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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • If you look at his posting history, concerning DC vans, all Macakava does is flame. We are all lost, and those that buy Ody's have "seen the light."
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    ...for the Easter Bunny. The article "Warranty
    As A Weapon" says that the extended warranty is a statement by the seller that their products are free from defects and will remain so for the specified period of warranty. The perception is that the longer the warranty... the better quality of whatever you are buying is. This goes for cars as well as furniture or appliances.So, using this logic the Kia Sedona would be of the best quality and reliability...and the Honda Ody the worst.
  • "So, using this logic the Kia Sedona would be of the best quality and reliability...and the Honda Ody the worst."

    Exactly. I don't know who wrote that article, but the fact is, products with quality problems often offer an EW to persuade prospective buyers to "take a chance." Having a longer warranty means the opposite of having better quality. A number of people have posted on these boards that BECAUSE of Honda/Toyota's rep for quality they will NOT bother with an EW because they think they won't need it. If enough people feel that way, Honda/Toyota has no real financial incentive to increase the length of basic warranties or push EWs. The swwet spot is to buy a brand when it has just reached a high-quality level but still offers a very good warranty because of past problems. Best of both worlds.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,313
    Then the sweet spot must be a Korean car (perhaps not the Kia though, even though Hyundai owns a majority share in Kia?):

    Hyundai ties Honda in quality survey (CNN Money)

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    "So, using this logic the Kia Sedona would be of the best quality and reliability...and the Honda Ody the worst."

    Only fools will rush in to buy based on that where angels fear to tread...

    Advertisers recognise that consumers are very gullible.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    Denver,

    You hit it right on the head!

    You are thinking like the smart, savvy business folks at Honda/Toyota!
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    Even though that may be true, Hyundai/Kia does not have the sophisticated/refined handling and fun to drive of a Honda or even a Toyota.

    It would be much easier for a Hyundai owner with the financial means to trade up to a Honda/Toyota than a Honda/Toyota owner to accept trading down.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,313
    Heh, know all the car spy photos where the cars are camouflaged with plastic and duck tape? I think we need a Coke/Pepsi test where a panel of folks test drives a few minivans that are sufficiently cloaked inside and out to make them basically indistinguishable, and then see how they rate.

    Without badging, many minivans are indistinguishable on the outside as it is now.

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    "if customers are not confident in the quality/reliability of a product, they will resist buying it unless there are attractive differintials like price and longer warranty"

    I guess this individual is saying he doesn't have a lot of confidence in the reliability of Honda Odys and Toyota Siennas. From what I have read in the Prices Paid and Buying Experience Boards .... there is a large percentage of Ody and Sienna buyers that purchase the extended warranty.I see a few now and then that say they don't think they need the extended warranty. But, the vast majority are into the extended warranty big time.More so with people who buy the Honda Ody than the Toyota Sienna.So, I guess all these people don't have confidence in the reliability of these vans they are buying?
    I think a lot of people would be afraid to take that test Steve. Their world would collapse if they rated the "unrefined" Kia Sedona or DC van higher than what they are presently driving.
    It use to be people laughed at the quality of Japanese made cars.Just like they use to laugh at Hyundai/Kia.They won't be laughing much longer...not at all if they're informed and keep an open mind about such matters.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    Just with one test drive (blindfolded, if realistically possible) to evaluate the handling characteristics, the engine power and accompanying refined engine sound, I can easily the leader from the wannabees.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    It took Toyota and Honda at least 30 - 40 years from the '50s & '60s to get where they became the quality leaders from 10 years ago.

    The Koreans have quite some ways to reach that inflexion point. But then, Toyota and Honda are not sleeping. They raise the bar up further so the wannabees maintain their present status. Just observe...
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I'd also like to see something like that too. Blindfold people and set them in the passenger's seat and let them listen to the radio, wind, road and engine noise, rattles and feel the ride and seat comfort and see how many would pick the Honda and Toyota compaired to the Dodge/Chrysler and others. I think people would be quite surprised.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Actually Toyota is the quality leader.According to post #318 Honda is tied with Hyundai.So, it looks like the "wannabes" from Hyundai have already reached that "inflexion" point...in what...12 years. Some people must be taking that blindfolded test and forgetting to take off the blindfold when the test is over.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    It may be so but there are big differences - Hondas are fun to drive with sporty handling and a great driving engagement that are difficult to match by Hyundai.

