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What's my classic worth?

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    I didn't see any body ID tags, only the VIN number, which really doesn't tell you very much.

    It's definitely not a real SS and the underside photos might show some problems.

    It's a car you have to see to evaluate. Being a fake, the value is heavily contingent on the quality of the workmanship. It could be worth $35K, it could be worth $20K.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,969
    My tastes on 60's big Chevies run a bit different, I guess. Loved the '59, hated the '59. Liked the '60. LOVE the '61 and '62. '63 is okay, but I just don't care for the front-end, and the way they started creasing it up, it just didn't come off as sporty to me. And the '64 is just too flat-faced IMO. I guess I just like that gentle forward thrust of the '62 better.

    I also love the '65 Chevy, but there was just something about the '66 I didn't care for quite as much. Rear end is actually improved, but the front just seems a bit heavy-handed, compared to the '65. IMO, 1967 was when they really started trading the sport for wanna-be luxury, and even though the rooflines got sleeker, which you would think should equate with sportiness, they just got TOO fat looking. I do kinda like the '68, though. And the '69-70.

    As for cruise control, my '69 Bonneville had it. The only real difference that I could tell, as far as looks go, was that the turn signal stalk had a little button on the end, and there was the word "CRUISE" printed on the stalk, with an arrow pointing toward the button. I dunno how it worked though, as it wasn't functioing when I bought the car. I guess you just pressed the button and it would hold whatever speed you were at, and then if you braked it would disengage, and you'd have to re-set it. No resume, accelerate, or any of that other stuff we take for granted today. If you wanted cruise on a 60's car, maybe you could just find the setup on a more luxurious car that had it, and get it to fit? You wouldn't get all the functions of a modern system, but it's better than nothing, I guess.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Actually, the non-factory cruise controls I've seen look like little plastic boxes that are attached to the turn signal stalk. Surely, there has to be a way to install a modern CC system on an older car with a dash-mounted engagement button. Custom/hot rodders do it all the time.

    Regarding that black 1963 SS clone, while there's a lot about that car I like, in the long run, I think an actual SS with a nice 327 would be a better investment. That way, at least you know what you've got - and so would everyone else when it comes time to sell. IMO, the 409 isn't worth the extra money when you're just crusing around. And, if you're foolish enough to compete in a stoplight race behind the wheel of a 40+ year old car, an "actual" real deal 409 still won't beat many modern performance cars.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    BTW, it would appear, based on the comments, that the black '63 Impala convertible is not an SS. But, I just happened to notice that the seller posted the VIN number in the body of the ad. Here it is. VIN: 31867J161876

    Does this clear up the mystery?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    No that just tells you it's an Impala 8 cylinder built in Wisconsin.

    It's really not a mystery---it's not an SS. It's missing lots of the parts.

    The 409 isn't all that great an engine---IIRC it's just a bored out 348 truck engine. If it was so great, they would have used it more---it had a very limited production and was dropped in favor of the 396.

    At least it has power steering. Driving a manual steering Chevy from the early 60s is a lot like pushing a shopping cart down a hill.

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  • texasestexases Posts: 5,575
    For this car's expected use, cruising and showing, the Beach Boy connection trumps practicality for many...
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Earlier today, I said that an original '63 Impala SS with a "mere" 327 motor would be a better investment. I happened to see a nice one for sale in the car corral at the Fall Kruse auction in Auburn, IN. Well, 'lo and behold! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/63-IMPALA-SS-CONV-IMMACULATE-NUMBER-MATCH_W0QQite- mZ290185997407QQihZ019QQcategoryZ6169QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    Fellas, this is THE exact car I saw and I can tell you that it is a nice one. It was definitely my favorite in the corral and perhaps my favorite I saw all day - for the money. At the time, the seller was asking around $45,000. Now, on Ebay, the asking price has magically jumped to $53,900. The paint and interior are in very good condition. I really like the color because it's not the usual red or black. I was also pleasantly surprised to see that it has a tilt steering column - which is something I'd want. The door had a very satisfying and solid sound when I closed it.

    Before leaving the grounds, I went back to look at this car and write down the seller's phone number, but the car was gone. Perhaps, by showing up on Ebay, this car is sending me a sign? LOL! But, this car doesn't look like it has power steering or power brakes (can anyone confirm that for me?) - which are features I'd want. Plus, I was thinking that $45K was too steep, even for as nice as it is. Doubt the seller would agree based on his current asking price.

