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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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  • rob133rob133 Posts: 24
    Be aware that the 1997-2001 Toyotas have been having problems with engines crapping out becuase of some design change to make the cars pass smog tests, the engines are made to run hotter I guess. So far at least 3000 engines have died and customers are up in arms. It is unclear if the problem was fixed for 2002.


    here is the article that describes the engine problem better than I can.


    http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38302

  • tccmn1tccmn1 Posts: 278
    I have been looking at the Mazda MPV; now, with the new 200HP V6 in 2002. It is much improved on power and has a nice dashboard layout as well as the "Honda" type fold under rear seat. You can get into one of these fairly loaded for the mid $20's in the Twin City area. Includes heated mirrors, fog lights, pwr. everything (seat too), ac, alloy 16" wheels, 6 CD changer w/cassett too!
    Not a bad rig for it's size and features.
    I currently drive a 95 3.3 DC which I bought new and has 152K miles on it. I change my oil every 3K miles and DID have the infamous tranny replaced by Chrysler at 98K miles UNDER WARRANTY.
    I've towed a 2000lb sailboat with it and have the towing package. The MPV/with towing, can do 3Klbs.
  • hawk27hawk27 Posts: 5
    My family is ecstatic with our 2001 Silhouette. We've owned it for more than a year (15k miles/24k KM) and have taken it on several long trips. But this is mostly an around-town kid hauler, and it has survived the abuse with flying colors. I've owned Hondas and Toyotas before, so I was skeptical about GM. But we tested everything and liked the Silhouette the best. Fit and finish was comparable, handling excellent and there's plenty of power. Brother-in-law bought an Odyssey at the same time, and we were down to the wire with the decision. His Honda is wider, but is noisier inside. Also, it's been in the shop twice with problems, including the sliding door. I would highly recommend the GM vans, and take a real-world view of the crash test results.
  • goatmealgoatmeal Posts: 11
    A good way for your friend not to lock himself out of his truck is to carry a spare door key in his wallet. I have done this for many years and occaisionaly it has paid off.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,884
    My buddy has been known to toss his wallet on the dash and then lock himself out too! I have a "hide a key" thingy under the bumper myself :-)

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  • hoyahenryhoyahenry Posts: 399
    Consumers purchase the Sedona because they drive it, evaluate it, compare and contrast it, perform a cost/benefit analysis, and come to the conclusion that it's everything they need. If they also conclude that an Odyssey meets their needs and wants criteria following the same process, then they have to evaluate the fact that the Sedona costs 20-30% less than the Odyssey. One consumer put the price delta at $15K!

    Nobody "buys it because of the cheap price." - NO ONE. Price is just one of the decision factors - and yes, it's quite an overwhelming one. (I doubt if an endorsement from a young golf pro could mitigate this issue.) Price and other Sedona differentiators, like a better cockpit design or the ability to tow without voiding the warranty, provide ample opportunity for the consumer to weigh certain priorities and preference factors.
  • javadocjavadoc Posts: 1,167
    You are incorrect Ody1... get your facts straight. The Odyssey does not have the most space. The Chrysler T&C has more, 186cft vs the Ody's 146cft. Hmmmmm, interesting isn't it? The Ody also has less front and rear shoulder room than the DC van, less rear hip room, is narrower, shorter and has a shorter wheelbase. It also has a lower towing capacity, which is important to some consumers. Consumers are who buy these vehicles, not automotive editors. It has the most power, but not until 5500rpm, and the redline of the engine is 6000rpm. Hardly a useable amount of power.

    I keep hearing the same words and nothing new, can you say something different please? If you would take your blinders off for just one second Ody1, you'd notice that the CONSUMERS rate the Odyssey as a 9.0. The MPV is CONSUMER RATED a 9.7 and the VW Eurovan is rated a 9.9. So, you must think that the consumers are ignorant since they rate the Ody lower?