    Hyundai and Kia are disguised Buicks 25 years ago! Just check out the XG350 and the Amanti! Arggghhh!!
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    I know what you mean.

    Just came back from another recent business trip in Chicago.

    Had another rental T & C Entended version with Stow & Go seats. It was new with 205 miles with no license plate yet! This is my 50+ minivan rental(mostly DGC and T & C) in 18+ months.

    It is absolutely no comparison with the Ody or the Sienna!
  • "Hyundai and Kia are disguised Buicks 25 years ago! Just check out the XG350 and the Amanti! Arggghhh!!"

    Do us all a favor and stop posting crap like this, please. Instead of wasting our time, go to your nearest Hyundai dealer. Ride in an accent and you will not change your mind about Hyundai, but then test drive an Elantra, Sonata, or the XG350 that you think so little of. I love my Honda Accord, but the Elantra is a steal at it's price. And the Korean manufacturers have come a long way since the Excel debacle. They offer a competent machine trimmed out with some nice goodies for the price. And the 6 year/60K bumper-to-bumper may be because they are trying to lure people back, but you know what...who cares? Look into the Hyundai boards, especially the popular Elantra and Sonata and you won't see many problems at all. Certainly no more than I see in the Accord boards, which you consider as so much superior. One of the few last things keeping the majority of people from buying Korean cars is the perceived stigma of owning what others consider an inferior vehicle. Just like everything else, image is a large part of it. At least all those people driving VW's ought to be trading in for a Sonata. With the realm of problems they are having in exchange for initial quality, why not trade up to a car that won JD Powers and Assoc. award for initial quality that also comes with a 6 year bumper-to-bumper warranty?

    BTW, at the prices Hyundai/Kia sell their cars for....they don't have to match Honda. But they are worth the money for a lot of people's needs.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Cannot get the simple luxury of separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger in anything less than the Sienna XLE with MSRP $30,100 BUT then in Denver Region there is mandatory Option A that makes the MSRP $32,165.
    However, the Caravan SXT has the separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger at MSRP $23,705 and the SWB T&C has the feature for MSRP $21,600.
    The lowest priced Odyssey with the feature is the EX at MSRP $ 28,510.
  • lumbarlumbar Posts: 421
    A valid point because of Toyota's rigidity in packages but a comparison also depends on what you're looking for and how you stack the deck. I'd rather have VSC any day than separate temperature controls. I can get that with a Sienna LE and reasonable option package (e.g., # 5), but can't get it at all on a DC van at any price.
  • craigmricraigmri Posts: 243
    Macakava,

    You stated:

    "Hyundai and Kia are disguised Buicks 25 years ago! Just check out the XG350 and the Amanti! Arggghhh!!"

    Have you driven either car? I have and even though I'm too young for conservative type "near luxury" cars I still marveled at the quality and refinement. It really doesnt matter if Hondas are better. They are still great cars!

    As for the Minivan currently offered by Kia, not many people suggest its "as good" as the leading Japanese brands. Doesnt matter to me cause the Sedona we bought has all the bells and whistles and is a joy to drive. You really aught to try one.

    Craig
    '04 Sedona EX
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    Carrots are great for your health!
    Eat some more!

    Trade in your Honda for a Sonata and switch to their forum as well.

    Maybe you do not have the guts to switch to an inferior performing vehicle vs the Accord. May be you do not want to trade down for the image reasons that you so described. QUality may a given in this case, but "fun to drive, superior handling" is quite another.

    Even after test driving these same Korean vehicles, I believe the test reports of C & D, R & T that Hondas are superior performing cars.

