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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    maybe DC can make the front airbags optional and lower the price by $1k more!
    damn government!
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    "ALMOST every performance vehicle is Rear Wheel Drive ..."

    Yes I agree for ideal DRY ROAD CONDITIONS.

    For ICE AND SNOW, FWD is better than RWD for traction.

    With the added engine weight over the front tires and the PULL action vs PUSH, FWD is better for traction in ICE AND SNOW anyday. Try pushing(with RWD) on ice and snow and your BACKSIDE would slide in all different directions.

    Many years ago, I have had so much fun with my little FWD Civic running circles around Mustang GT, Camaros IROC Z, BMWs, etc in ice and snow that I look forward to blizzards to repeat that exercise. Just love watching the drivers' faces then.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Had one(the only one) a few weeks ago as a rental.

    It drives just like the cars of 40+yrs ago from which it is based.

    What a POS!! Compared to even the DGC - I can say that for the DGC now.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    maybe DC can make the front airbags optional and lower the price by $1k more!
    damn government!


    I think it was a smart move on Chrysler's part making them optional. For those who feel side airbags are important, they can buy one with them on it. For those that don't, Chrysler gets a price advantage on Honda.

    The trick is to make a reliable van and do all you can to get it into as many hands as possible. Especially with a whole new model coming out in a couple of years. If people are happy with the one they have, they'll buy the new model. It's building customer loyality. Plus the others that will buy because it is a new model, having features that other vans might not have.

    Make fun of Chrysler for doing it, but I think it's a very smart move.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    I won't be suprised if DC make vsc optional in their top line models soon, and they should.
  • strstr Member Posts: 64
    I want to buy a 2005 Sienna XLE but I am wondering when the best time to do it is. I mean when will they start to really push the good deals to clear the 05's out? If the 06's are coming in September won't next month be the best month to start hitting the salesmen up for deals? Or should I wait until the 05 clearance sales? When are they anyway?
    One salesman quoted 32,931 for an XLE with leather, sun roof (package #4) arctic frost pearl paint, rear spoiler, extra mile A and night vision mirror, I can't remember what else it has but the MSRP was 36, 950. What do you think about this price? Do you think they will come down lower than this as the 06's come in?
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Don't wait too long or you will not get the color and options you want. Arctic Frost Pearl is one of THE MOST Attractive colors I have ever seen. ;)
  • jc9799jc9799 Member Posts: 70
    Hey str, I'll agree with the previous post. Clearance are risky, the longer you wait, probably the better price you'll get, but for sure, your selection will diminish.
    I didn't check upper end Sienna prices when we bought our MPV, but just off the top of my head, $4K under MSRP on a Sienna seems like a pretty good deal.

    On a related note: Just found out that some friends from college just bought a Sienna. We beat them to the minivan stage by 1 month. Seems like just yesterday that Jim and I were skipping Engineering Classes together. (one reason I didn't become an Engineer. :P Didn't stop him though.) Shoot, our wives have been friends since high school. Now, we both have 2 kids, a dog, and a house in the suburbs of large NW cities. And the vehicle we traded in for our minivans, were SUVs (Exploder and Cherokee)
    Guess we're just getting old. :(
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    "Guess we're just getting old."

    No you are getting very practical, informed and sensible.

    HECK with 2 kids, manhood issues are no longer in question! Your now sure of yourself!

    Enjoy your MV like I do.
  • jc9799jc9799 Member Posts: 70
    HECK with 2 kids, manhood issues are no longer in question!

    Shoot, with a 5 and 3 year old I don't have time think about manhood issues, I'm just trying to keep up with them!

    BTW, I do enjoy driving the MPV (surprisingly). However, with my wife out of town this week, and the kids with my MIL, I've been driving my wife's Passat. Let's just say I enjoy driving that a whole lot more. I know that's shocking. ;)
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    "BTW, I do enjoy driving the MPV (surprisingly). However, with my wife out of town this week, and the kids with my MIL, I've been driving my wife's Passat. Let's just say I enjoy driving that a whole lot more. I know that's shocking."

    Your now on the prowl at 2.15AM with the wife out of town and kids at MIL!!
    Be careful of being caught doing suspicious actitivities in the streets by TV COPS on camera! :)
  • caravan2caravan2 Member Posts: 198
    Hi,

    Does anyone know what's new in 2006 T&C touring or GC SXT? I heard they're adding stability control in 2006?

    Thanks,
  • strstr Member Posts: 64
    Well,
    I don't know how old you are but I'm trading in my 2002 Envoy SLT for a Sienna and I'm only 29, crazy huh? Anyway, I just found an XLE package #4, leather, extra miles package A, arctic frost pearl paint, oak interior, 2004 model, 16,732 miles like new condition listed for 26,732 I said no way, offered 24,200 and they will take it. Should I go for this price? I'm tired of messing around with trying to find the greatest deal, I've been at this for two months now. It sounded reasonable to me but just want some other opinions.
  • strstr Member Posts: 64
    I agree I love the arctic frost pearl paint. They will probably will be gone before long but I think I found a better deal anyway. See my post above.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I want to buy a 2005 Sienna XLE but I am wondering when the best time to do it is.

    The end of any month is a good time to do it. The salesman is trying to meet his quota and I hear will give a better deal at the end of the month.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Invoice on that 2004 XLE new is $27,500...I think you can do better (at least 1k...maybe 2k)

    The 2005 Siennas are going better than invoice with rebate. So, I would buy new and stop "messing around" ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Just returned from a 400-mile round trip. Fuel economy: 22.5 MPG. 70% was 78mph highway cruising, 25% was 60-65 country road cruising, and remainer was in-town driving. 2 adults, about 500 pounds cargo including 2 small kids and 75 pound dog. A/C was on almost the entire time.

