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Mazda RX-8

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Comments

  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Hopefully Mazda will fix the 8 for the slushbox set, since in its current build (4 speeds, less power) I would not recommend it.

    I would not recommend getting an underpowered car with the intention of trying to boost it to acceptable levels of power. I would think that is a road to disappointment.

    If you are crawling in FL traffic all the time - the 8 runs pretty hot (see the new recall for melting gas tanks) and has a pretty weak A/C. Couple that with you not wanting the manual tranny and you might want to look at something else?

    Or do like I do - get your wife her own (auto) car and then you can get what you want!

    :)

    Dennis
  • secondcitysecondcity Posts: 28
    I have read and re-read the excellent advice given by pathstar and countless others on the types of winter tires---I appreciate everyone's input.

    My last question on this subject is... Would four "all season tires" work as a replacement for the current summer sport tires on the existing wheels?-- Will that get me through a winter in Chicago, or should I spend the money on the winter tires and wheels.? I have a short two year lease--and I did not realize I would be paying another $1200-$1400 on tires and possibly wheels too. I hate to sound cheap-but I'd like to save a few bucks.
    -- Other than this minor hassle--the car is amazing!

    I know Pathstar bought the 17 inch wheels to gain better clearance as snow builds up in the wheel well / and I know a majority of people have opted for the Blizzaks LM 22's. Your response to all-season tires would be appreciated--
    Thanks.
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    (punishable by death) to compare this amazing car to anything GM can crank out. I came from a die-hard "buy American" family and I adhered to that until a few years ago. The car that changed my life was a 2001 Pontiac Grand Am, 5 speed. I would have gladly given the car away and continued to make the payment just to never have to see it again. The first dealer that quoted me anywhere near pay-off got the sale. To say I hated it is an understatement.

    The RX8 is a great car, but I wouldn't even consider the auto (and I'm a female).
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    sent me a nice letter talking about how important MAZDA service is for the rx8 and it had a business card-type thing you could pull off. It has my dealer address, phone number, my service manager's name, the service dept hours and my car's VIN to put in your wallet. Also, I got a free bottle of touch-up paint and it's even the right color for my car. Boy, it's really yellow in that little bottle.

    On the flipside to car customer service, just sent in a nasty survey for warranty work on the BF's 2004 Chevy Duramax. That ignorant thing goes to the shop every couple of weeks for some irritating little "thing" or something else. He saw my nice little Mazda package today and said "Damn, I spent twice the amount you did on a vehicle and all I get are recall notices, leaks, rattles and paint peeling off plastic."
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    The Nokian WR tires we got are all season. They do have less traction in summer compared to the stock tires, but they work just fine. They are called "all season performance tires" but aren't cheap. You could just get them in stock size, no reason why not. We are happy we got 17", and are now converting the summer setup to 17". The car handles much better with 17" wheels.

    I just put Nokian WR (suv) tires on my Pathfinder last fall. They are great - winter and summer. The SUV designation indicates they are a little "stiffer" to withstand the "incredible" weight of the Pathfinder. ;) (4400 lbs).
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I have a '96 Subaru Legacy wagon with over 100k on the clock (now) that I picked up "cheap" just for snow days. The AWD + 4 snow tires is AMAZING - and I don't get any road salt on the "good cars".

    Dennis
  • dtopgeardtopgear Posts: 8
    Saw a 0-60 time on the auto of 9.0 seconds. That’s screwed. No auto for me. Really want that paddle shifter though. As for the AC, this is something that the Mazda really needs to bring in some Ford engineers to solve. Don’t know why but Japanese can’t seem to build proper AC!?! We have an element that just keeps barely up with the heat. Parents have a 10 year old jeep that can turn itself into a meat locker if you want. Oh and the wife can drive an auto, she just likes…shall we say…multitask in the car. Auto makes that safer.

    Was I making a comparison of a Mazda to a GM? Hell no lhess. Just a contrast. Mazda, excellent cars…GM, good for building artificial barrier reefs. ;) Take it got a yellow one. That’s another think that I’m hoping will reappear for 2006.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,257
    GM, good for building artificial barrier reefs

    Now, that's funny!

