Saturn ION

uga91

I agree about the incentives--with $2000 to $3000 off right now, they are hard to beat for the money in terms of features you get.

uga91

Your wife drives 36,000 miles a year? Have you guysd tried a VW TDI? She is in the target market for sure!

vocus

I heard a radio commercial for a local Saturn dealer avertising up to $3750 off new VUEs and IONs in stock...

To the cars' credit, it's not really a buyer's market right now due to the economy. But still, all those rebates on brand new models? That doesn't bode well for resale down the road.

vocus

I just assumed that they brought the car back, because it has less than 1500 miles on it. It might be a different situation. I am not really anti-ION either, I take the car for what it is. An economy car with a funky interior and nice engine, but still no power and poor fuel economy...

dindak

Reg : Like Subarus a lot these days, they are growing on me. Kia Rio is a joke. PT is totally cool, I'll consider one even though my wife hates them.

alpha01 : I never see anyone under 40 driving a Camry. The new model is hideous, Accord will take over top spot in sales this year I predict. Toyota did a good job with the Corolla, clearly the Camry crew were smoking pot when they designed that beast.

afk_x : Do you think Saturn will ever abandon the 1 price policy? I agree with you on the ION, it has a lot of strong points which seem to get missed in reviews.

vocus

Have fun driving your friend's new wagon. Curious of your driving impressions of it.

dunworth

I am glad people are coming in to see the Ion because of its looks. I really want Saturn to succeed having been a loyal Saturn owner for more than 10 years and a loyal GM customer for more than 20.

Although I currently drive two Japanese compacts (03 Civic and 02 Corolla) I still have lots of money on my GM Visa card and would like to have something to buy with it eventually. We will change our Corolla in 3 years for a new (but bigger) compact and it sure would be nice to use those points. GM is making improvements in its other lines but I have never liked the dealer service from any of the Big 3. Saturn at least allowed me to drive an American car with decent quality and superb service. I am a dealer's dream customer since I buy new every few years and always service at the dealer I buy from.

If I was to buy a new car right now it would the the 03 Corolla which is much larger than mine or the new 04 Lancer (since I already have a Civic). I would definitely buy an Ion if they changed the interior, fixed the odd character lines on the outside, and put in a nice grill. The shape of the car is actually quite decent - kind of like a scaled down '04 Maxima.

The reviews are not good but I remember the reviews for the S series were never rave reviews either. Most did not car for the baby Oldsmobile styling and I remember one review (Car and Driver or Road and Track)comparing the S with trying to get a date for a fat cousin, "she's very sweet, nice personality etc" (no offense to any fat cousins). Despite the luke warm press the S series sold really well.

So keep us informed how things are going at the dealer end.

aveman

It is nice to here people comenting on the ride quality of the Ion.To the best of my memory, even the reviews that were critical about the Ion stated that it has a nice ride and handles well.They also comment that the brakes work very well.I am not an engineer, but I belive that the Auto trans mission can be tweeked over time in software. The same may be true of the steering.Many cars seem to have updates regarding auto trans, because they are so complex.As for interior looks, I would rather have a great driving car than one that looks nicer inside. But, everyone is different.Some of the nice small cars may not match up to the Ion on the highway.If highway driving is important, perhaps the Ion can score some extra points there.

alpha01

This isnt a Camry board, but styling is far more objective than ride quality or acceleration, and unless we are talking Aztek here, really doesnt matter. I find the new Accord far uglier, but like I said, doesnt mean much.

vuefor2:
Have you ever been in the rear seat of your ION? Hardly feels biggest in class, but even if it was, it wouldnt matter, since the seat is poorly shaped and pretty uncomfortable. Ditto the front seats.

~alpha

uga91

I think most of the interior volume is given to the front as the rear legroom is pretty small in this class, I believe. I think it only has 33" of rear legroom while many other cars in this class have 35" or more. There is a lot of space given to the trunk as well. The Focus is about 10" shorter overall, but has 1 more cu ft of interior volume than the Ion.

dindak

aveman : You are right, everyone has their own priorities. The ION is a very large "small car".

alpha : New Camry is not as ugly as the Aztek or Element, but it's not far off. The ones with the base tires look especially horrid. Accord is a dream machine in comparison.

saturnfreak01

As I haven't posted here in a while, some of you may remember that I purchased a 2003 L200 Premium SE (or so I thought). I recently started having doubts as to whether it would have enough power for my needs and ended up ditching it for an 2003 L300.

