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1962 Cadillac - any driving experiences out there?

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Comments

  • parmparm Posts: 723
    You guys are picking up the same flaws with the body panels (ie., bondo, waves) that others (on Cadillac message boards) have found as well.

    Sounds like I should stay away from this car - at least for anything more than $9K.

    The '66 Electra I'm looking at (waiting for the seller to return from vacation) is infinitely better.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Here's a '64 Cadillac convertible that the seller has made numerous Ebay attempts to sell.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- - =2406020813

    It's been a few months since his last attempt. I think the previous high bids were in the $7,500 to $8,000 range.

    This car is no prized pig, but it might be a good candidate for the "drive the hell out of it" type of purchase - but only if it could be purchased sensibly.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,628
    It kinda looks like a roach from the photos. That dark blue with a RED interior doesn't cut it too.

    Lets see now...they are killing this board on the 31st. We don't have much time left to help you!
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Actually, I'm in limbo on a very nice '66 Electra convertible. Due to weather and scheduling snafu's, the appraiser has not yet had a chance to do his inspection.

    Had a minor hiccup with the appraiser a few weeks age. I somewhat had to twist his arm to take on this appraisal assignment because he was afraid of alienating his crowd of regular customers. In other words, I think he is in agreement with my value estimate (I supplied him with ton's-o-market support) which is about $2K less than the sellers. But, for only $2K difference, he was afraid to "pull the trigger" at my value fearing honking off the seller thereby having a rippling effect in the local Buick club community up there.

    As a real estate appraiser, I was rather floored by his perspective. Appraiser's are supposed to call them as they see them regardless of who is offend. Believe me, I've offended plenty in my career. But, in the long run, my clients appreciate this.

    I finally had to tell him that the seller will not be obligated to sell the car at the appraised value. Once he heard that, he took a different view and agreed to do take on the appraisal. Of course, I'll not be very willing to budge off my figure - assuming that's where the appraiser comes in. On the other hand, I'm somewhat leery as to how ethical this guy is based on this scenario. But, given the lack of qualified car appraisers in the area where the car is located, I don't have too much choice.

    We'll see.
  • ghuletghulet Posts: 2,628
    I'd love to see some of the Electra, if you can, Parm.

    I rather like that DeVille, though I'm a bit perplexed that it has a tilt wheel and power vents but no a/c.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,537
    When I appraise a car for someone who is not the owner I never ask them their opinion of value.

    However, when the owner calls me, I do diplomatically bring up the subject because if they have some pie in the sky idea of value I want to know that so I can anticipate the trouble up ahead and plan for it.
    (like getting paid up front for instance). It's not unheard of for an owner to withhold payment if they don't like the appraisal.

    Which begs the question---why hire an expert in the first place?

    Appraisers don't set the market, nor do owners. Buyers set the market, nobody else.

    MODERATOR

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,628
    In the "regular" car business.

    The "books" and "the internet" say the Plymouth Voyager is worth 7500.00 as a trade in.

    Trouble is, nobody wants it. It's got 90,000 miles on it and the lots are already packed with them.

    We sure as heck don't want it...we make a few calls and get a bid for 4500.00 from someone wh really doesn't want it but owes us a few favors.

    Guess what? THAT is what it's worth!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,537
    Well, yes and no. That's what it's worth "wholesale" but that's not Fair Market Value.

    I suspect FMV is somewhere in the middle of those two numbers.

    For "collectible" cars, the same basic laws of supply and demand apply, but unlike new-ish modern cars, each "collectible" has to be judged much more closely on the condition, since re-conditioning costs for old cars is often higher than modern used cars.

    MODERATOR

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,628
    "FMV" is whatever we can get for it. The trouble is, the people who tell us what the "FMV" or "TMV" is don't write checks.

    Sometimes these numbers are pretty accurate, other times they can be way off.

    On old cars, I've always felt that a person is far better off buying one that's already been "restored" than a project car.

    It just costs SO MUCH these days to do anything.

    Last year I was given a quote of 3500.00 just to repaint a car that needed no bodywork!

    This was just a "normal" body shop that I know does good work. Nothing fancy.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Well, for this Electra, my number is $12K and the seller is at $14K which at one time he said was his absolute rock bottom price.

    I agree with your statement that buyers set the market. But, I'm finding that you first have to "convince" the seller as to what their car is really worth - particularly if they think Old Cars Price Guide is the absolute Holy Grail for determining values and scoffs at the notion that it's not.

    I know what it's worth and you know it's worth, but the seller does not. So, I essentially have to prove to the seller that I'm not trying to rip him off which is why I hired an appraiser.
     