    I do agree....Mazda needs to get Ford involved with the A/C and to get stronger FoMoCo batteries for the 8.
  • mthmsimmthmsim Posts: 4
    For the first time in 10 yrs I'm buying a new car and looking for something fun/sporty. Researched and looked at quite a few and after some test drives narrowed it down to Nissan 350z, Honda s2000, and RX-8. Though it's a great car, I'm dropping the Z due to cost, stiff ride, and the "feel" of the ride. That leaves two very different cars to decide from. I've driven both and will probably test drive once more. The RX is very cool. Smooth-shifting ride, 4-doors with useable back seats, stylish looks, fun to drive, etc. In my research, including reading many posts here I've come across some RX-related issues. Any answers/commentary would be appreciated. Thanks in advance [ want 6 spd manual only, probably touring package and will keep my 10yr old Integra as winter wheels].

    1. Is the flooding issue merely an annoyance, just something to be careful of?
    2. Is everyone getting the bad gas mileage figures I keep hearing about (15mph and less)?
    3. There is some chatter about oil lights(coming on), check engine lights, power loss, engine replacement etc. etc. Are these problems isolated or more common?
    4.Any other complaints/issues/problems?
    5. Looking in Boston area, very few available with Nordic Green Mica, and these only in automatic. Is this an uncommon/rare color or am I not looking had enough?
    6. Sales figures I've seen are abysmal for this car. The guy at the dealer I test drove at has left two messages for me asking if I bought something/am I still interested. I suspect a great deal can be had on one of these. Is invoice (or less) not out of the question?

    I know this is a lot, so any feedback would help. I guess the quality/reliability issue and fuel (in)efficiency are my main worries with what otherwise seems to be an awesome car that is a great value. :confuse:
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,257
    First and foremost, the RX8 is one of the most fun sports cars on the market.

    But, to address your issues.....

    --flooding is only an issue if you shut the car down before it warms up. As long as you get the car up to operating temps, you shouldn't have any issues.
    --MPG will be all over the map. The RENESIS does not like to idle. So, if you're in heavy, stop & go traffic all day, you're MPG will be low. After break-in, I consistently got about 16-17 MPG in city driving, and about 21-24 MPG in all highway driving....exactly as I expected.
    --I don't think there's anything widespread about warning lights coming on in general, but a good rule of thumb is to check the oil level every 3-4 fill-up (a good habit with any car). The RENESIS is designed to use a bit of oil, so it's nothing to be alarmed about as long as you keep an eye on it.
    --I don't know what the sales figures are for the RX8. They came out of the gate "on fire" saleswise last year. I will admit that over the past few months, there seems to be a ton of them on the dealer's lots, though. I don't know if Mazda overestimated the sales, or that sales dropped off that dramatically.

    Bottom line, the RX8 is one of the most rewarding driving experiences you can get from a car at it's price (especially at the discounts dealers are offering now). Is it a little quirky? Yep! But, you'll be hard pressed to find anything that offers what the 8 does at what looks like a selling price of about $24-$25K.
  • trispectrispec Posts: 305
    We should team up. I can't get any dealers in Boston dealer to call me back. I'm very interested, but I simple don't want to make a suckers offer on the RX 8, when like you, I keep hearing of great discounts.

    I went to the Mazda Gallery in Norwood. I played the whole game, test drive, give all my contact info, wait while the sales guy talks to the manager, confirm I'm really interested again, wait some more, then talk to the manager himself. The sales guy was really nice and the test drive was long and lots of fun and his manager seemed nice enough too, but if you remember the scene in Nemo where Nemo and Dori meet up with the sharks who were swearing off eating fish, that's what the dealership felt like. I don't mind swimming with the sharks, but when I'm the live bait dangling on the hook and they don't bite, what's up with that?

    Anyway good luck and lets us know how things go.
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    A few observations.

    First, it looks like Mazda overestimated RX-8 sales in the US. US dealers got a lot of cars for a while there. Here in Canada, we didn't see that, and I haven't seen discounted prices.

