Volvo XC90 SUV

aaaedgarpoe

IIHS tested the 2003 XC90 and of the luxury SUVs it has a rather high femur forces (reference http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/details/luxsuv_f- ront.htm ) of 6.3, and 5.0 for elft and right respectively on the driver.

Any idea if anything has been done since then to reduce these forces in the 2005 XC90 model year?

Note 6.3 kilonewton = 1,416.2963464 pound-force

mnmatches

There is a company out there that will tune your factory chip to run on a higher grade gas (i.e. tune it to run on a min 91 octane) The increased specs for a T6 are 316hp and 300 lb torque. That's v8ish for approx. $650

habitat1

I'd believe that when I saw it in the real world. If tuning a chip could produce 20% increases in power that easiliy - without causing long term engine damage - don't you think Volvo would figure that out themselves?

I was in a BMW dealership (VOB Rockville Md) a couple of months ago and they were having a fight with a guy who wanted to trade in his 2002 M3 on a 645i. They were refusing to take his car on trade in because he had an aftermarket chip installed. So his attempt to tweak a little more power out of an M3 was actually going to cost him at least $3,000 to $5,000 in lost trade in value, since the car cannot be CPO'd except by BMW.

Do they have a transmission tuning that will take the T6 from 4 speeds to 6 speeds to go along with the chip tuning?

bigeddy

There are at least 3 companies that modify the ECU chip programming. They increase the max turbo boost among other things. This could cause damage from overheating if used for too long a time or without adequate cool down which is probably why Volvo doesn't go there, although European dealers evidently do the tuning with Volvo's knowledge. The tuning is said to be difficult to detect unless you are specifically looking for it. One of the tuning methods provides a memory unit so you can reset the ECU to factory whenever you want. Cost is around a grand. Users seem happy so far.

explorerx4

just to clarify, the 'aftermarket chip' is not a physical thing. a reputable 'chip maker' could send him the original programming to reinstall. sounds like the dealer is being ureasonable, especially since bmw is replacing the crankshaft bearings in the current gen m3's.

volvomax

OK, a couple of things,
First, chip tuning is ALWAYS detectable.
Especially on a turbo car.
Second, Volvo(or BMW) has no control over what a chip tuner does with their product. Naturally, motor companies are hesitant to give these companies their blessings. When an engine is designed the horsepower and torque curves are optimized to meet the overall goals of the engineers. Engine longevity, fuel economy and emissions all play a role in the final decision.
Change the engines performance and you affect those other parameters.
Chip tuning isn't illegal, and in most cases it doesn't void the entire warranty. But, it is still something to be researched carefully.

dw102800

Drove around Sweden and Denmark in a fully loaded 2005 xc90. Mileage was about 17 avg highway. Absolutely loved the vehicle. I got the nav system and it worked great. Really enjoyed the whole experience except when I put a nice scratch on the fender...

mnmatches

Chip Mods are allways a buyer beware situation. But it's up to the buyer to make the decision whether or not the risks are worth it. I personally would probably only modify an engine/transmission if the vehicle was more than 10 years old. (think hot-rod)

xchicagoan5

I am the current owner of a 2003 Lexus GX470. It is the most trouble free car I have ever owned. The only down side is that it is "portly". My previous SUV was a BMW X5 4.4. With the birth of child #3, we needed three rows of seats. At the time of my purchase, the XC90 was in low supply and high demand. Now, there are plenty available. Today, I drove a T6 AWD and then a 2.5 FWD. My initial impression was the the 2.5 5 Speed performed better than the 4 speed T6. I could not really tell a difference in acceleration. I travel a lot so my wife will drive the car 75% of the time. Can owners of both the T6 and 2.5 share their experiences and why you made your choice? For 2005, you can get a 2.5 with 18" Atlantis wheels.

Thanks

guyf

I choose the 2.5T for the same reasons. I could not make much difference on acceleration and I preferred the 5 speed transmission smoothness.

