emotional one gets when test driving a car.
I can't imagine someone who is interested in plunking down $40K-$50K, even moreso, $150K and not take a test drive before buying.
When Mazda was offering the "buyback", I looked at my 2nd choices, again. The G35 coupe had just hit the streets at the same time. Surprisingly, the local Infiniti dealer offered $3K off any of the ones they had in stock at the time...knowing I already had the RX8. I ran into a Nissan dealership that wouldn't even let me sit in the 350Z without a deposit. Again, that's crazy....particularly given the sharp drop in 350Z sales from '03 to '04 and how the RX8 has been trouncing the Z/G in all the trade rags.
Heck, I can go to the nearest Chevy dealer and test drive a 'vette without any hassle. It helps when I drive up in the RX8, though.
bigmike - you made a great choice. Ya can't go wrong with a vette! Not my style, but a classic, great car. Enjoy! And thank you for the kind words on my "Shima" web page. More pictures will be coming!
gguy - you totally made me feel spoiled! In the last 2 weeks, I've seen one of each of the cars you mentioned! Yes, while down at South Beach, some very handsome latino was driving on the crappy little roads down there in a Bentley Coupe and gave me a nod when we were next to each!!(stuck in traffic, of course!!) Just the other day I saw the Lotus drive by. Cute little thing, but man, it has no space! Guess that's not the reason for buying one - hauling stuff! Plus, last night I saw a Lotus Espirt at Polo Topical! Ya gotta get down here, gguy, and see the "daily drivers" some people have.
Regardless, I still think my 'Shima' looks better than them all (except for that Countach thing). And since the new AC amp was installed, things are working great! Gotta love this car, eh? :-)
In the cosopolitan cities, I know there are more "exotics" than what I see around my conservative little 'burg. The nearest Lambo dealer is about 150 miles away, however. That explains why I have to go to the big city to see these machines.
As it stands, there are about 4 RX8 owners around here that I know. I'm sure there are others, but I haven't had the occasion to meet them. Going to concours shows, I still get gawks and stares with mine.