    Now, some sellers will say, "how bad do you want it?" implying I should bend over (sorry for being too graphic) for the privilege of buying their car. I don't go along with this philosophy. I'll pay the market value, but don't feel I should have to pay any more.

    The seller side could say "just walk away" because he won't find anybody else to pay his "above-market" price either. And, normally I'd agree whole-heartedly. But, this is really a nice car. And, as we've seen and have discussed ad nausium, there's always one buyer with more money than sense who's willing to pay anything for a particular car. So, it's kind of a race against the clock. I need to convince the seller I'm right before he finds that one needle in a haystack of a buyer. And, for now, time is on my side as the seller is not yet actively marketing his car.

    I also recognize those who would say that if the seller is not willing to come down then "the car is not really for sale". Well, the seller started off at $16K (which he quickly dropped to $15K). Still, at $14K he feels he's already dropped $2K.

    By hiring an appraiser, I can show the seller an appraisal report specific to his car which is additional evidence that he can't so easily dismiss - like he has CPI (which the seller says he's never heard of) and other more realistic value guides.

    While the seller is under no obligation to sell the car to me for the appraised value, I can at least say in good conscious that my offer price is fair and have an appraisal that supports my opinion. At which point, when I turn and walk away, the seller will know I'm not trying to low-ball him.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,537
    I don't think that the buyer convinces the seller that his price is too high, but rather the lack of buyers at his price convinces him. This may take a little time. If he does sell it at 14K, that MAY mean (not necessarily) that YOU were wrong, doesn't it?

    The thing to remember is that the FMV is the bulge in the bell curve, where most transactions will land. There will always be a few people who pay too much or get the car for less than it is actually worth. You have to disregard these sales, even though they SEEM to contradict the FMV. If large number of contradictions appears, well then, obviously the FMV needs adjustment as the bulge in the bell curve has obviously moved.

    PS: I think $3,500 is cheap for a quality paint job.

    MODERATOR

  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Perhaps "educating the seller" is a more appropriate phrase than "convincing the seller".

    I'm not trying to make him believe that 2+2=5. By getting an appraisal, I look at it more as providing the seller with an "eye-opening" experience &/or a dose of modern reality.

    Some folks are blind not because they lack eyes, but because they just can't see.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,537
    Sometimes an appraisal is good because it helps to re-assure the seller that he isn't selling too cheap.

    But even that can backfire. I appraised a certain Ferrari at $115K about 3 years ago. Well, just last month I hear from a friend of the former owner who says "you appraised that car too cheaply...I just saw one sell at $165,000!"

    Well, DUH..the market has had three years to favor this particular model, and also the $165K car was superb in all respects, while the $115K Ferrari of 1999 needed some chrome, paintwork, interior work, etc.

    So figure a modest appreciation per year + the $20K needed for re-hab and there you are.

    But try telling that to the judge.

    MODERATOR

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,628
    Of course, the seller will scour the old car publications looking for the source that gives the highest value. THAT becomes what the car is worth!

    It sounds like you are 2000.00 apart and that's not much, really.

    I don't remember...have you seen and driven the car?

    A Cashier's Check for 13,000 waved in front of him might just do the trick.

    You can always have some hundreds in your pocket!
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- - =2407097649

    The most recent auction ended with a high bid of $9,100 which didn't meet the dealer's reserve. This guy must be nuts. I think that's plenty-O-money for this car. So now, this car is back up again. The bidding's been pretty active in the few hours it's been on.

    I kind of like the blue over red color combo. It's different than the tons of red/white and white/red ones I generally see.

    I almost bought a dark silver '64 DeVille convertible with red interior this past fall. I offered around $11,000. But, the seller wanted more.
  • to me ....

    there is nothing better than driving nearly 20 foot of 1970 Cadillac DeVille convertible!

    Went to the coast last week - what a sweet cruise - it was only a couple hours away but all in all ---- there was nothing I would have preferred doing other than maybe fishing!!

    .......... but with the top down - all my poles can be fully assembled!
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,902
    I want to get ahold of a '61-62 Caddy. I don't even care if it's just a 4-door hardtop. I just love that style.
  • Gotta see this!

    RARE Eldo Coup Hard Top link from ebay!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,561
    Nice looking old boat. I wonder what's up with that one.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,537
    Looks like the bidders are treating it like a curiosity rather than a real car. It's rather unlikely, dare we say impossible, that a company would build one of something and nobody would know anything about it.

    Probably a dealer or exec custom job of some sort---I've seen these.