    Also, get your facts straight regarding TMV... According to edmunds: "The Edmunds.com True Market Value® (TMV®) price is our estimate of the current average national selling price for this vehicle. It is what you need to know to negotiate a fair price."
  • hoyahenryhoyahenry Posts: 399
    Ody01 posts are designed to fit in the discussion space available located on the consumer opinion page of the vehicle description, which lists the first three lines of the two most recent posts....
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,884
    Interesting theory, but I haven't seen an example yet. Can you point me to a specific model where it's happening? Thanks!

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  • javadocjavadoc Posts: 1,167
    I do believe you're onto something there hoya!

    /j
  • Well, I can't beleive somebody didn't nail you on your semantic games earlier, but here goes:

    The Chrylser Town and Country only has 168 cu.ft. of cargo capaciy . Not "186cft". The Odyssey only have 146 cu. ft. of cargo capacity because the folding seat cannot be removed, so its volume is subtracted. Your selective and biased post is just dishonerable. Its also a prime example of selective journalism. You fail to even mention ANY of the other statistics supporting Ody01's claims. The luggage capacity on the Ody is 38.1cft, and only 17.8 on the T&C. That's over twice as much. Passenger volume on the Ody is 170.7 cft. and only 164.9 on the T&C. The T&C only has 9% more towing capacity.
    Your attempts to grasp for positive interior dimentions are quite comical, as you have left out ALL the instances in which the Odyssey beats the town and country on interior dimentions and there are quite a few. Also, the instances in which the T&C beat the Ody were by fractions of an inch and there are several instances where the Ody beats the T&C quite handily. Let me list all of the instances that you left out (which would be every single other dimension that edmunds gives):
    Front Head Room: 41.2 in.
    Front Hip Room: 57.8 in
    Rear Head Room: 40 in.
    Front Leg Room: 41 in
    Rear Leg Room: 40 in.
    Now, subtracting the differences between the dimensions of the T&C and the Ody, that makes the Ody the winner by several inches.
    As for consumer ratings, although I'm not quite sure where you got your numbers from(you should cite your sources),theres an element of self justification in all ratings given by consumers and therefore I would be highly skeptical of consumer surveys, especially non-scientific ones.
    (All information was taken from Carpoint of Edmunds)
  • javadocjavadoc Posts: 1,167
    First, I valued your well thought out post in response to me, thanks. Semantic games though and my post dishonerable? That hurts, lol. ;-)


    Regarding the DC's total cubes, my bad, I transposed the number on accident. It was not intentional, so I stand corrected, thank you. To be sure that you don't think I just conjured the figures up, the numbers were pulled from http:/www.autotrader.com. If you would like the exact url, just say so and I'll happily provide it for you. The rear cargo room in a T&C is rated at 20.0cubes according to the source I cited, although I've seen the figure you cited as well.


    As for consumer ratings in TownHall, I got them right here on edmunds. You are correct, there is a level of cognitive reasurance displayed when folks post a review. OTOH, don't fool yourself into thinking that automotive press is objective either. Gosh, who is? I know I am not.


    I wouldn't be skeptical of consumer surveys, personally. Where do you think companies get their information for what to produce? They don't sit in a dimly-lit, smokey, cherry panelled room and decide that Joe Consumer will want to buy whatever they come up with (yes, I'm dramatizing). Okay, maybe Pontiac does this, but companies use consumer surveys to figure out what the consumer wants and doing away with what the consumer doesn't want.


    However, you missed the point of my post entirely I am afraid. I was writing exactly what Ody01 writes, only posting the facts that were advantageous to my goal. I was also pointing out his error, just as you kindly did for me.


    Now, read Ody01's post... "Other minivans may be good if owner never takes long trips, has no family or never wants to haul large, bulky items. " What?!? I have a family, carried them over 3,000 miles in 4 days over roads you don't even want to know about in a Non-Odyssey, and we all thought it was a wonderful vehicle to take on a long trip. I did not say that the Odyssey (or any other vehicle) would not have been a good vehicle for this.

