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Mazda RX-8

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  • No.. actually I am keeping my Envoy. I am just looking for a second car to use during the spring/summer months.

    I will continue to use the Envoy during the fall/winter months and garage the second vehicle.
    Basically, I have come to the conclusion that my Envoy SLT XL is a little too long for everyday driving. Sometimes I just want to go someplace rather quickly without having to worry about finding a large enough parking space, etc.

    Hope that helps to clarify.

    Thanks again!

    IExplore2000
  • carlikercarliker Posts: 285
    I understand your situation completely. Sometimes it happens the other way around when you don't really want to squeeze inside a smaller car/roadster and want more space. I can see driving that big vehicle around can become difficult especially with how small some parking lots are.

    habitat1 - That is odd. I imagine that if you get around 30 when the EPA rating was 26, the people rating just assumed that the new type engine will use more gas. I don't know what goes on in the testing or whether they just estimate without doing real performance tests. Like your BMW example, they have made mistakes before.
  • Regarding the oil pan issue, there is already a TSB for it. Our local dealer has already changed the oil pan and sensor on the in stock RX-8's.

    I drove one before the change and the oil light did come on for a few seconds while I drove it over the course of a full weekend but the oil level was fine. The last one I drove over the weekend never had the light come on because of the fix and I never experienced any hard starts or flooding. I may be getting one soon so I will follow up with my thoughts and comments.

    Also, a friend of mine who owns an S2000 just bought an RX-8, and he really likes it but says he does not really think the two are comparable because of the vast differences. He likes them both for what they are and leaves it at that.

    Kirk
  • >Regarding the oil pan issue, there is already a >TSB for it.
    What's TSB and is there a TSB Number with it so I can call up my dealer to inquire.
  • >Yes, you can flood a rotary engine a bit easier >than a piston one. I've never flooded my 3rd gen >RX-7 in 6 years of ownership. It just takes a >bit of common sense. It doesn't have to be towed >if it does flood. Unflooding system is built in >hold gas pedal to floor and crank in 10 sec. >increments until it starts - this cuts off fuel >injection).

    What's the best way to avoid flooding in the first place then?
    I've heard that you'll need to take out the fuse for the fuel injection while doing the unflooding procedure.
  • Ok I have had my 8 since August 22,03. I've been in for service 4 times.
    Oil pan and sensor fix worked fine.
    Car gets about 14 mpg. I drive hard so its my lead foot I suppose.
    Oil consumption is about 1 quart per 1000 miles.
    Handling is amazing anyone who says otherwise has not driven this car.
    Top speed I have driven is 117 felt like 65 mph.
    My CEL light has gone on twice and then off have to go to service and have it checked.
    This car is the closest thing to driving a motorcycle on 4 wheels. Just amazing handling in the rain or dry pavement. No snow in Florida so I don't know about that issue.

    6,555 happy miles on my 8 and it is still just as tight as when new.
    Anyone know the real facts on the chip re programing issue. Both Mazda and my service dealer say nothing out yet. My car runs very rich black soot on the exhaust is as much a pain to clean as the brake dust on the wheels
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    I know they run very rich during warmup but lean out after they warm up.

    1 quart per 1000 miles is kinda severe in my book.
  • Just wanted to post on some of the issues recently brought up.

    I'm pretty sure my car was flooded while it was at the body shop for a few weeks. When I picked it up and first started it, white smoke blew out the back and it smelled pretty funny, so I think they flooded it and unflooded it some time before I got it back. I, myself, have not flooded the car.

    Flooding is an issue you have to be aware of, but it is relatively simple to avoid. It should be stated that it really isn't good for ANY car to be shut off before it fully warms up. I avoid that scenario whenever I can. However, if you simply CAN'T WAIT for it to warm up, graphicguy's suggestion of revving the engine up to, say, 4000 rpm for 5 seconds or so and then shutting off the engine as it winds back down WILL keep the car from flooding. So, simple enough.