    Pretty neat seeing a car on Ebay that I've actually touched.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    Nope, no power steering or brakes, which is really too bad. And there's really no proof it isn't a fake. The numbers that year can't verify. You'd need a build sheet or window sticker.

    It's definitely overpriced for a 327 without options. I'd say $42,500 is all the money here.

    The "mere" 327 is about a $12,000 deduct off a 409 motor.

    He's asking 409 documented SS money for an undocumented 327. I don't think so.

    Horsepower = $$

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  • texasestexases Posts: 5,575
    You're right about the steering and brakes - no pump or booster. Very nice otherwise...long as it's not my money!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    Big car like that is awful to drive with p/s, p/b around town.

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  • texasestexases Posts: 5,575
    Tell me about it - I grew up with an all - manual '63 Dodge Polara with the 383:
    image
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,969
    I'm sure power steering would be a necessity, but nonpower brakes might not be *that* bad. I had a 1967 Newport a few years back with nonpower brakes. I didn't think it was that big of a deal to stop...until the brakes failed, that is! :surprise:

    Even more telling, the previous owner was a little old lady who had owned it since 1971. So if SHE could stop it with those brakes, anybody could! I think the main thing that made power brakes mandatory was when they started switching to disc brakes. It takes a lot more pedal force to stop a disc brake car than a drum brake car.

    Still, I'd rather have power brakes than not have them, but I dunno if it would be a deal breaker for me.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,575
    Here's where the 'hi-po' aspect of the SS comes into play - if you use that hp, better brakes can be quite helpful!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    When you're driving a really large 60s car with manual transmission, brakes and steering slowly around town, you are really WORKING in that cockpit.

    Nothing nicer than twirling that power steering with your little finger and putting it in "D" for drive when you have a huge car on your hands.

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  • parmparm Posts: 723
    I contacted the seller and relayed to him how I'd seen his car in Auburn. And, while I told him I thought he had a very nice car, I also said I thought it was priced more along the lines of a fully-documented 409 '63 SS and that I, as a buyer, would want some documentation such as a window sticker or build sheet. He wrote back with the following:

    Let me tell you the story on what happened with my car at the Kruse auction. It sold for $55K. I knew the man personally. He went to his dr. and the bank on Tuesday morning. He brought the money to me. He also told me his dr. had given him 6 mos. to live that morning. He said he had made a deal and would honor it. His family would have to liquidate the car when he was gone. I gave his money back. He is gravely ill as we speak. I am a buyer for a collector auto company. I have seen these cars bring $60K and above. I think I am reasonably priced at $53900.00. Even if it does not sell on Ebay, it will sell.

    I wrote him back to say that was quite a story and wished him luck. Whad-da-ya think? Should I have instead said, "That would be quite a story . . . . if it were true". ??
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    Who knows?

    But at any rate, one sale of one car does not make a market or set fair market value.

    Compare these prices:

    http://cars-on-line.com/29852.html

    http://cars-on-line.com/33343.html

    http://www.findcars.com/a.php3?q=216204

    MODERATOR

  • I have a 1964 Plymouth Valiant that I plan to sell soon. Can anyone give me an estimate of it's value so I don't get taken advantage of? It has a slant 6 engine, push-button automatic transmission, 2 doors, 160,000 miles or so. The brakes don't work, engine worked last time it was driven, but needs new battery, oil, etc. (probably hoses/belts). The front seat is torn up quite a bit, there is some rust on the outside, and there is an after market tape deck/speakers installed that doesn't work. It wouldn't take much to get it running, but to restore it would be quite a task. It's been sitting in the driveway for 3 years and needs to be cleaned more. How much do you think I could sell it for, and should I at least get the engine running before I sell it? Thanks for any suggestions.

    Photos
    http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g153/HarmonicWave/valiant_front.jpg
    http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g153/HarmonicWave/valiant_back.jpg
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    Probably $500 bucks would be all there is.

    Here's one that's in better shape than yours for $1200

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/489790776.html

    MODERATOR

  • texasestexases Posts: 5,575
    If you're handy, you'll get a lot more interest for a car that starts and stops than one that doesn't, and the parts shouldn't be too much. The line 'wouldn't take much to get it running' scares off lots of folks. I wouldn't worry about belts and hoses, just the stuff to get it in driving condition (and a quick wash wouldn't hurt).

    p.s. -- get a gas cap, too.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,969
    I'd say definitely get it cleaned up to where it looks more presentable, and see if you can get it running fairly reasonably. I think those are neat little cars, but unless it's a V-8, hardtop, or convertible, those old Valiants don't bring much, even in primo condition.