Lots of mountain roads and some off-road last week-end. The XC90 performed perfectly in both. It performs in off road conditions much better than I thought.

mississippi

We are contemplating purchasing a 2005 T6 with the navigation system option. Any experiences, comments or other thoughts (about the performance, usability, pricing, value, service record, etc.) regarding the Volvo's navigation system? Thank you.

schuhc

Xchicagoan5:

We picked the T6. I like a lot of what I've read about the 2.5 but really chose the T6 because of the engine. I have a C70 HT Coupe and knew that the engines in this and the 2.5 were similar. As such, and perhaps being overly careful, I wanted to make sure that the engine was going to be enough for the weight of the car. Throw in the items we got that would have been optional for the 2.5 and those were the factors in our decision.
Only complaints mirror guyf....Wish I had better gas mileage and like the idea of a 5 speed tranny v. my 4.

bigeddy

Lots of posts in this forum on the VNS (Volvo Navigation System). It's expensive. It works well in big cities but generally has only major roads in other areas. Make sure your area is covered in detail (see Navteq website, they supply the data and handle distribution for Volvo). The hardware design is outstanding except that the DVD drive under the driver's seat is exposed with the seat all the way back. The steering wheel buttons take getting use to (there is also a remote) but work well and keep your hands on the wheel. The screen is great. The software is based on Windows and is just Ok. DVD updates come out about once a year and are $200 although you may not need them. There are alternatives that have advantages and disadvantages but the VNS is nice if you think you'll use it--convenient, fast, relatively easy to use, and safe.

adp3

guyf: I've only had our 90 since Labor Day (September), and haven't had it even on a DIRT road, yet, never mind off-road. I'm afraid to even get it dirty. (it's much nicer than any car I've owned) It's hard for me to imagine that it can handle the rigors of off-road driving, so I am glad to hear your report.

Chicago: We bought the 2.5. In EXTREME onroad driving (the Skip Barber course), I preferred the 6. It was much more fun to drive when squealing around the asphalt, taking very tight turns, etc. But part of the reason I thought the "feel" of the 6 was better may have been due to the fact that none of the 5's were equipped with speed sensitive steering (as the 6 was). I bought my 5 from the factory and bought the steering upgrade. The 5 has plenty of acceleration/pep for my wife. I find it is fine around town and getting on the freeway, but it doesn't have the pep I like to get from 75 to 85 quickly. I may just not be used to driving a turbo, however. Still, I have no problem getting on it and getting on the freeway, nor any problem accelerating up to good highway speed. Just a little sluggish at the top end.

We love the car, FWIW.

guyf

Acceleration does improve a bit with mileage. I was somewhat skeptical when I first read that comment on this board but mine is now close to 10,000 miles and it sure accelerate better than when new.

It does not turn into a T6 however.

And we love it too...

islander71

We have experienced the same noticed improvement in acceleration. We will have our 2.5 XC90 a year next month and have just over 10K miles. We love ours as well.

doc_mom

We are looking at the XC90 after recently having our third child. 1. I wonder if parents are happy with the 2nd row integrated booster seat for 4-8 year olds. Do the 6-8 year olds feel it is too small?
2. Anyone using the integrated booster seat with an infant car seat? It seems to be too tight a fit with a forward facing infant seat if you move the booster seat forward ( the use it is intended for).
3. Any 6 year olds who are getting into and out of the back seat on their own? (Especially in the midwest where they have snow boots, winter coats, and backpacks to handle)
4. Does anyone have the aluminum running boards? My three year old had a hard time getting into and out of the car on his own. Do they help?
Thanks for all responses. We are deciding between the XC90 and MDX soon and seating/car seats are a major determinant.

dw102800

We spent a week driving around europe and overall really liked the nav system. We did have a few problems at times in some cities but were generally pretty impressed. I was glad I bought the nav system.

guyf

I don't have all the answers but one nice feature of the XC90 is that the 2nd row can slide forward to give more room to the third seat occupants once seated. The MDX does not have this feature.