    The Civic and Accord are more superior handling, fun to drive vehicles than Elantra and Sonata! Similar Ody vs Sedona!!
  • dulnevdulnev Posts: 652
    I had a new XG350 as a rental car recently and it was the most horrible and scary ride I've ever taken! Yes, it looks great and all those high-end features are enticing, BUT I was literally scared driving this car at highway speeds. I'm used to surgical precision of my Acura and this car was very hard to control in comparison.

    I wouldn't generalize to all Hyundai and Kia cars, but if they can't make their best car well, what does it tell about the resto of the line-up???
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    Dulnev,

    Like you and I know, there is absolutely no comparison between Acura/Honda and Hyundai. It is like comparing an apple to an orange.

    Equal quality comparison claim is one thing, but "surgical" handling and fun to drive in Honda/Acura cars like yours is another feature that is priceless. And if it comes with high quality too boot, that combo is unbeatable!
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    I did try a Sedona for curiousity before I bought the Ody. There is no comparo - the Ody is superior as I enjoy a car that is fun to drive, agile, engaging with great handling and fast for its class.

    In fact just a few days ago, a guy in a Sedona was trying to hustle me in my Ody. We were on a city street in which I was doing 50 in a 45mph zone. When we were exiting on an off-ramp to the I-40, I floored the Ody and it easily exited the curving ramp at 60mph with no fuss; the Sedona could not keep up with the speed and the cornering(as it leans like a beached whale) as I could see him disappearing in my rear view mirror. The Ody easily reached 90 - 100mph with ease before I coasted to exit at the next ramp one mile away for my next shopping errand. Needless to say, the Sedona was no where in sight then.

    This athletic, agile quality with fun to drive factor and great Honda quality cannot be beaten.
  • lumbarlumbar Posts: 421
    "This athletic, agile quality with fun to drive factor and great Honda quality cannot be beaten."

    Is this forum about minivans or sports coupes? While the Ody may have some virtues *relative* to other minivans, it's still a minivan. Minivans are very underrated vehicles in terms of their versatility, but it's really gilding the lily to see any minivan as athletic and/or agile--as well as doing a disservice to vehicles that actually are so. I really am not out to knock the Ody, but sometimes the hyberbole needs to be reigned in a bit.

    While I'm aware the new Ody has received some accolades for it's handling, I'd submit that the *operative* differences in handling among same generation minivans--the extent to which one can or should sensibly execute any particular maneuver while driving--are within a relatively small range, particularly among the major contenders.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    If you only use the minivan for basic transportation like I believe you do, then any minivan like a Sedona or DGC will do.

    But if you want an engaging driving experience like some of us do while driving, then the final selection becomes more critical. Among the available minivans, only a few (1 or 2)would cut it.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,313
    No comparison? It is like comparing an apple to an orange

    Well, apples and oranges are both fruit, are both round, have seeds, a peel, grow on trees. Lots of similarities.

    Some folks may prefer to pay less for a Granny Smith and let other splurge on the organic Blood Oranges.

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    Talking about blood oranges, I bought a 2 lb bag on special this weekend for 99 cents to try them.

    Boy, did it (cross section) look gross compared to regular oranges. But the taste was passable!

    Great analogy!
  • craigmricraigmri Posts: 243
    Mac Stated:

    "In fact just a few days ago, a guy in a Sedona was trying to hustle me in my Ody. We were on a city street in which I was doing 50 in a 45mph zone. When we were exiting on an off-ramp to the I-40, I floored the Ody and it easily exited the curving ramp at 60mph with no fuss; the Sedona could not keep up with the speed and the cornering(as it leans like a beached whale) as I could see him disappearing in my rear view mirror. The Ody easily reached 90 - 100mph with ease before I coasted to exit at the next ramp one mile away for my next shopping errand. Needless to say, the Sedona was no where in sight then. "

    Are you like 15 years old?

    Craig
    '04 Sedona EX
  • i think the sedona driver must be 15 or less, in south florida where i live, in the past 10 days they have lost 14 people, 6 in a two car speeding accident, 4 were teens, another accident took the lives of 4, speed related, and they just found 4 in alligator alley, in the swamp, looks like speed related, there were probably more, but the high fatality ones seems to make tv and newspapers
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,313
    Let's stick to comparing apples and carrots eh?

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

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