    Second, if you think you can get $1000 or more below a local purchase, it seems to me it would be advantageous to travel to buy. An airline ticket and hotel stay would cost you less than the savings, and you get a small vacation - and get to drive a new RX-8 back home! What could be better? You would want to "close the deal" remotely, by having them mail you the contract and perhaps the documentation so you can get licenced locally before leaving.

    Don't worry about servicing. Dealerships treat the service centres as a separate company. Don't let them convince you that if you didn't buy there, you wouldn't be treated as well! You should be able to get service at any Mazda dealer. Again, shop around until you find one that seems to know what they are doing, and do it to satisfy the customer, not some false sense of "oh well, if we HAVE to".

    So, shop around by phone and internet. Close the deal remotely, if you can. Most of us can afford a two or three day vacation to pick up a car and drive it home. Oh, and while doing the research, use it on your local dealers to see if they will come down to the prices you think you can get.

    Too bad we can't buy new cars in the US and bring them back into Canada! RX-8s are still selling for US $30,000+ here in Canada.
  • trispectrispec Posts: 305
    just have grown so accustom to rushing out and buying local, that we forget that there's a whole wide country to play in. In fact as you were composing your advice above, I was in another forum begging for someone to send me a zip code where all the Internet pricing and negotiations actually could take place online, but in New England.

    After several weeks of planning to buy an RX 8 locally, this idea of travelling somewhere to pick it up sounds fantastic. My wife has been asking for a little weekend vacation and we love the southern states. Jetting into Raleigh NC out of Providence RI (we avoid Logan airport in Boston) is easy as pie.

    I guess there would be a little bit of work on our part to register the card after we get it back to Boston. I agree, the dealers don't care where you bought it come service time.

    OK, folks send me the ZIPs, ZIPs that work with good dealers for CarsDirect, Intellichoice, Cars.com and Edmunds.com and any others where Internet negotiating can be done successfully. Thanks. I'll give feed back as the process progresses. This could be fun.

    Thanks again PathStar.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Be cautious of buying far away from your homebase......You will never know if you have a shady dealer until your there and they try to hijack you at delivery. If you have spent alot of time and money to get there they got you. You are much better off buying in your area or region. Rx-8s are selling but they arent flying off the shelves. If you can't get one in your area something is wrong. If you made a reasonable offer that is profitable, most dealers would take it.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    I almost forgot.......If you are going to register the car in Mass it requires Cal Emissions. Not many states have Calif emissions cars shipped in. If you buy a car that does not have cal Emissions you wont be able to register it in Mass.
  • trispectrispec Posts: 305
    Thanks for the heads up on the CA immisions. Didn't know Mass used it and I've lived here for years.

    I guess my real problems then are can I as an individual do the following things:

    1) Get a dealer to give me a firm price that is firm and legally binding upon them for some specific period of time for a Black RX 8 AT.

    2) Obtain said price via electronic e-mail alone without ever once visiting their dealer location or talking to any representative over the phone.

    3) Have contract documents snail mailed to my Boston address so I can have a lawyer look things over for hidden out of state risks and such.

    4) Travel to the dealer with a cashiers check in hand and drive the car off the dealer's lot.

    I know folks have done this with new and used car purchases for years now. Is Mazda going to be very different with this method of doing business?

    Thanks for your help.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    I see a few problems with your efforts....

    1....your going to be limited to NY, CT, VT, MA and Calif....some of the border states stock Cal em. cars.

    2....I ran a locate on the car you want....there is one in the entire Northeast region from VA to ME.

    3....price that is firm and legally binding upon them for some specific period of time................
    how long? Dealers want you to buy the car and drive away. Anything more than a few days and some dealers will balk.

    4...Obtain said price via electronic e-mail alone without ever once visiting their dealer location or talking to any representative over the phone
    .........Somebody has to do the quote and the delivery process. Which is fine but nothing slows down a sales process like email only communications. Car dealers just don't sit in front of a computer all day waiting and hoping for the email to show up. Especially when you need the answer to a question quickly.

    5 ..Have contract documents snail mailed to my Boston address so I can have a lawyer look things over for hidden out of state risks and such.
    ........I understand your thinking here but it's one more thing to delay the process. Dealers arent fans of mailing contracts. How can they confirm your identity? With all the identity theft going on (dealer are huge targets) to do everything via mail and no contact sends up all the red flags.