islander71

1. We are very pleased with the integrated booster seat.
2. In our experience none of our car seats fit adequately on the booster seat.
3. N/A
4. We do not have running boards.
We looked at the MDX and other vehicles, but we felt the XC90 met all of our demands the best. Like youself, car seats / room was a factor for us.

adp3

we like the middle booster seat - my ten-year old (average size; female) realy likes it (but she chooses to sit at the window when she has the chance, because having a window is the best)

we have running boards, and my kids use them to get in and out. It makes it easier for them. I am over 6 feet tall, and I hit my leg on them as I get out of the drivers seat. C'est la vie. It's a good trade off for us.

hawaii1

I am in a similiar situation with having 3 kids and wondering if the XC90 is big enough and only 1 is still in a booster seat. I really like this vehicle and having been looking at every vehicle imaginable. I came from a mini-van, which was not great with seating for my back. I have disc problems and need something as comfy as I can get it as I am running kids around all the time. We are looking at the 2005 new Odyessy but I think the XC90 is more comfy and supportive for the back. I heard that Volvos are well known for comfy seats. Does anyone have comments on this with the seats and enough room? THanks ahead of time.

bensmom243

I traded in a 98 V70 Wagon for my minivan, and I have regretted it almost every day. The Volvo seats were fantastic. My tushie aches after even a short period of time in my minivan, but a three hour trip was easy in the Volvo. Can't wait to get my butt in a Volvo again, good luck with your decision!

adp3

I moved from a Grand Caravan to the 90

the seats in the 90 are worthy of the price tag; the seats in the GC were worthy of that much lower price tag

not sure how the Ody seats are

the 90 will likely not be as "easy" as the MV is, vis a vis getting to the third seat. Still, kids are pretty flexible, and it's THEM getting to that third seat, not you. Take them to the dealer, pop open that third seat and see how it goes. My kids like the third seat, and we have used it a few times (we've only had the 90 for about a month)

manvo

Our 2004 XC90 2.5T has ~15000 miles on it, and is about one year old (2nd service next week). It has been a wonderful experience driving it. Plenty of power for me when accelerating, passing and cruising while driving in OH, PA, NJ, NY area (RPM is almost always below 3000. And no, no. I am not going too slow. You cannot do that in NJ/NY even if you want to :-). Tech did a few minor things to it at the 1st service. No biggie.

Now the seats. The 2nd row sliding seats and the integrated booster seat (slides too) are IMHO very very nice features. All seats are very comfy. 3rd row leg room is tight for adults (MDX I sit in is no better), but slightly sliding the 2nd row and that makes it much better. Overall it does not have as much room as a minivan but for me it's OK, especially even the front passenger seat goes pretty flat. I am yet to install the running boards. Got delayed because my four year old boy has no trouble getting in or out - though I have to open the door for him to get in (opening the door to get out is ok). Getting to the 3rd row is easy, and doing that from both sides is a lot more convenient than you think it would be, compared to from one side only.

BTW. If you can get to it, do the "Volvo owners driving experience" thing - it's a very good experience.

nvbanker

Are about the finest and most comfy I've ever found. If that's a priority, the Volvo is your car!

ckobrine

I've decided to buy a 2004 XC90, AWD with third row seating. The first reviews I read recommended the 5 cylinder for a smooth ride and good gas mileage, however the latest reviews have recommended the 6 cylinder for power. Most days there will only be one adult and two small children in the car, and occasionally two adults and maybe four small children. Does anyone have an opinion based on personal experience or a reliable source on which is better?

lev_berkovich

I have opted for the 5 cyl. This engine provides plenty of power in most driving conditions and it does have better gas mileage. We are very happy with our choice.

habitat1

In driving both the 2.5 and T6 back to back, I really couldn't tell that much difference in acceleration and we had 3 adults and my two kids along for the test drive. The terrain was flat, however. We have had one of our friends tell us that his 2.5 fully loaded with 5 passengers and luggage (including roof top carrier) gets slightly bogged down going up and down the Alleghenies to their lake house in the summer.