  My L300 is medium blue in color (which wasn't my first choice) but I got a really good deal. It was whats called a "Visability" car (demo).. However it was never used as a demo, nor was it ever registered. It has 10 miles on the odometer.. The list price of the car was $ 22,040 which includes the comfort / conv pkg.. I received the $ 3000.00 Saturn rebate, $ 1000.00 GM loyalty rebate, and another $ 3000.00 market adjustment making the total price $ 15,040.00 for a brand new L300. all I could say was WOW.

drivinisfun

The "Deal" is what moves the metal at GM, not the product virtues.

himiler

Generally I'd tend to agree with you, but in sturnfreak's case, I'm not so sure. $15K for a brand new L300 strikes me as one helluva good deal! The car has plenty of power, nice steering, good brakes and solid ride/handling.

Jeez...I'm no fan of GM, but getting a well-engineered, good-quality car at a Korean-car price sure turns my head.

Good for you, saturnfreak! Congrats on the new car!

regfootball

"Saturn at least allowed me to drive an American car"

your 02 Corolla was made in CALIFORNIA and the 03 Corolla is made in CANADA......

vocus....I had to give my friend crap, as he is a macho republican and now his wife has made him buy a Jetta wagon and Subaru wagon. Chick cars for the macho man! He says we'll have to put the NRA and Pro-Bush stickers in the back window before the test drive.

drivinisfun

Yeah, I was driving behind a new Staturn L300 sedan today in a sort of light blue color (Very nice) and I must admit the car looks great from the back (I still question the front end treatment.

But in the realm of Saturn's design excercises, the L Series (a.k.a Old Opel Vectra) is the best looking car in the whole lineup.

Too bad the L series is an outdated car now. Check out the all new Vectra being sold in Europe (www.opel.com) since last year and this new platform will soon make its day view in American shores as the 2004 Chevy Malibu.

Saturn is looking like it is in real trouble.

alpha01

"Saturn is looking like it is in real trouble."

Short, sweet, and to the point. I completely agree.

alpha

dindak

Saturn sales were up 10% last month

vabiker

Any word that incentives will truly end on 31 March 2003?

As an aside, I test drove an ION-1 this week and asked about S-series vehicles on the lot. I was verbally told that there weren't any incentives and they were still sticker price. I sent an inquiry to Saturn and they replied that there are incentives on the S-series same as the ION.

Is anyone else looking at an S-series versus an ION versus something else? Can't say much for the continuity of information regarding incentives...

regfootball

10% over what, last year? Was the Vue offered at this time last year? It would be fair to compare 3 models vs. 3 models.....but 2 vs. 3, if that is the case of course your sales will be up at least 10%. Should be more like 50%.

afk_x

But here in the Western region sales are rocking. VUEs are almost sold out and IONs continue to move briskly.

The main thing that is nice to see is the large nunmber of people coming in who don't currently own Saturns.

ab348

According to Dindak:
"New Camry is not as ugly as the Aztek or Element, but it's not far off. The ones with the base tires look especially horrid. Accord is a dream machine in comparison."
==

While I agree that the Camry is no beauty contest winner, to use it in the same sentence as the Aztek is a bit much for even a blindly loyal GM supporter. Especially in a forum discussing the ION, which has it's own set of visual faults. I am starting to find the Camry's design beginning to pull together visually for me. Not perfect, but not a travesty like the others.

Speaking of travesty, last week I was on a Saturn dealers lot locally and spotted a black ION with Pepto-Bismol pink roof rail inserts. Made me need some Pepto myself...

dindak

ab348 : Camry is ugly IMO. Lots of people think the Aztek and Element look good too. Everyone has an opinion, looks are subjective.

Reg : VUE was out last year. It went on sale in Nov/ December 2001. 10% is the real deal, sorry to disappoint. I know how you hate Saturn.

dunworth

You are right I technically drive two "new domestics"

Actually both my Corolla and Civic are made in Canada. The Civic is made in Alliston a small town about one hour north of Toronto while the Toyota is made in Cambridge, a city about 1 hour west of Toronto. As you said, the Corolla is also made in the NUMMI plant in Freemont California. The second Civic plant in North America is located in East Liberty Ohio.

