Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Saturn ION

145791067

Comments

  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    new corolla is the best thing going right now. Engine could be a bit bigger....

    Protege is the most fun small car.
  • magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    Having driven a few Protege, I don't see how it's as fun. It feels a bit sharper, but less secure than a Focus. I have more confidence that the Focus' suspension can handle it, whereas the Protege feels more like a roller coaster after a while.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Corolla looks good (beats the Civic for sure), but the prices are very high (list and mkt finance rates) right now as it is new. After incentives we got out Ecotec powered Alero for the same price as a similar equip. Corolla.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    The Alero is going to be worth next to nothing in about 4 years though, due to the phase-out of the brand. The Toyota will be worth as much or more that's owed on it after the same 4 years.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    Corolla has a nicer interior and feels more spacious then the low slung Alero.

    The Corolla could use about 20 more hp though.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I disagree. Intrigue is already done and resale is no different than any other F-body. Alero is a much more popular car so I see no reason to believe your theory. Re-sale will be about the same as a Grand Am. Compare re-sale to sale price and the difference is not great anyway and factor in my additional $2000 Olds Credit and I'm even further ahead.

    -------

    Corolla engine is definitely the weak point. The Ecotec is a better engine. It will be the strong point of the ION.
  • verozahlverozahl Member Posts: 574
    okay kids, let's buy a Grand Am, Alero, and an ION and see who gets the best resale value in four years!

    cmon kids, it'll be fun...
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Resale numbers are for accountants, not car buffs.

    Lets get back to the ION. I have seen zero info on the car lately.

    Noticed today Saturn is number one in satisfaction again. Pretty impressive.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Isn't the F-body the Camaro and Firebird? I think the Intrigue isnt based upon the same architecture, therefore why compare its resale value to that of two muscle cars?

    Also, I'm curious as to why everyone is bashing the 1.8L in the Corolla..with 130 hp (and lower curb weight) it matches well with the 130 hp Proteges, Foci, and standard engine class topping 140hp Elantras, etc. Motor Trend even got a CE 5sp model to sixty in 7.9 seconds... whats the big deal? The Ecotec may have a bit more power, but by design, that engine is heavier, and doesnt achieve the mileage that the Corolla does. (At least not in Alero/L-series form.. surely, the ION, beign lighter, may fare better)
    ~alpha
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Ooops.. not the F-body. I'm sorry, my mistake. Same platform as Grand Prix/Impala, can't remember the letter now.

    1.8 in Corolla is ok, but I find it a little noisy and with an automatic it seemed a little gutless. That said, mileage is good. Not bashing it at all, just saying I prefer engines like V-tec and Ecotec.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    http://www.auto.com/industry/iwirg11_20020711.htm


    alpha01:: I think the 1.8L in the Toyota Corolla is a little buzzy also. It's a good engine though. We test drove a Matrix and I remember my wife commenting on it.

  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I wanna say it's the N-body, but not exactly sure either. :)
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Frekin' GM and their letter designations! Always tryin to confuse everyone! Can anyone solve the Grand Prix/Regal/Intrigue mystery? Vocus... I'm not sure either, but I think the N body is the Grand Am platform.
    ~alpha

    The more I see the ION on the net, and after having seen it at NYIAS, I really am interested to drive it.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    "Frekin' GM and their letter designations.."

    The W body is the GP/Intrique/Impala/Regal.

    Almost every maker uses Alpha codes for their cars, just that people use GM's codes since they are used in different brands.

    Saturn should play up the Satisfaction scores in their ads.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Ya, the body codes aren't really used for marketing. More of an internal or industry code.

    Saturn should play the customer service angle up big time with all new lineup this fall. I really hope the ION is well made also as quality is key also.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I was being sarcastic. I know that nearly every automaker has their own way of naming platforms. I wasnt being anti-GM. Relax. Deep Breath. I promise, no attempts at humour in the future.
    ~alpha
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    Since our Vue has been so good, we are hoping the Ion will be well made also. My sister is looking at one and we may also based on our Saturn experience this year. Our old Civic is looking pretty bad these days.