I recommend you load up a 2.5 for a test drive yourself. If that's not good enough, however, I recommend strongly against the T6/4-speed in favor of waiting for the V8/6-speed due out in February. It will not only have considerably more "noticable" power, but should offer better gas mileage than the T6 as well. That's what we are planning to do.

zeen

We hit 5500 miles on our 2004 XC90 5 cyl. that we got at the beginning of May. Still not one defect or problem. In the 32 years that I have been buying new cars, this is the first one that doesn't even have one squeak or loose part after this period of time. Acceleration is very acceptable with the 5.

guyf

Same here, 10,000 miles on mine.

carolinagirl

I know in an earlier post it was stated that the headrest dvd would be available for order in late Sept. I didn't see anything about it on the volvo website. Is is still going to be available?

volvomax

They are currently available for order.
$1995 is the charge.

volvomax

Volvo has made it official:
Base $45,395
Dest. $685

Std equip includes the 3rd Row seats, as well as aluminum trim.

Options carry over from the T6, with one exception.
There is a convienence pkg for the V8
-Park Assist
-Pwr retracting mirrors
-Cargo cover
-Cargo Net

Pkg price $1,300

Colors are:
Silver
Black Sapphire
White
Ruby Red
Magic Blue
Titanium Gray
Lava Sand *NEW*

Crystal Green and Ash Gold, and reg Black are not available

habitat1

Any word on when the vehicle will be avialble for purchase in the US or throguh OSD? Thanks.

wmquan

Thanks for the pricing!

Looks like you can build & price one on the Volvo web site now.

I configured:

Base: $45,395
Metallic paint: $450
Climate Package: $625
Bi-xenons: $700
Touring Package: $1,795
Destination: $685
Total: $49,650

So it's pretty much the $50k list price, fairly well-equipped, that we expected. The convenience package is another $1,300, air quality system another $175, navigation $2,120, and dual video system for another $1,995. Most will push the list above $50k.

From your perspective, do you think most V8's allocated will have both the Touring and Convenience Packages on them?

Thanks again.

anilpunjabi

If you look at the comparo it has, it ask u to check off box hits 0-60 in 6.9 or under, whihc menas it can hit 60 in 6.9 which is very impressive. We have a 2003 t6, might conisder a trade in if we get good money for ours.

volvomax

OSD probably not before spring.

Expect the first dealer cars to hit end of Jan-early Feb.

volvomax

I'd expect the first cars to be loaded, so yes on the Touring and convienence.
Proabbly see quite a few w/ Nav and the DVD system as well.

teamk

Here's our current thinking on the cars we're evaluating -- any other thoughts welcome:

XC90
Waiting for the V8 to come in...we want to order one for Overseas Delivery, but afraid to order a car we've never driven....what if they didn't get this new Yamaha V8 / 6 speed transmission right? What if the shifting is wacky or something bizarre? (Anyone get a chance to drive it this weekend in Long Beach?)
Does anyone know if there are any interior changes with the V8? (Any difference in the frame / passenger footwells / etc to fit the engine and 6 speed tranny in?
The back of the second row isn't flat (knee-cutouts for third row make it a contoured floor) and it doesn't get totally level when folded down.
Not too concerned about the seat deployment issues others raise, really just the new engine issue...

LR3
Have driven it twice and played with the interior a ton. We love everything about the interior except the passenger footwell (it is not flat near the center console and people with short legs can't find room in front of the seat to put their feet on a wide, flat surface).

It's a bit heavy as others have noticed, but it's an SUV and is completely acceptable (I wouldn't call it sluggish). Much better than the t6 XC90...

The flexibility of seating/etc is amazing...you can have flat cargo floor and still recline the passenger seat to sleep.