  • Ok, your absolutely right. I did miss the entire point of your post if it was supposed to be a sarcastic rebuttal to Ody01's tactics and previous posts. As for the dishonerable and semantic games comments, the exact same thing can be said about Ody01 so I won't hold you responsible if the post was intended as you say.
    Edmunds ratings are probably the least scientific as there is no accountability for the posters. I would seriously doubt the results of anything posted on the Edmunds consumer ratings. I noticed glowing reviews from people selected 5 stars because they either didn't know how to select a rating or didn't know they had to. Personally, I have no trust whatsoever for unscientific polls because the base of people is so narrow. As an example, up until recently most online large scale political polls ended up with the republican issue winning because there was a vastly larger amount of republicans who could afford computers vs the democrats who could afford computers. Basically, the edmunds consumer rating holds no water to me and I don't think it should serve as anything more than anecdotal evidence.

    I'm also new this discussion so excuse me if I misinterpret the direction of certain statements.

    Then again, the Sedona only got 8.4 to the Ody's 9.0 :)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,884
    I only took one long trip in my "little" Quest minivan. Ten months, 32,000 miles.

    Did you guys hear about me hauling my side-by-side frig inside it with the hatch closed? And then there were those three sheets of 4x12' drywall. Couldn't quite shut the hatch that time :-)

    No family though, unless you count spouse and cats. ynmv (your needs may vary).

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  • javadocjavadoc Posts: 1,167
    csv, no worries... it's all good! But my post was satirical in nature. Oh, I have to share a bumper sticker I saw today that fits this line of thought... "Save time, see it my way." ;-)

    And my under-achiever will be hauling 800lbs of laminate flooring home when the stuff comes in. Thx to my wife for needing a "special order" woodgrain, huh? Good thing it will hold the miter saw and air tools I'm buying too, heheheh.

    /javadoc
  • mendez1mendez1 Posts: 4
    69000 miles and must say I like the car. From the exception of a right hub, ignition switch and an air bag signal (warrantied repairs), all I have had to pay is for maintanence repairs (brakes, antifreeze change, belts etc.) I Like the ride and comfort. Took the van on several long trips (from New York to Florida, TWICE) and it perfomed great. My wife and I are considering to trade this one in for the newer model. Hope this helps with your final decision and good luck.
  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    I owned a 96 Grand Caravan, drive a 99 Odyssey, and have rented several Standard length DC's and 1 Windstar. The Windstar had 7 miles on it when I drove it off the rental lot. Each van has its own advantages and disadvantages. If you want the maximum in creature comforts and good tight handling more like a sports car, buy a DC product. If you want the most room for a tall driver get the Windstar. Unfortunately it has the sloppiest handling of the three. If you want handling and a ride that is more like a smooth riding car, get the Odyssey. Compared to the DC vans the Odyssey is a little boring. I have had no problems with my Odyssey in 55 K miles.
    I have never driven the MPV, or Quest, Sienna or Sedona.
    Anyone interested in buying a minivan should first decide on the
    size. If one can live with the shorter versions, there are more selections. I would recommend that potential buyer test drive any vans that seem to meet the requirements. Do not expect to find an Odyssey to test drive.
    One last piece of advice. If you only looked at the problems sections at Edmund's you would never drive anything. There are dissatisfied customers for every van out there.
  • pluto5pluto5 Posts: 618
    I agree; after driving several vans I decided I don't want another; large four door sedan is more practical, safer, and more reliable. Also costs less! When your kids get older they don't want to drive minivans, anyway.
  • hoyahenryhoyahenry Posts: 399
    If you want handling and a ride that is more like a smooth riding car, get the Odyssey.

    I agree with many of your points, or appreciate that that is your honest opinion and experience. I've driven the various DC vans on and off for the last 15 years, and took the 2002 Ody for a test drive. Then, I drove a Sedona. I found that the Sedona delivered a much more car like feel and ride. Among other things, it offers the 5-speed transmission like the 2002 Ody at an exceptional price and a nice long warranty. When contemplating a new van, I think the Sedona is more than worthy of due consideration.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    Minivans aren't trendy. People don't buy them solely for commuting. In many cases, they're full of kids, or hauling many passengers. That's why people buy them in the first place. As for fuel economy, even the Sedona does better than SUVs of similar weight.