    Noticed some good deals on the s-series in the paper but they just aren't very spacious inside and the L series are a bit big for what we need.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    It's something about welcoming the new Generation of Saturn. Anyway the 2003 Vue, Ion, and L-Series are on the front. Personally I am starting to like this new Ion, it looks pretty good in the two pictures in this small brochure. I might just have to give the car a try when it debuts.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    Can one sign up for that brochure on the Saturn site?
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Yeah, I did. It's a little postcard-looking thing they send you about the ION. There is a picture of the car (right rear corner view), the dash, and the interior. It just talks about the features (interchangable roof panels, etc.) and stuff like that, kinda like a "teaser".
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    At this point the L series is pretty much a 'lame duck'. They should come out with a new replacement vehicle ASAP, with a real name on it, and outstanding features, to replace the forgettable car.

    I am eager to see road tests and drving impressions of the Ion and to see if it will sell.
  • machiavellimachiavelli Member Posts: 260
    The L series will be replaced by a Epsilon based "tall wagon" around model year 2005. I agree, they need it ASAP - 2 or 3 years is a LONG time in the auto industry. The L series is a lame duck.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Lame duck with some good deals I guess. The new Malibu will be out next year and the old L-series will likely be on fire sale. It's still a decent car and the refresh looks good IMO.
  • machiavellimachiavelli Member Posts: 260
    Yeah, I don't think the L-Series is necessarily a bad car, just sort of bland. Another thing that will hurt the L is that the ION will be almost as large as an L. I'm sure they'll be almost giving the L away by the time it's replacement hits the showrooms 2 years from now.
  • verozahlverozahl Member Posts: 574
    That ION postcard I received weeks ago was lame. Lame, though, should be the name of the L-Series replacement if they decide to put ION styling on it!
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    I think the Ion looks good.Judging from the base price of the Vue, Saturn wants to sell to some folks that don't have a lot cash. I applaud that move.I think the center mount pod is ok.If it brings down the cost of offering the car in other markets.To offer a car cheap assembly has to be efficient. As for to much plastic inside.If it enhances quality and durability it's fine.I want my money spent on engine, chassis, safety. As for that crazy steering wheel, when that big Suv is trying to shove it thru the airbag into me,it's looking better all the time.I am fine with ABS being an option.I love the cocept of the low content base vehicle. It saves people money. Also for folks that want to keep their cars a while The reliablity or lower repair cost of non power features can be a plus.As far a size, the car needs to be large enough to give you a chance in a crash.Crash worthiness is what got me looking at a Vue rather than an Aerio SX. I have always like small cars. With so many trucks on the road, maybe a little size is good.
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    It is hard to argue with the VW interiors. they get industry wide respect. However they are saving a good chunk of cash on their barely passable base engine.It has been around a little too long. I would rather have the modern engine and deal with the plastic.I do like surfaces that are easy to wipe clean. Car content also changes with market. The folks buying Suzuki Aerios in the states couldn't find models with abs on lots.However in Canada,I belive ABS is standard.It is also more important in that icy climate.I believe with Saturns no hagle policy, ordering your way is cool.
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    If you wan't maximum stuff in your car for the dollar, the car may be Hyndai.They are making good cars too. If you want a Saturn with the space frame, plastic panels, built in america, you are going to get a few less frills.If the basic car seems nice, and the price is right,I may end up in an Ion. Why center consoles in cheap cars, less profit margin = need for comprmise.When the American car is ok I sort of like the Idea of buying american.Bump, hey no dent cool.
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    I think power options should be optional. I don't like them myself. I think it would have been better if power features had stayed in more expensive cars. I belive that taking cost out of all components nessesary for power options , switches motors wire ect, compromize quality.I would rather wind down my window or reach and pull open my lock rather than hit a switch.I hear alot of stories regarding power option failures in cars of all price points.I just think some of this mess is a result inferior quality components helped by feature creap in cheap cars.I like to keep my cheap car as simple and reliable as possible.
  • gregoriusmgregoriusm Member Posts: 61
    Viewing the pics from thread 329, I must say I quite like the Sedan, interior AND exterior, and don't think that the styling is 5 to 8 years behind the times. I think it is right up-to-date.