GX470
Under-horsed engine doesn't feel weak with the high torque -- felt like it hauled [non-permissible content removed] pretty well. Don't love the 3rd row seat configurations, but figure we could pull one out and be pretty happy.
Very skeptical on the swing-door. We live in the city (SF) on a hill, and parallel parking or parking on hills we think the swing door would be a real pain. We tried this at length today and have ruled it out because of the swing-door.

Anyone have similar thoughts / experience / ideas?

trini

My kids like the 3rd row in the XC90, it is like their own little world. I have a 5yr old and a 3 yr old. Volvo Seats ( the booster/child seats ) are rated for kids over 33lbs, same as the integrated child seat. If your kids are over 33lbs then they will be just fine in the integrated child seat, if the child opts for a window seat or the 3rd row, then I would recommend getting the booster seats from the dealer ( approx $100 ).

My XC90 is the T6 with 18" rims, and my kids ( both girls )are usually ok with getting in on their own, even when they sit in the 3rd row, they like the 3rd row, cus is like their own little world. How tall is your 3yr old? MY 3yr old is 40" and she climbs in just fine in to the XC90.

I would not even look at another SUV because of rollover issues. So as for MDX or XC90 there is no choice there :P

I got my XC90 in March 2003, we have no regrets, no problems, I keep reading about problems with some cars. I would suspect some of the problems are due to the dealers unable to repair or lack the knowledge.

habitat1

Appreciated your comments regarding the XC90.

However, didn't quite get your comment regarding rollover? The 2004 Pilot is rated ahead of the 2004 XC90 in terms of rollover liklihood (15% vs. 17%) by the NHTSA. The MDX wasn't rated for 2004. That's without vehicle stability control which is on the MDX (and 2005 Pilot).

Personally, I like the way the Volvo handles and the new V8 is on the top of our shopping list. However, the rollover issue seem to favor the MDX/Pilot in terms of likelihood. I'm guessing the XC90 might fare better in an actual rollover, but I'd prefer not finding out.

wmquan

If you look closely at the NHTSA rollover tests, you'll find that they're still not very indicative of true vehicle rollover propensity. There is a pass/fail component on whether the vehicle tips -- neither the Pilot or XC90 in that test tips. After that, it's a simple mathematical calculation of the height of the center of gravity vs. the track width. The Pilot, being so wide, wins in that regard. That's the only reason the Pilot scores slightly higher than the XC90.

What the mathematical calculation does not factor in are vehicle dynamics. So long as the vehicle passes a simple, one-scenario tip/no-tip test, the vehicle's suspension, stability control system, etc. are not considered. That's why in past years, the MDX and Pilot were both virtually equal in the ratings, even though one has VSA.

The XC90 has a better stability control system that works in more scenarios. Honda stability control systems have lagged behind the European ones in their effectiveness (look how the addition of VSA to the MDX didn't correct its fishtailing tendencies according to Consumer Reports; then Acura reveals in the 2005 MDX that they've added a critical missing component to their VSA).

Then Volvo adds their highly-touted RSC, which is basically stability control augmented with a roll sensor (most systems just have a yaw sensor). The Hondas don't have that yet, they're still catching up. The Hondas (and Toyotas, for that matter) all have stability control systems that cut out when ABS is engaged, limiting their effectiveness in a range of scenarios (e.g. in a curve, you find yourself slipping, tap the brakes -- the Hondas and Toyotas won't be able to correct a fishtail, whereas most European systems -- including, I believe, the Volvo's -- will apply selective braking to correct any fishtailing).

Then, when a rollover actually occurs, the XC90 has a superior cage to prevent roof crushing. I think the only SUV close to it is the Mercedes. There are no standardized test for this, but you can look at various anecdotal photos of MDX rollovers and you see plenty of roof crushing. If Honda had a strong roof, they'd brag about it with rollover footage like Volvo and MB does.