Canada is a net exporter of both the Civic and Corolla, mostly to the US.

With regards to the Camry, I am with dindak on this one. It is an ungainly design, especially in the base LE trim level with those small wheels. The back end is too big although in the XLE level it looks much better. I would still buy one but in the nicer trim level. It is a great midsize car. I think "Maximum Bob" Lutz from GM called the Camry one of the ugliest designs but the car looks OK because it is so beautifully executed - touche. You can do ugly/ungainly as long as you do it well. That's why I like the Echo better than the Ion. Both are starnge but the Echo at least has nice fit and finish and very refined for such a cheap car.

vocus

Congrats on the new car, again. I never drove the L300, but I hear it's got some nice power. I rented an L200 awhile ago, and I liked it except for the boring-ish driving experience (pretty standard-fare for a mid-size family car). I saw an 02 L200 w/15K for $10,375 and it's very tempting in order to lower my monthly expenses from the VW that I have now...

How did you get the 'market adjustment' on the car too, in addition to the rebate? I thought they were one in the same. Definitely going to check out an L300 or LW300 this weekend if I have time. BTW, I HATE the chrome rear on the L sedans, and the front looks like a Mercury Sable to me.

vocus

Why does everyone call the Jetta a chick car? I never got that. I know a LOT more men than women who have those.

uga91

We started by looking at 2002 S-Series models for the $4000 off MSRP they are being offered for. But, with the GM loyalty rebate, the Ion is $3000 off MSRP with a bigger interior, trunk and engine. Not too mention the all new car versus the discontinued model. That switched us to Ion.

vuefor2

Vocus - Everyone I know who has a Jetta is a woman. That said, I'm not sure it's really a chick car, it just seems to attract women buyers.

Dunworth - Corolla is a nice looking car, don't like the Echo or Camry at all. Marix is ok, actually like the Vibe better.

saturnfreak - Should have bot an Ion ;-)

d2000one1

http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0303/21/d01-114629.htm

saturnfreak01

Honestly Im not quite sure why Saturn gave the market adjustment on a car with no miles, other than it was marked to be a demo as I was told, but Saturn mixed up registrations and never ended up registering this one.. I guess they just cut their losses to move the car.. My gain.. Now I just have to figure out which warranty to buy, if one at all... I probably won't keep it more than four or five years thou..

 I almost bought a BORRRRING camry for its quiet ride, but at a few thousand less for a more powerful L with the V6, and a more entertaining ride combined with being treated like a human being by Saturn VS. pond skum at Toyota my decision was easy.

regfootball

"The problem does lie in design," Wall said. "They're getting the story out, but people aren't buying the story."

They do just need to fix a couple things.

"The segment is looking for an extraordinary product and since it's a buyer's market, people can be choosy."

Well, why wouldn't they expect people to be choosy? I don't get that statement at all. Everyone wants an "extraoordinary product".

ab348

"Camry is ugly IMO. Lots of people think the Aztek and Element look good too. Everyone has an opinion, looks are subjective."

Oh, come on. I can't speak for the Element - it looks like the box the Aztek came in - but the Aztek has been a laughingstock from day one. To say "lots of people" think it looks good is simply absurd. And for Lutz to call a Camry "grotesque" while being at the helm of a company churning out things like the Aztek and Avalanche suggests that his understanding of the business may be less than the hype surrounding him. They aren't even in the same league.

regfootball

Camry - ok...at least it doesn't look like a Grand Am.
Element - 'quirky', but still not wierd. Quirky in an inoffensive, nice sort of way, like Crispin Glover in Back to the Future.
Aztek - heinous (but has a lot of cargo room)
Ion - trying hard to be 'quirky' but it 'crossed the line' to very wierd, like Crispin Glover on David Letterman, but is not 'heinous'.

a_l_hubcaps

I think the Aztek would have made a good Saturn. Although it isn't a hot seller, customer satisfaction is extroardinarily high. I think the Aztek is a quintessential example of a "cult car"; owners really love the vehicle and everyone else thinks they're crazy. Couple that with the Saturn sales philosophy -- which caters to the same kinds of people -- and I think the Aztek would be a perfect fit for Saturn. Maybe GM should do a little SUV rearrangement. Give the Aztek to Saturn, the Vue to Chevy and the upcoming Equinox to Pontiac :-)

-Andrew L

uga91

Tested an Ion 2 with auto, convenience package and alloys today. Thought about the Ion 3 for just a little more money, but I can't get over the cloth design of the seats and I don't like the alloys it comes with--but I like its tires more, of course. I like it. I think it is a much better car than the SL2 I have now. We will see how things go and may "pull the trigger" tomorrow.

dindak

uga91 : Good luck.