    I think the center pod will be quite functional and it looks good.

    I don't even mind the steering wheel.

    The coupe looks great, except I don't care for that colour blue.

    I give Saturn at least a B+ on this one, before driving the car.

    IMHO. ... Greg ('94 Blue/Green Sedan with all the trimmings except sun roof and leather, both of which I don't like)
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    power windows and locks ought to be standard on all but the cheapest of cars.

    that image of the Ion is just......not nice.
  • magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    Yeah. If I were eating oatmeal, I'd probably regurgitate it. The car does not wear the tall architecture well. The rear has an outward-fanning bumper that is just hideous, it looks like a Dodge Neon crossed with a Nissan Altima. The worst part, however, is the squared off rear door and the "Isuzu Impulse" alloy wheels.
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    It seems the Ion layout is a good one considering height and width. The added height is good. It is good not to be too high though. The very tall car wants to roll over more.Especially if it is light weight.So the increase in width plus being taller is kind of a sweet spot. It seems that the Ion will come with ABS brakes standard. Since I would order them anyway, that's cool.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    Focus is a tall car and has superior road dynamics. Its the engineering that goes into it.

    I really want Ion to sell well but I am so disappointed in the styling and interior it makes me want to cry.

    Maybe I will need to grab a kleenex from the kleenex box in the center of the Ion steering wheel...........

    LOL!
  • magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    This is not the car that will bring Saturn back to the mainstream. the first SL was actually attractive, and had a very solid road feel to it.
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    I heard there may be three trim levels.The only problem I may have are A/C and seat height adjustment. The lowest price car may have A/C optional.I am trying to think of an area in the states where you don't need A/C. I think A/C is way more important ABS. If your sweat too hard and can,t see where you are going who cares about stopping. My other issue is seat height adjustment. it seems very cold indeed to make somebody pay more money just to see out of the dam car. That is one reason I never shopped the cavalier, it was like trying to see out of a tunnel.I know that with the new design I am sure I would be okay but it is almost like saying if you pay a little more we will give you a better rear view mirror. I hope saturn does well if they sell alot they may need to kill one of the trim lines. Then again, I changed my mind, I don't really like short people.
  • verozahlverozahl Member Posts: 574
    I'm starting to see more 2003 L-Series on the road... little brother ION wants to be just like big brother L-Series, eh?
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    Saw the L series reskin for first time on the lots today (had seen it at auto shows). I actually did not blow chunks. I will not say its attractive, but viewing it from higher up you don't see quite as much of the freakiness as you do on the pedestal at the shows. Saturn should have redid the fenders and doors and gotten rid of the dull character line and replaced it with something more in character with the new front end then.

    Oh well, typical GM half-@$$ing it again.

    Saw a 9995 Saturn L....good buy I guess, except still shy on HP. Gotta be a small person too to drive one of those.

    Lets hope the Ion interior is larger and taller, much like the Focus.
  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    I can't stand it when a car company decides to "update" a car by slapping on a nose or tail-lights, etc. that look like they belong on an entirely different car. The new clip on the L belongs on a car with crisp edges (if it belongs on any 2003 car), not on a rounded car like the L. Also, the tail-light change looks boring now, with that dumb chrome trim that's all the rage now.