    If you're sincerely concerned about gas mileage and oil consumption, why don't you move over to the SUV forums? I see plenty of monster SUVs with 12/16 mpg ratings carrying only a driver on a commute each day. More than half don't have towing gear. I'm sure they'd love to hear your opinions. Your comments on Sedona's gas mileage are very tiring, much as Carleton1's were.

    Cheers.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,884
    Mitsubishi to release high-end minivan worldwide in 2004

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  • dawn22dawn22 Posts: 2
    I'm looking to trade in my 1995, 125,000 mile Dodge Caravan SE V6 for a 2002 4 cyl 2.4 model. Can anyone tell me why I should or shouldn't go to the smaller engine? I'm looking for a reliable "kid carpooling" vehicle and I like the security of the "7 yr/100,000 mile" warranty. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
  • ody01ody01 Posts: 100
    4 cyl engine too small for minivan. Odyssey, Sedona, GM, Windstar, etc. all have V6 engine. Many Caravan owner happier with largest 3.8L V6 engine. Have you considered Sedona with 10 year/100,000 mile warranty?
  • m1tommym1tommy Posts: 29
    Hello group, A nearby dealer has a 2000 model Mazda ES, with about every bell and whistle available. The van has 6,300 miles. I wrote it off as a completely obnoxious electric blue, but my wife, who will spend 90%+ of the time behind its wheel, really liked it.

    Long story short, we pulled up to the Mazda dealership to watch it drive off, sold. Oh well, we drove another '02 MPV LX and liked it, albeit more expensive. On our return, we learned that the family who bought the loaner ES had some sort of falling out on the way home and returned it!

    Are there any "GOTCHAS" in buying a loaner? The factory warranty is still in effect for some time (say 43k miles and 2 1/2 years... time from when the dealer "bought" it). The sticker price is right at the Edmund's "Certified Used Vehicle", of $19.5k, and indicated a willingness "to deal". We certainly don't NEED all the bells and whistles, but the price is lower than a new MPV with less stuff. I am thinking that perhaps extended warranty might be in the "dealings", as we usually keep vehicles long term.

    Advice or opinions are appreciated. We'll likely look it over again tomorrow.

    Tommy
  • ody01ody01 Posts: 100
    2002 MPV Engine more power, probably better gas mileage. Many options = more chance something break.
  • kkollwitzkkollwitz Posts: 268
    "we usually keep vehicles long term."
    Then I'd buy a new car if I could afford it.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "Have you considered Sedona with 10 year/100,000 mile warranty?"

    Did someone steal your password?
  • m1tommym1tommy Posts: 29
    Your points bear thought. With the warranty, the vehicle is nearly "as new". The older engine design will be scrutenized during a drive tomorrow.

    Thanks for the replies.
    Tommy
  • dawn22dawn22 Posts: 2
    I've narrowed my purchase choice to 2 models of minivans. WHAT'S YOUR OPINION?
    I don't need hauling power, just sound "kid-pooling" transportation. I can buy a Dodge Caravan, 3.0/6 cyl with 20,000 miles for $14,500 that has 1 yr/36,000 warranty left
    OR a new 2001 Chrysler Voyager eC with 36 miles, 2.4/4 cyl and a 100,000 mile/7 year transmission/engine warranty for $14,300.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,884
    I drove a 4 cylinder '89 base Voyager for ten years. It was ok although I guess I really do prefer the pickup of the 6 in my current van. But I used that 7/70 warranty Chrysler offered in '89 a lot, and the 5/60 warranty was a big factor in picking my current van.

    I vote for the 4; my better half says go with the 6. lol, not much help here, but good luck picking!

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