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Lincoln Aviator

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Comments

  • The Navigator offers just 2 interior colors as well, Black Ink & Light Parchment. Where I live, a black interior is death, so most of the ones we see here will be in the other. I've noticed lately, that Ford has been limiting the number of interior color options, which is not a big deal to me anyway, as long as there is a light option. Too hot here for dark ones.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    I could understand limiting choices but we were shown the second interior at the end of the 3 hour test drive to see which one we liked best. To be perfectly honest I couldn't see any difference and had to ask what was different. The wood trim is different also. You would think they would offer at least a charcoal color but apparently not.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    I am happy with the Aviator pricing...the only bad part is ALG has tied the lease residual to the Mountaneer. Which means the vehicle won't lease well at all....this part is bad. very bad.
  • To: Audia8q
    I have ordered an Aviator, Premium AWD. Please expand on your comments concerning lease residual as I haven't even discussed price or financing with dealership yet. Any insight, help would be appreciated.

    Currently have 2000LS on which I've extended lease until arrival of Aviator.

    Thanks,

    JACK
  • zman3zman3 Posts: 857
    I assume the residuals are going to be crap, but I am also interested in hearing the numbers if they are available.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    We don't have hard lease numbers yet...But Lincoln has prepped us to push retail....the lease numbers will be terrible initially.
  • I think the residuals on an AWD Mountaineer for a 36 month lease is somewhere around 42%. If the Aviator is similar then the net cost to the lease the vehicle will be closer to that of the competition than one might initially think.
  • haironghairong Posts: 153
    42% residual on a 36 month lease is terrible. In Mountaineer's case, it ate away whatever incentive (and some) Ford is offering on the truck, and made lease very unattractive for it. If the Aviator's residual is the same, since you won't see incentives at the first several months, monthly payment will be much higher than competition. E.g. MDX's residual after 36 month lease is around 60%, roughly you can save ($40000*18%/36=) $200 a month just on depreciation alone. Counting interest and tax, you are looking at a difference close to $250 a month!

    My suggestion, BUY, Don't lease.
  • zman3zman3 Posts: 857
    I get your point but...

    I've never seen residuals set artificially low by a manufacturer, so if you buy, you are buying something that is going to drop like a rock in value. May not make a good buy, either.
  • haironghairong Posts: 153
    Aviator's price came out at the high end of my guestimate, which priced the model I wanted (awd luxury) right out of my reach ($3000 more than I can afford).

    Looks like Lincoln thinks the Aviator's direct competition is MB ML320&ML500, not Acura MDX. If it were up to me, I would have priced Awd-Luxury Aviator right at MDX Touring level. I think Ford worried too much about Exp Limited and Mountaineer's sale, but not enough about the compition.
  • marks52marks52 Posts: 3
    Until the Aviator proves itself, it needs to lease for significantly less than the ML500, X5 4.4i and GX470. Otherwise, it won't draw new buyers to Lincoln, including me. I've been very interested to get an Aviator ASAP, but, not if it's not a value against these competitors.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    The Focus group test drive I participated in compared the Aviator with the Acura MDX AWD and the BMW X5 4.4i.

    It has more power, more room and more off-road capability (like that makes a difference) plus more gadgets than the MDX. The MDX does have a smoother ride.

    The BMW is much smaller with no 3rd row seats. It's not any quicker, either. It does handle better.

    I think it's priced right and if I was looking for a SUV in that price range I would go for the Aviator.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    Go drive one - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I don't think the ML500 or X5 4.4i has anything over the Aviator other than the 'snob' factor.
  • marks52marks52 Posts: 3
    I'd like to see and drive one.
    Does anyone know if/when dealers will get a first early unit to show/test drive? Or, should I expect to have to wait until October? I live in Ohio and my local dealer says he hasn't seen one yet.
  • haironghairong Posts: 153
    Akirby, I agree with your assessment, but I've come to a different conclusion. In this segment, anyway you price your vehicle, you are gonna make a big profit. The important thing is to find where your compititions are and position your entry competitively and sell as much as you can. You can have a bigger market share and make up the less unit profit by selling more units. I had thought this was Ford's phylosophy all along.

    In this segment, midsize luxury SUV/crossover, the market leader is Acura MDX, not anything else. When compared to the MDX, the Aviator
    has more power, more room and more off-road capability (like that makes a difference) plus more gadgets than the MDX. The MDX does have a smoother ride. I totally agree (and more towing capacity I might add). But these advantages do come at a price: Aviator is heavier, less nimble, has worse MPG. But overall I do think Aviator is better than MDX, just not by much. An Aviator AWD Luxury does NOT have more gadgets than a MDX Touring, both are without DVD Navi/AdvanceTrac/HID light etc., yet it is listed 4~5k more, $43k vs. $38k('02)~$39k('03, my guess).

    When you figure in people's perception on Lincoln vehicles re. quality/reliability/resale value, it is hard to justify Aviator's premium price. I agree with marks52, Aviator has to earn its right to bear a primium tag, like the Navigator did. Otherwise, we all know what will happen: an inflated MSRP at intro, followed by a hafty rebate within 6 months, which leads to worse perception (why huge discount on an all new vehicle?) and dissmal resale value.

    What I had hoped for was, price the AWD Luxury Aviator at the level of '03 MDX Touring w/o Navi., and let everything else fall into place. Oh well, maybe Ford thinks rebates/incentives are inevitable, and they are pricing the Aviator with this in mind. To this, I say, hold your purchase until the rebates come in. Is this what Ford would like to see? I doubt it.
  • I just wanted to ask how Hairong knows that the ride is Better on the MDX and just to tell you, they witll have DVD Navi/AdvanceTrac/HID light etc. some time this year. I have 2 RX300's and this car looks as a good alternitave to the comp. Has anyone seen this car in the dealer's. If so does it have the power fold seats and the side steps that retract.
  • haironghairong Posts: 153
    Why do i know MDX has a better ride? I took akirby's words for it. and generally speaking, car based suvs do have a better ride than truck based ones.