    I'm starting to see why the dealers arent jumping up and down to make a sale, This sounds more like a project than a car sale.

    I have a few more questions. Have you made an offer to buy the car from any dealer? If so how much? Did they say no way and walk away or did they countrer offer??
  • trispectrispec Posts: 305
    Yes, I see your points. Thanks.

    1) Cal emissions might be the show stopper outside of the Northeast.

    2) One dealer told me they could get the base model with the Sport Pkg. but then you and two other dealers convinced me it just ain't gonna happen.

    3)...price that is firm and legally binding upon them for some specific period of time...........

    I have no problem putting down a marker to hold a deal open for a bit, I've thrown hundreds at deals only to walk away. Hopefully a dealer would take my money for a few days extra while I shop the deal around. Generally I'm a good tipper, I don't want to treat people badly. I'd really like to do what I've been doing with my Saturn dealer where I've purchase four Saturns over a decade now, keep on buying from the same folks.

    4...Obtain said price via electronic e-mail alone without ever once visiting their dealer location or talking to any representative over the phone .........
    I'm guess just three or four messages tops before a commitment is made on my part.

    5 ..Have contract documents snail mailed to my Boston address so I can have a lawyer look things over for hidden out of state risks and such....

    Yep I guess this part is the weakest link in the process simply because the craziness of the online environment. Kinda hoped the CarsDirect, Edmunds, Cars.com and IntelliChoice would provide a clean safe and simple process, but it looks like all the systems simply blast e-mails all over the place and NOTHING else.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I have both cars, and I can tell you the S is a much better car. It is my "I will get rid of it when they pry the keys from my cold, dead hands" car :)

    Better fuel mileage (by a BUNCH), does not use oil, a LOT better resale value, more reliable, cheaper to insure (for me, may be different for others), and heck - it is a convertible.

    The 8 has a back seat that can be used for 2 more folks in a pinch and fixed roof, but for a sunny day car you can't beat the S.

    With the S I get 22-24mpg around town, 26 racing around the back roads, and 28mpg of a trip (all with the top down). So far with the 8 I have gotten over 20mpg only on a interstate trip, and I am getting 15mpg or so around town. Of course, it is new so that may improve some as time goes on - but most folks report that it does not. This is probably the #1 complaint about the car - a small tank and terrible economy. I sold a 394hp sedan that got about the same mileage as the 8 gives me. That is my choice, but the poor mileage does hurl. If you pick up the latest issue of Car and Driver they have a long term update on their RX-8. Poor mileage and a lot of oil usage were the main gripes. One reviewer remarked "So this is why no one else makes a rotary".

    While I love my 8, if I had to pick one it would be the S - no question about it. But that is me, you have to get the one that talks to you the best.

    As was pointed out, flooding is not an issue if you warm the car up before you stop it. But if you forget (or someone else is moving your car) then there could be a problem. Rotaries use oil, so you have to check and top it up a lot - more so that a piston car, but that is part of the "Deal" if you have a rotary. Nordic green is not a very popular color and I am told is being dropped for the 2006 model year. Dealers got stuck with a LOT of left over 04s for most have not ordered as many 05s so the choices do not SEEM as good at a lot of dealers as they did earlier.

    If you are picking just on mileage, resale, and reliability the choice is easy. But if you like the 8 more and you need the extra space then there is nothing "wrong" with buying one. Just go into it with your eyes open to the issues so you are not surprised down the road.

    Dennis
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    Rumour mill again - however it confirms what I've been hearing for over a year now. The 2006 model automatics -may- get the new Miata six speed automatic. This makes sense, as it will be a transmission Mazda will have in production, it will increase the number used (helping them reduce per unit costs), and it will help the auto RX-8 "keep up" with the manual. They (rumour propogators) say it will have 212 HP as well. If you check out the Mazda North America site, the Miata will get "paddle shifters", which also makes me think this rumour is correct - the new transmission would fit right in with the RX-8 concept wise. They also say it will still be limited to 7500 RPM (again, the limit imposed by the torque converter). So, how they get more HP is anybodies guess for now. It seems the torque is up and that may be the clue - better tuned intake tract.