    MODERATOR

  • ghuletghulet Posts: 2,628
    I'd imagine there were quite a few 'special order' cars off the books, especially on cars like Cadillacs, for dealers, execs, etc. It could also have been restored with Eldo parts, which wouldn't shock me, though on this vintage, I don't know why they'd bother. I'm pretty sure, with the exception of the trim and the 'this or that model only' paint colors (which weren't enforced all that stringently), the rest of the supposedly Eldo-specific stuff (the power buckets, certainly the power locks and vents) could be ordered on Coupe de Villes. May be some exec walked into the factory, slipped some workers a C-note and had them slap this thing together? Seems we'll never know. I guess I'm saying the car is pretty and unusual, but given my usual level of cynicism, I wouldn't pay a huge premium it. Nice car, and I like the color, which is half the battle among '50s and early '60s cars for me (hold the pinks and aquas, please, in most cases).
  • ..... back in the day - Special Order was normal!

    You went in and looked at the models and ordered your car with the features you wanted!

    Now A Days - you get what they have or what is in another dealers inventory that your dealer can locate in the manufacturers network of active inventory (I used to be in New Car Sales)

    It used to take a few months to get your car!

    That is why it used to be such a BIG DEAL when that years new cars were unveiled!

    People would flock to the dealer just to see what was new.

    ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! The Good Ol' Times Of Yesteryear .......

    Gosh!

    When did I get old
    ! ? ?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,902
    When did I get old ! ? ?

    I ask myself that sometimes. I remember when I was a little kid, a 20 year old car had a wraparound windshield, tailfins, and two-toning. A whole different era. Nowadays a 20 year old car is a Taurus or Audi 5000, something that really doesn't look that out of style compared to today's cars.
  • badgerpaulbadgerpaul Posts: 219
    My parents could keep in line for a month just by threatening not to take me out to see the "new" cars when they came out. One time I was given the choice of no TV for a week or not going to see the new cars, that was a no brainer and the new 64's were beautiful.
  • I'm new to the Cadillac forums, spending my time on the Lincoln side of things, but I thought I'd come over here and see what's being talked about. To whomever started this thread on the '62 Cadillacs, there's a bloke in Norway who runs a great website, and his ride is a '62.

    Hot Cars by Hans Tangerud

    He has a great website, and I'm sure he'd love to talk '62 Cadillacs.
  • 62caddy62caddy Posts: 1
    Hey all of you cadillac lovers, i will be posting a 1962 caddy on ebay on july 14th, please look at it, super super condition, original everthing, low low miles
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Since I'm the one who started this thread, I've resurrected this discussion - and here's why . . . .

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Cadillac-Eldorado-Convertible_W0QQitemZ23038- 2833903QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item35a3e310ef&_trksid=p4506.c0.m2- 45

    When I started this thread several years ago, I was trying to buy this car. I don't mean one like it, I mean THIS specific car. I came close, but no cigar. That was one wife ago and when both of my kids were, well . . . . kids. Now, both are in college - which with "stereo tuition payments" partially explains why I'm no longer "gah-gah" over this car.

    Here's my question. What's it worth today? Here's a little history. The previous owner, when I was trying to buy it, purchased it for $16K at the Kruse 1996 Labor Day auction in Auburn, IN. At that time, it had undergone a restoration around 1990 - though certainly not a thorough, frame-off effort. More of a sympathetic one in all likelihood. The owner back then readily admitted to me that he probably paid too much but the car just "spoke to him" while it was on the auction block. When I came across it in 2001, it was in a museum in Kokomo, Indiana and I offered around $13-14K. It did eventually sell later that year for around $16K. So now, its back on the market and is located about an hour from me. It's condition is pretty much the way I last saw it in 2001. It's not deteriorated, but hasn't been seriously touched either. The car does NOT have A/C.

    Like I said, I'm no longer in the market as this car is out of my system.
    It was on ebay last week and ended with a high bid of $15,110 which didn't meet its reserve. It has been relisted and can be purchased with the "buy it now" option for $35K which is ridiculous, I know.

    Personally, I think it's probably still worth around $16K (maybe 20K if the moon and stars align just right), but what does everyone else think?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,537
    Yes, $16K to $20K seems about ballpark for this car. Actually given the 2009 economic situation, the eBay bids were right on the mark.

    MODERATOR

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,902
    Like I said, I'm no longer in the market as this car is out of my system.

    Funny you'd say that, because I've found that the '62 Cadillac has starting to get back into my system! Well '61-62, actually, as I'm not that picky and like both years.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,561
    There was a '61 Caddy in the recent '24 Hours of Lemons' Looks like it is sturdier than a 59 Chevy anyway.
This discussion has been closed.