    As for oil usage, my car has 6900 miles on it. I had the oil changed at 5000 miles (according to Mazda's severe maintenance schedule) and added 1 quart during those 5000 miles. I've got 1900 miles since the oil change and just added a 1/2 quart today. The oil usage isn't really that bad. It will use more oil if you drive it at high RPMs constantly, though.

    And you don't have to check the oil every time you fill up the car. I just check mine every other weekend or so. Once you see how much oil yours uses, you can decide how often it needs to be checked.

    My gas mileage was around 22-23 mpg in mostly highway driving when I first got the car. It has dropped back to around 20 since winter hit. I think crappy winter gas has something to do with that. Either way, I'm not ecstatic, but I can certainly live with that kind of mileage.

    Yeah, the rotary takes just a bit more attention than other engines. But this car is so much fun, and gets such a great reaction from everyone, that I just can't view these few little things as a problem.

    Best of luck to all who are considering the RX-8!
  • r2s2r2s2 Posts: 93
    If people are entitled to their opinion about their criticisms of the RX-8, then so are those of us who like the RX-8. I find those who swoop in from nowhere and in the course of a day or two, after asking for "advice," ignore it and go their own way, a little suspicious. Motokichi had a "short and uninformative" test drive of the RX-8, and based on that decided on a used Honda? How could he have seriously been considering the RX-8. I wonder why he came here at all. iexplore suggests that Mazda put a non-rotary engine in the RX-8 (aw, c'mon) and says he'll buy a 350Z or G35C. Latex asks about the RX-8 and goes off and drives an Acura. You may think me rude, but I am asking simple questions about these non-sequiturs. Let's talk about the glories of the RX-8 now.
  • flatsoflatso Posts: 24
    Does anyone want to comment on the black soot on the tailpipe and the chance that the catalyst converter might become clogged quite quickly.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,100
    Like zoomer, I've had my RX8 since the first week of August.

    No significant oil useage. I had my first oil change a 5K miles. Service tech said it was down "a little" but I don't know how much.

    I check my oil in all my cars about every 2nd or 3rd fill-up and saw nothing in particular that would lead me to believe my RX8 will use a lot of oil.

    My MPG is also in the low 20s on the highway (best I got was 26 MPG, all highway with the cruise set at 75 MPH). I get 19 MPG in mixed driving, although that number has dropped a couple of MPG since they changed over to "winter formulations" at the gas stations around me. I suspect my MPG will go back up come Spring.

    The engine does run a little rich when started cold. As soon as it warms up (very quick warm-up), it gets back to normal. The upside to that scenario is that you can get the RX8 off the line real quick when cold. That's the cause of the "black stuff" on the tailpipes. In fairness, I've yet to own a car with chrome tailpipes that doesn't collect some form of exhaust "gunk".

    I've never had even a hint of flooding in mine, but the few that have state the answer is to "blip" the throttle a little during shut down. This burns off any unburnt fuel in the combustion chamber.

    The reason Mazda had to "re-state" power ratings of the RENESIS is because new CA emissions regs state that the catalytic converters must be "guaranteed" to last at least 120K miles. Since the cat converter supplier to Mazda couldn't make that guarantee, Mazda had to make changes to the fuel mapping system of the engine to make certain that the cats will be within CA regs at 120K miles. This was happening as the first RX8s were hitting U.S. ports. Mazda had no choice but to do something on their end (reprogramming the ECUs) as opposed to finding a new CAT supplier on such short notice. In my mind, this wasn't a case of Mazda being to blame, but one of their suppliers "dropping the ball". That said, Mazda stepped up and took care of those (like me and like zoomer) who had pre-ordered their cars.

    My guess would be that Mazda is looking for a new catalytic converter supplier about right now.

    TSBs (technical service bulletins) and the VIN #s affected are available at your dealer's service depts. I would imagine that every car currently in dealer inventory (or those delivered in the last month or so) have the new oil sensors and oil pan baffles already installed.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    I was looking for a G35 coupe but ended up buying a 03 Accord coupe. I couldn't justify the price vs. the cheap feeling interior. The performance was a secondary consideration. Everyone looking at the RX8 may have several different reasons for considering it and when someone says it has a couple of tendencies that are inherent in the engine design , that may be enough to convince them it's not the car for them.