    No news to report on the manual trans. cars. Keeping my fingers crossed!!!

    The only official thing we've heard from Mazda so far on the 2006 units is the colour chart.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,421
    Is this the same 6-speed auto they introduced in the '05 Mazda6?

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • I guess it depends on your wants vs needs. I like the S also, but it can't fit two sets of golf clubs and an overnight bag for a weekend get-away in the country.

    The S is good for a couple if you are going to end up where you start. Otherwise the RX8 has plenty of room and enough zoom-zoom-zoom to be a lot more versatile and usable. :D

    QUESTION: If the 06's don't change much will the discount prices still apply (not including the old model year depreciation, of course)
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I have both, so my wants and needs are both taken car of ;)

    But if you had to choose one and don't play golf (what a way to waste a perfectly good walk in the woods?) the S is by far the better "Deal". My wife and I have enough room for a weekend in the mountains without too much trouble - but the drop top wins ALL the comparisons for me. Well, that and the better reliability, resale value, fuel economy, etc :)

    I ASSUME that Mazda will increase the incentives as the year goes along - just like they did last year. At first tied to (maybe overpriced) MAC financing then later just "have at it". I do not think there will be as many left overs to pick from this time as last since most of the dealers ordered far fewer cars. Also harder to find a loaded up car or one with Nav, since those are the ones they mostly got stuck with last year - and chose not to re-order for 05. You get a car now for best selection or play "Dutch auction" with it later. The longer you wait the fewer cars to choose from but the less you are likely to pay.

    The 06 AUTO cars should be nicer, so the left over auto 8s should be really hard to move (and are generally not very desirable anyway). Once the 06 changes have been firmed up then we will see how desirable they are and how quick the 05 prices fall. I know if you want titanium gray or nordic green you need to look at an 05 or 04, since those are not supposed to be available colors in 06.

    Dennis
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    for 06? i've heard they dropped the green...but what else and have they added anything.

    Tough luck for all those folks who bought the 04 and 05 autos. As Dennis said, they were not popular anyway and now with the 06 offering so much more hp's, those resale numbers will likely hit rock bottom.
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    I'm told titanium gray is also gone, but now we will get "galaxy gray mica". It looks very close to titanium - perhaps a little darker. Also adding "Phantom Blue Mica" - a light blue/green - perhaps just in the US, not Canada? The colour changes may be a result of the loss of the painting plant (fire), and may only be temporary, until the new plant is finished. Both new colours were used by other Mazda vehicles.

    The horsepower is only up 16 - it would feel like a minor increase to the "seat of the pants" dyno. The important change is the extra two gears, allowing better use of the limited rev. range! The torque curve is also changed - perhaps flattened a bit but broadened out. Unless the numbers being thrown around in the rumors are due to the 6 port being used. I'd doubt this, but "we shall see". In October, at the latest.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I should point out that the extra 16hp is only for the AUTO tranny 8s, no one has told us (yet) if there is any difference in the 6mt HP for 2006.

    So the AUTO cars really take a hit on the resale value since the 06 will have 2 more gears and 16 more ponies.

    Dennis
  • mthmsimmthmsim Posts: 4
    Thanks for the reply. I have test driven the RX-8 and s2000 twice each. I go back & forth as to which I like better. The RX (touring) would be 3-5 grand cheaper, is more functional (4dr, useful rear seats) seems to have a few more bells & whistles (Bose, DSC, lots of airbags), & I think looks hotter. Downside is oil burning, gas mileage, reliability. The s2k seems like simple, top-down, hi-revving fun that's more reliable. My only two new cars were an '88 civic that I kept 7yrs and sold to my brother, and my current '95 Integra that'll be my winter wheels, although the RX with some decent tires sounds like it handles the snow pretty well.I do like both cars a lot.I read that '04s selling earlier this year for thousands under invoive. Now the season for selling these acrs is starting to wind down over the next couple of months. One dealer had 5 RX's on the lot 2weeks ago,still have the 5 + 2 more. ANother dealer near me has about 32 Rx-8's. Most have the GT package. I find it difficult to believe they'll be able to sell most of these without some serious discountig and/or help from Mazda. Good deals should be had if I go in ths direction. On the s2k side, most delaers have 0-4 at any time, some others as many as 7-8. Less inventory, probably less room to deal Feel free to tell me more about your duel rx-8/s2k experience What else is better for you? ANy other reservations about either car? I'm rambling now. Just looking for any info/angles/opinions not already seen. Thanks to all.Will probably buy one of these this month unless I think waiting for poorer late year weather will be to my advantage. :confuse:
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I paid $30k even for my 2005 S including destination and dealer fees - so much for they "will not deal on the S2000" :)