    And you don't have to tell me Aviator will have those nice gadgets, I already know that and they are called options. DVD navi./AdvanceTrac will add another good 2~3k to the list price, and HIDs are part of the $3000 package for the Primium model. More gadgets cost more money, facts of life.

    BTW, it does not have power folding seats and power-retractable running boards like the Navigator.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    Nope, no power third row seat or running boards. But it does have heated and cooled seats.

    I drove the Aviator and MDX back to back and the difference is quite noticeable. The Aviator is probably the best riding truck chassis I've been in, but it's still a truck. The MDX is minivan based and rides smoother and more carlike.

    With the Aviator you get more power, more towing capacity, more interior room (I could barely get in and out of the MDX back seat and the BMW didn't even have a 3rd row).

    I would definitely pay $3-4K more for the Aviator but it really comes down to personal choice and what's important to you. I think it will sell well. Look at the Navigator. No reason to think Aviator will be any different.
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Posts: 420
    The new Volvo XC90 is yet another new enterant into the upscale SUV class with AWD. It also has 3 rows of seating to accommodate 7, has some decidedly luxurious ammenities and a DVD based NAV system. Pricing was also just announced to start at $35K, but can quickly mount to over $45K with all options. The base motor is 2.5 liters, 5-cylinder producing 208-hp, and an upgraded 2.9 liter V6 with twin turbos that makes 268-hp. Seems to be situated in price and power between the Explorer/Mountaineer and the Aviator.

    I'm looking forward to looking at the Aviator, but the XC90 is probably also worth looking at.
  • I'm pretty sure this wasn't metioned so here it goes. Lincoln put up a dedicated Aviator site. Finally we all get to see what that second interior color is.
  • I was soo excited to see this awesome new little SUV. I am personally a 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited owner and VERY faithful to the brand...but Ford Vehicles,especially the Explorer/Mountaineer and the Exped/Navigator are my second favorite and I follow them closely. The introduction of the Aviator means that my private predictions are not too crazy...Mercury has been dying...and its time for it to go. The only thing that somewhat peaked my interest in Mercury was the dramatically styled Mountaineer. The Marauder while powerful,and reminiscent of the run-away hit 90's Impala SS,will be the last blast for Mercury,similar to the 98 Grand 5.9 Limited when that body style bowed out. With manufacturers consolidating further and further (ala' Oldsmobile...Plymouth) and the introduction of this neat new luxo toy...putrid Mercury's fate is sealed...the path to its exit will now be far easier because Lincoln will have a decent balance of vehicles to sell on its own...and loyal Mercury Mountaineer owners will have somewhere to turn for their next luxo mid size ute. In fact...just a few days ago I was pondering how best to kill the old brand...Ford you stole the idea right out of my head! Congrats and I hope to see this new truck in person soon...
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    Interesting - the picture on the Lincoln website shows a black upper dash trim color. In the prototype I drove and the other one I looked at that part of the dash was the same color as the rest (ash or parchment). I think I even listed that as a dislike - it just didn't look good. Glad to see they changed it. It doesn't show it but I think with the Ash interior you get grey wood trim (zebrano??) and with the parchment you get real walnut burl. Overall I think I like the parchment better.

    Don't forget the adjustable pedal feature - great for shorter drivers.
  • I priced a 2003 Explorer Limited last week-2WD w/
    V-8 and all the goodies. Quoted 38% residual for 3 year Ford red carpet lease. A real disappointment as my 1999 Explorer was 54% for 3 year.

    I am still hopeful that Lincoln will want to fast-start Aviator deliveries and may subsidize early leases to get them out on the road. Especially when they will probably go for full pop initially.

    Ford did this in 1997 when I leased a '97 Expedtion at introduction for 2 year Red Carpet Lease with a residual of 77% Boy, the good old days. Lease payments on 99 Explorer were $75 a month higher for 3 year lease than 2 year on Expedition (both XLT's with similar equipment).
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,669
    with the Aviator, one special reason is that it comes with a floor shifter instead of a column shifter...call me an idiot, but I just do not like auto trans with a column shifter...frankly, if Explorer/Mountaineer offered the option of floor shifter (the same way Taurus/Sable offers both options, so it is not unknown to Ford to do it) I would seriously consider them instead...yes, the 302 HP in the Aviator is nice, but the ordinary V8 in the others would do just fine...just want the damn shifter where I want it instead of where they want it...
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    I believe the reason for the column mount shifter is that the Expedition and Navigator (up until 2003) share their interiors with the F150, and the F150 needs it on the column to accomodate a bench seat. Same with the old Explorer/Mountaineer and the Ranger. It was probably cheaper to leave it there for the new Explorer/Mountaineer. I agree - I much prefer it to the column shift.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Am I the only one who thinks the Aviator's interior is impressive?? I think it represents a luxury\upscale interior better than the competition.

    The new interior on the 03 Navigator is certainly a big factor driving the sales here in our little part of the world....We get alot of the wow factor when we open the door. I think the Aviator will get the same positive response.
  • I do believe the interior is very upscale and sets it apart from its stablemates. In fact the Navigators new INTERIOR styling is one of the factors that has it neck and neck with the Escalade again in my book. The old navigator looked so much like an expedition on the inside there was nothing special about it. The only demerit I would give to the Aviator is that black area surrounding the dashboard. I think that a fully matching color would look best. I Believe akirby23 mentioned that the one he drove DID have a matching color as opposed to the one in the Ford press picture,which has the black.
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