    I know I don't want to check my oil that often any more. Especially when you have many cars, even performance ones, that are more or less maintenance free between service stops. As has been said before, there are several cars that offer great handling, lots of power, AND a great price. Even used S2000's.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,100
    Congrats on the new Accord.

    However, if I were you, I'd check the oil in it every few fillups. Just a very quick way to insure the longevity of your engine as all cars will burn some oil. It takes less than 15 seconds while you're filling up.
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    As stated above, to avoid flooding, fully warm up the car before shutting it off. Just drive around the block if you are moving it for washing. Reving it to 3-4k RPM and turning off the key will let the engine coast down without the injectors firing, and should pump out any excess fuel, but some report they did this and still flooded it. Most important, DO NOT touch the gas pedal when starting.

    Those of us with older RX-7s call the tailpipe stuff "smoot" (attempt at humour I guess). It's a mixture of carbon soot and half burned oil. In the case of the RX-8 it's mostly the carbon soot, but there is always some oil from the oil injection.

    To meet the above mentioned 120K mile cat life, Mazda had to cool the cat when the engine was above 6000 RPM. To do this they programmed in excess fuel without air to burn it. Yes, they produce HC. No, this isn't tested for so is considered ok. I'm told they are more concerned with NOx than HC.

    FYI, an aftermarket tuner group that I've been working with has come up with a modification (electronics) that fixes the extra rich mixture (and sets it correctly at almost all RPMs and loads) and gives about 25 extra HP. We saw the extra fuel in our dyno tests, just to confirm what a Mazda rep. told the community at the Seven Stock 6 rotary gathering last fall in California.

    Of course, we would expect the cat. on cars so equipped to not last 120 k miles, but personally I think that is a silly thing to expect anyway. What the govt. body (CARB?) that mandated this should have done was require cat replacement after XX k miles, so HC and NOx would be controlled at all times.

    Joys of having the Govt. tell you what to do.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    Actually since January I've gotten rid of the coupe and bought an EX-L sedan and a Si Coupe both of which have 10,000 mile intervals. I check it about every 3500 miles like I always have.

    I know it's been said that all cars burn oil but I've only had three cars that required me to check it regularly after break in. Two of them were RX7's and the other car had other issues and 160,000 miles on it.

    Rotaries have always had high exhaust temps too. I know the RX7 actually went so far as to have a warning light for the exhaust system. AND the exhaust was kinda sooty. Especially if you drove it hard. Incidentally hard driving also increases oil consumption.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,100
    Are you involved with the testing of the "aftermarket" ECU?

    If so, how have your tests gone?
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    is what it's called (Canzoomer's), and it's a piggy-back device. Works very well. The car is much closer to my 3rd gen RX-7 now in accelleration. Stage 2 may closly match or surpass my RX-7. We are just now "mass producing" them for shipment to those who have ordered already. So far everyone who has one installed is thrilled with the results. It goes inside the ECU plastic box under the hood, and no wiring mods are required - plug and play.

    Nice to be involved (even to the small extent I was) with something that works so well.
  • Is it Massachusetts emissions legal?
  • cheezeboycheezeboy Posts: 218
    Hey pathstar.....I take it the device works on the Auto. Has anyone you know used it on an Auto? Curious to find out! I like the thought of putting my RX8 back to the way Mazda had intended when designed!!....wheee!!!
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,100
    To my understanding, the "canzoomer" Stage 1 "mod" isn't available for "automatic" equipped cars. I'm sure some if it is because of lower demand. From what I can gather, the RX8 ECU controls practically the whole car....right down to the power steering. The "re-programming" involved is extensive and you'd have to do another re-program specific to the auto trannys.

    That said, if there would be enough demand, I'm sure canzoomer would consider it.

    Keep in mind the fact that if your dealer finds this mod, warranty is void (operative statement is "IF your dealer finds it").

    pathstar...have you done any performance or MPG testing?
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