Reg : Tested an ION 3 this afternoon just for fun. I was impressed with the ride and handling. It was a good little car. Unlike you, I have no issues with the center IP. The steering wheel size is great but the marsh mellow in the middle would be best gone. Seats were good, power seemed fine though I think our Alero with the same engine is definitely a tad faster. I also think the rear seat head room is a bit low. Anyone taller than 5'11 mat have trouble.

ab348 : Like I said, Camry's looks are my opinion. Aztek, Camry, Echo, Tiburon, Santa Fe and Element are all in the same ugly league.

regfootball

ddk...do you get ANY road feel with that electric power steering?

Did it corner flat or did it roll over and die like most small sedans?

Too bad you can't just take a Vibe steering wheel and plunk it in an Ion.

wwhite2

Can anyone say that they like the 16" wheels on th ION 3 ? I cant stand them .....am i being to harsh ???

regfootball

no, not harsh at all. they are nasty.

those wheels are leftovers from the production run of the 'isuzu impulse' back in the mid 80's.

afk_x

Can you elaborate on this statement?

"...owners really love the vehicle and everyone else thinks they're crazy. Couple that with the Saturn sales philosophy -- which caters to the same kinds of people..."

Are you saying that the Saturn sales philosphy caters to crazy people?

dindak

wwhite : I think they are fine. They suit the car. The car I drove had the alloys.

Reg : I don't drive compacts very often, but the handling was decent compared to the compacts I remember driving over the past 3 years. Totally forgot about the electric steering until I got home so I guess I didn't really notice. I agree with you on the wheel.

alpha01

If you are talking about the big ugly ones that look like a 4-prong magnet is holding design together, then yes, those are really ugly, and not well suited to a top of the line trim.
Of the alloy wheels that come standard on cars, I must say that I like the Accord EX 4 cyl 15 inchers, with their machined/glossy finish. OTOH, I do not like the EX V6 rims, I think they look cheap. I also like the Camry SE 16 inch alloys, and XLE are alright. Mazda gets the prize-puts decent alloys on all its vehicles.

~alpha

a_l_hubcaps

afk_x-

Hehe, that isn't quite what I meant :-) I meant that Saturn buyers tend to be quirky/nerdy types who really like their cars for their versatility and usefulness, and don't really care what traditional car enthusiasts think of their vehicles. Judging from the people I've met who own or like Saturns, I suspect that they are more Aztek types than Vue types.

By the way, I'm not implicitly bashing the Aztek. I actually like Azteks and would look at one if I had the money to buy a new vehicle. I'm just saying that the Aztek seems to be a good fit with the Saturn philosophy.

-Andrew L

regfootball

"I meant that Saturn buyers tend to be quirky/nerdy types who really like their cars for their versatility and usefulness"

I thought that was Subaru owners.

"If you are talking about the big ugly ones that look like a 4-prong magnet is holding design together, then yes, those are really ugly"

I thought they looked more like the burner element on top of your kitchen range.

vocus

I drove an ION 1, 2, and 3 at the Saturn press preview I went to back in September or so, 2002. The power steering was frighteningly light, but not as twitchy as the Alero's is. The wheels are fugly as well, agree with you there.

dindak

Alero steering twitchy? Not in real life it isn't. ION steering was a little on the lite side, but it was fine. Frightening, not unless you believe in ghosts.

vocus

The Alero rental I had was way too light to the touch, for me anyway. I prefer a heavier feel to the wheel. The ION is the same way as the Alero.

regfootball

maybe the rental alero didn't have a tire upgrade.

dlp314

We are about to purchase a Saturn Ion 2 for my 16 yr old daughter. Any thoughts, pro or con , would be appreciated. We tested it, thought the look and handling were OK. Safety features were a plus.

alpha01

I think ION is probably a very value conscious and wise investment for a new female driver. Indeed, the availability of side curtain airbags is a plus- but keep in mind that Saturn does not offer the curtain SRS with a typical torso chest bag. Other than the curtains, which safety features are you talking about?
~alpha