    If you are willing to fly down and drive back there are dealers in KY and GA that will make you a similar deal (assuming they still have cars). I bet you could find a dealer in the MA area that would deal, though. What about Boch Honda in Norwood? Aren't they the (self proclaimed?) "largest Honda dealer" ? Their web page shows 7 S2000s in stock.

    An RX-8 with touring would invoice right at $28k - so if you purchased it at invoice it would be just $2k less. Currently there IS a $1k MAC incentive so if you finance with MAC and purchased at invoice it would be $27k. To be fair (apples to apples) if you compare an 8 with leather seats the difference would be less - the invoice on a GT is just over $29k - or $28k with the rebate. At times the required MAC financing can be at a really high rate, but you can always take the rebate then refinance the car later :)

    So right now, the difference between the two cars is not that much. Of course, I paid about $600 under invoice for my 8 - which would make the difference a little more ;)

    Sure, if you wait Mazda will almost be sure to put larger incentives on the 05 8s to move them out. The peak on the 04s was $3,250 (varied by region) before they just gave the dealers $4k off the top with no MAC financing strings attached.

    Any fixed roof car is likely going to be safer in a crash than a drop top - extra air bags or not. The Bose stereo in the 8 is a LIABILITY rather than a bonus. The S has a standard DIN sized stereo and standard sized speakers. I spent about the same for the accessory MP3 player for the 8 (replaces the single disc CD with a MP3/CD player) as I did for the high end Pioneer stereo CD/MP3 player I put in the S. I then had to spend another $90 or so to add an aux in to the stereo in the 8 for my XM radio - on the Pioneer stereo in the S this was a $20 cable.

    With the 8 you can't easily replace anything - the stereo, the speakers, etc. With the S you can.

    I think the 8 looks "richer" (with a leather interior) than the S both inside and out. I have the optional NAV in the 8 and I love it (but it is expensive) - this is not available in the S.

    Not counting the oil, if you drove 12k in a year paying $2.50 a gallon for premium (required in both cars) it would take 800 gallons in an 8 at 15mpg and cost $2000.00. In an S it would take 522 gallons at 23mpg and cost $1,305. So you would save back nearly $700 of the extra you paid for the S in the first year. That assumes those mileage figures (which is what I currently get commuting to work), $2.50 for premium, and 12k a year (which is a lot more than I drive).

    The 8 only goes back to 2004, but you can check current "book" used values here, KBB, NADA, etc for a 2004 S VS a 2004 8 and get an idea about resale value (hint: if Mazda can't sell them new w/o incentives then you would have to discount a used one to sell it).

    Anyway, I have my cake and eat it too - so I don't have to choose. They are similar in "spirit" - a light, great handling, tossible, high revving car. One has a better track record and drop top (which is the best part) the other is a little "shaky" but has a fixed roof and 4 seats. If you don't have a winter car to drive, then the 8 would make more sense (along with 4 snow tires). Heck, I picked up an old Subaru Legacy AWD for cheap for snow days so I don't drive EITHER car to work when it snows :surprise:

    Sounds like the 8 is the one talking to you. Be sure to test drive USED sample of both so you can redline them on an engine that has been broken in. Neither motor shows its true colors until the tach sweeps past 4-5k. Nothing WRONG with choosing the 8 - just go in with your eyes wide open to the oil and gas consumption issues.

    Dennis
  • Looks like Mazda is becoming an accessory for you iPod :shades:

    http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/aug/04cars.html
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I got the impression they were referring to Japan market cars. But I'd love to see that connectivity in U.S. market cars too.
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