Besides roof crushing, look at more subtle but key features like the XC90's pretensioners in all seating positions. An NHTSA study revealed that a significant amount of SUV deaths actually occur when a belted occupant slides out of the belt during a rollover. The XC90's use of pretensioners everywhere and its anti-submarining seat design help prevent that.

So, not only do I think that the XC90 has a lower propensity to roll over than the Pilot, it is also better when a rollover actually occurs.

volvomax

XC90 V8's are available on a very limited basis for Overseas Delivery, but only from March-May 2005.

AFAIK there are no opportunities for consumers to drive the V8 at this time.
There is a V8 @ the Anaheim auto show.

We don't get to drive the car until Dec.
There are no changes to the structure of the XC90 for the V8.
Since the V8 is shorter than the I6, or even the I5 it fits nicely into the engine bay, even w/ the 6 speed.
I saw a dvd on the V8, the sound of the engine is wonderful, also from what I could see, handling and power should be much more than adequate.

lev_berkovich

I would like to add my personal experience from the Drive for Life event related to the rollover issue. You HAVE to drive XC90 to the extreme to appreciate the sophistication and effectiveness of its rollover protection system. Most people do not realized that this system interactively controls the vehicle dynamics during the tipping process and prevents inner wheels from locking (up to the degree allowable by the law of physics), therefore allowing a car to skid on inner wheels rather than tip over them at the critical moment, at the same time it applies braking (up to the full emergency power) to the appropriate outer wheels, trying to pivot a car in the direction opposite of tilt. And this all done without any intervention from the driver. This car is smarter and better driver than a vast majority of the drivers on the road. (I do not mention race drivers and real car enthusiasts).
In a nut shell - its very unique system that has no competition on the market yet.

habitat1

I appreciate your response. Do you have any sources or references that compare the various manufacturers / models stability control systems?

I suspect that some systems are better than others and Mercedes and BMW have been at it longer than all of the others. But I've never actually seen a comparison between them by an objective source, such as Consumer Reports or even the car magazines.

I can test drive cars myself to compare handling and acceleration. I've even put some ABS brakes to the test. But I don't want to try testing stability control systems only to find out I went too far.

lev_berkovich

Edward,
Luckily, I have, so as thousands of participants of the Drive for Life event. I wish they are reading our board and will share their experiences too.

Now, Volvo does claim that the roll prevention system is a first in a world, and so far nobody has contested that.

I read a lot of info on all the modern automotive technology, but has never seen anybody claiming having that additional gyroscopic roll sensor along with the yaw sensor, but in XC90.

I would be interested to see if other manufacturers has followed the trend.

xchicagoan5

I almost leased a 2005 2.5T XC90. I too have driven the new LR3 and impressed with its size, engine smoothness and design. However, 14/18 gas mileage is big detractor right now, especially with the weight of the vehicle and few SUVs ever reaching the published MPG estimates. I love my Lexus and the V8 power. After owning an X5 4.4i and GX470 (current SUV), I think I am going to wait for the V8 to arrive. I came to the conclusion that this lease should combine the handling and power of the X5 with the roominess of the GX470.

I believe the XC90 V8 will provide the best combination of speed, size and safety. My X5 was too small. I have three kids and need three rows of seats. The Lexus is great in size, but not as functional because the 3rd row seats don't fold into the floor. It has good handling, but not as nimble as the XC90. The GX470 also has so-so gas mileage. For a V8, I think it does well, but I expect the Volvo to be the best in class in terms of MPG.

The only thing that would change my mind is the new 2005 GX470 with the sport package that is due out in December. It will feature 18" wheels and a VVT engine as well. This could provide the enhanced performance and MPG I am looking for.

Otherwise, it will be the XC90 V8 for me. Any thoughts?

lev_berkovich

Edward,
Here is a reference to the Consumer Report that states XC90 is the only vehicle that has additional rollover prevention system

http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv4.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt- _id=304957&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=301665&ASSORTMENT%3C%3Ea- st_id=333137

lev_berkovich

Another source
http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders/0305/27/b01-144692.htm