    I guess it doesn't matter what I think if these cars sell. I just don't understand with all the talented designers available how they come up with this stuff.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    I agree with your thoughts. I thought one of the supposed benefits of plastic panels was 'drop of the hat' styling changes. So why not change the fenders and doors then? See this is where Saturn botched it not making the rear quarters plastic too. I bet its the rear unibody that keeps them from re-doing the doors and front fenders.

    The L is not the only 'new front and rear clips' offender.

    Go check pics out of the 2003 Cadaver and Sunfire. YIKES!

    As far as design gaffes, I can relate this to you. I am an architect (well need to finish exams first) but I can tell you first hand that design is one part of the equation. You can have all the talent design wise....but the process of design and manufacture is another. You need to have project managers and business managers all buy into the design and protect it all the way from concept through to the finish. Our American business way of life with executives and other decision makers over time strip the content and beauty of the design out of the car. Decisions occur along the way that sucks all the life out of a car design. This is because designers are never given the authority to parent their designs from start to finish. They never get 'final say'. Why do you think Lutz was brought in to GM? To help parent the designs through the process from start to finish!

    The engineers can take credit too for wanting to make the car less of a challenge to execute; they may compromise looks in return for easier to engineer and other reasons. Then there are the bean counters and also managers rushing the process and things get sacrificed there. Can't underestimate the effect many pointy haired bosses have on turning a beautiful concept into useless drivel.

    I think this is why the US will never have the best cars anymore. Our business culture is set up to rever everything but design. Its always about something else like money or placating union workers, or making it dumbed down to build. In the US, its never ultimately about design. There's so many agendas that get placed in there otherwise.

    The final thing is the true belief by typical auto executives that they just sell what's good enough. No American car company has ever set out (at least in the last 20 years) to make the best all out no excuses car in any category of the market. Or the best designs because they truly feel they are above competition and whatever they puke out will be 'good enough'. If it isn't, then people are just 'too picky'.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    US based companies make many very good cars. Corvette and CTS come to mind as excellent examples of cars that are arguably near or at the top of of the heap in their respective class. You are always negative on everything and anything made here. Good thing you don't work for one of the big 2/3. Your give up attitude sure wouldn't help.
  • alternatoralternator Member Posts: 629
    your profile says your dream car is a Corvette! What am I missing here?
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    Though I somewhat agree (and totally agree the 2003 Antique Cavalier/Sunfire are an embarrasment), I think there is a News & Views forum for baiting like that.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    Will Saturn's other vehicles be getting centre mounted gauges and a "bumper car" style steering wheel?
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    right now I am thinking a G35 coupe or 350Z might be the way to go.


    The 50th anniversary Vette is nice, but so is an M3 or Z8.


    Never would I plunk down 45k on a Cadillac.


    Give up attitude? No its a REALITY attitude. Go wave the flag all you want. American cars are good overall but why can't people admit the best in class sedans and coupes in virtually all are from 'import nameplates'.


    I guess it don't matter anymore. All car companies are global anyways. Flag waving is pointless these days in the auto industry, unless you are way deep into nostalgia.


    http://www.boston.com/cars/automobilia/


    Back to Saturn. We have any better pictures of the Ion out there yet?

  • verozahlverozahl Member Posts: 574
    If you haven't figured it out yet, the ION will have the same 'quality' materials in the interior as does the VUE. eewwwwww.
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    look at Ion sedan pic and compare the rear end and then the front end to the future BMW car view. What do you thin?

    http://www.urbanracer.com/features/nyias02_2_article.html
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Being from Canada, I am hardly flag waving. All car companies are foreign here and almost all have manufacturing plants here. Fact is American companies can compete and I would hate to be the firm that has an employee with an I can't compete/ I can't be as good attitude. It's a sad thing to see.

    I can't believe the G35 is your dream car. You like that and think the ION is strange? What a joke.
  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    RegFootball HAS the right attitude. He wants to do better. I WOULD want him to work for my company (if I had one). He's explaining that it's the management that doesn't want to do better and I agree with him.
Sign In or Register to comment.