    See if you can find out what's up with the brakes, too. It could just be something as simple as a rotten brake hose. That car has three of them...1 that connects at the rear suspension and one for each front wheel. They're like $15 apiece. Of course, if it's been sitting that long, it could have bad spots in the metal lines as well, all over, just waiting to fail. Still, if you can get the brakes working, that can be the difference between a 2500 pound metal bookend and a saleable car.

    My guess is that as it sits, you'd be lucky to get $100-200 for it. But if you cleaned it up, got it running, and the brakes working, maybe $1500? Nobody would ever restore it, unless they were really sentimental for it, because you could probably get a really nice one for $4-5,000, and the nicest Valiant 2-door sedan in the world still probably wouldn't fetch $10K.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    Here's a V8 that needs resto, but runs and drives, for $1100

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/car/490069059.html

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  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,969
    I kinda like that one. That thing would be a real hoot if it had the 235 hp 273-4bbl. But I'm guessing it just has the more mundane 2-bbl, which I think put out around 180-190 hp. I'd think even that would be kinda fun in something so light, though.
  • I don't want to put any more than $50 into it or so, so I'll probably just get the engine running. If I wash it and get the engine running would $500 be reasonable, or would I be getting ripped off? Thanks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    no, you'd be fine at $500.

    you can always "test" the market at put a price of $995 and see what happens. You can always come down. You'd have to get it running for that amount of $$$. (Not drivable necessarily, but running) If I were in your shoes, I'd put a really cheap price on it and kiss it goodbye when the first person with real money waves it at you. There's not a big market for this kind of car, so each buyer you meet might be the last you'll see for a while.

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  • texasestexases Posts: 5,575
    Engine running, no brakes? Seems like $500 would be reasonable. Body looks pretty good. Try charging the battery, set the timing and the points, check the oil, see if it'll start. Old gas could be a problem. Without brakes, no test drive, so they're still taking a risk, will keep price down.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-CHEVROLET-IMPALA-SUPER-SPORT-CONVERTIBLE_W0Q- - QitemZ160184962289QQihZ006QQcategoryZ6169QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    Your $42,500 value estimate is UNCANNY! - as evidenced by the $44,500 "Buy It Now" price of this current auction. The link above is for a nearly identical '63 SS Impala convertible except this one is an automatic. But, it has power steering and power disc brakes (added later). What'd you do Shifty? Bribe the seller to ask this price to prove your point? LOL!

    Seriously. Good call on the one in Indiana. Go to the head of the class. ;) ;) ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    nice find! How do I do it? Well, this is what I do for a living!

    Actually on a 327 Impala SS, I'd prefer the automatic.

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,693
    In my not so humble opinion...

    The first (black) '63 just screams MICKEY MOUSE!

    It looks like a hobbled up reconstructed pieced together wreck.

    The guy is looking for a sucker.

    The second one is much better.

    It's hard to tell what color that is but it doesn't look like any color Chevy offered that year. I could be wrong though.

    Having owned both, I would much rather have a 300 HP 327 than a 409 although the 409 is the one that brings the big money.

    The lack of power brakes (to me) isn't a big deal but the manual steering would be a major turn off.

    Why would anyone buy that car new without power steering?

    Another clue that Uncle Mickey could have paid this car a visit too.
  • I am posting in concern to our 1966 F-100 custom cab short bed ford truck. It is not running but contains the all original parts and would be a breeze to rebuild. The body its in good conditon besides one small dent in the front fender. Body has no rust exposed on the body. I really would appreciate some help trying to figure out what to sell it for.. If you could assist me I would appreciate it., cause I already tried the link you left the other gentleman who bought the one with 80,000 original miles. Rachelle :confuse: :confuse:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,844
    Well if it's not running that's kind of a big deal and will affect the price considerably. Without seeing it, I'd guess $2,000 to $3500 is about all there is here. Engine size is also important here.

    If it were running well, and had decent old paint and presentable interior and good tires, and was a 352 V8, and could drive 500 miles reliably, it might be worth $5K--$6K

    If it were restored to show condition, it might be worth $15K--$18K

    MODERATOR

This discussion has been closed.