    I really enjoy driving this van, although the tight cargo space behind the 3rd seat continues to be a challenge. We still can easily fit everything for a weekend trip, or even a weeklong one, but it requires more creative packing on my part. Our next van definitely will need to be bigger and/or more flexible in terms of cargo carrying (i.e. foldaway seats, larger cargo area, etc.).

    At 54k miles, our 2002 EX still feels tight, smooth, and solid. It is a very pleasant highway cruiser.

    We paid $22,930 for our Sedona about 3.5 years ago. It had every option except rear spoiler. To think you can a loaded EX today for $21-22k, or even less if you qualify for the $1,000 competitor minivan rebate from Kia (or the $1,000 Kia loyalty that they implement every now and then, but not currently)-- this is a nice van for people who are not concerned with badges and who do not need the very latest doo-dads. It's a little slower than a lot of other minivans and it doesn't hold quite as much stuff, but it does the job quite nicely and is a much better minivan than most people realize.
  • navyairnavyair Member Posts: 202
    BD,

    Harbor Freight salvage, or Northern Tools sells a platform that fits in a class 3 hitch. When we are traveling a long distance, it takes me about 3 min to put the platform on and within 10 min load and strap the box onto it that I put the luggage in. The new ones even have a hinge that swings the platform up (mine doesn't). The van doesn't even know the weight is back there, and it doesn't hurt mileage.

    Concur with your comments. We usually leave one of the pax seats out since the 6 pax capacity is all we need most of the time. My 2 teen also like the extra room to spread out and put lots of "stuff" everywhere.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    If I ever get to the boiling point in terms of cargo carrying needs, I will probably go the platform route. Seems smarter than a roof rack in many ways.
  • jejorg126jejorg126 Member Posts: 11
    Thanks for your reply. This is the exact area in Michigan that I live in (BRRRRR). Anyway-I am on a waiting list for the '06 XLE AWD. My main concern now is that after reading other posts, I am now aware that this vehicle does not come with a spare tire. YIKES!

    Janie
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Do most dealers require a NON-REFUNDABLE deposit?
    If yes, probably one big reason DaimlerChrysler sells the most minivans. There are Grand Caravans on the lot when a person wants the new vehicle while with Odyssey or Sienna people usually must get on a waiting list by placing a sizeable deposit. ;)
  • minttea3minttea3 Member Posts: 1
    I could really use some help. we have two children (with friends)and a giant dog and go camping...so we need space and seating area...and reliability...but we have this weird driveway configuration that is a tight fit, so we need a car less than 72 inches wide, preferably 70" or less. we found all this back in 1995 in a Honda Odyssey and we love it. Alas, after 1995 they made the odyssey much wider. we're ready for a new minivan or a late model minivan/suv, but with decent gas mileage, honda-like reliability, width the key issue, that seats at least 6 people...and can be converted to carry five and the giant dog.
    Thanks for your help!
  • jc9799jc9799 Member Posts: 70
    Well, you don't ask for much do you? If you're looking for something that narrow, the only minivan I can think of is the Mazda 5. Specs list it at just over 69" wide. I believe that the 3 row is a split bench. Only problem might be storage behind the 3rd row. Check out the Mazda 5 board, they're quite active posters.

    Another possibility is the Suzuki XL-7. It seats 7, has the split bench 3rd row, and is just a hair over 70" wide. Again, I don't know how much space you'll have with all the seats up.

    Good luck!
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    what waiting list? what deposit?

    :confuse: :confuse:
  • mcase2mcase2 Member Posts: 160
    Hans you know perfectly well there is no "waiting list" for Siennas as there was in late 03' when they first came out. I bought one in late 03' and the deposit was refundable in any case. My brother just bought an eight-seater two days ago and did not have wait. He had plenty of choices where to buy and could have picked up his Sienna at any of dozens of dealers. People review these posts to gain useful and accurate information. Please try and respect this.
  • jejorg126jejorg126 Member Posts: 11
    I'm not sure what most dealers do as far as a deposit is concerned. Our sales rep did mention that they usually require a non-refundable deposit. However, in our case, they waived the deposit all together because (a) we brought in a loan pre-approval letter from our bank, (b) My husband and I own a mid-size corporation that makes the machines that build parts for Toyota and Lexus, and (c) we just purchased a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with all the options. I also brought in proof that I had done my homework and had researched the vehicle I wanted--the Sienna. I was also very persistant in the fact that I didn't want an '05, that I would wait for the '06. So now, I am formally on the waiting list. HOWEVER-- after putting my name on the waiting list, I told my sales rep to keep me updated weekly as to any information he has concerning costs, options, delivery time, etc. if he wants to make the sale. I further told him that should he fail to keep me informed, that I will buy my '06 Sienna from another dealer. With this said, we still were not required to make a deposit.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    All of that doesn't amount to a hill of beans if they have another buyer on the waiting list willing to pay more. I would imagine 06 Siennas to be a hot ticket when they first come out. So, the fact you didn't put down a deposit may work against you.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • jejorg126jejorg126 Member Posts: 11
    What I was trying to politely say was that money isn't a issue. I want the vehicle I want. Period. The dealership recognized that I am the buyer on that waiting list willing to pay the most.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Do you think you're the only buyer where money isn't an issue? If so why the reluctance to put down a deposit? If I'm the sales manager/salesperson I would look at those putting down a deposit as someone who is serious about buying.
    I wouldn't really care about what they own or have bought in the past.
    "SHOW ME THE MONEY" is the car dealers motto. Whoever shows it first and shows the most, gets the prize.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Sorry that the post did not specify that HONDA dealers insist on the $ 500 non refundable deposit. The Toyota dealers do not...but there are very few Sienna LE ever available on the lots.
    If I wanted a loaded LE AWD, XLE with expensive options, or XLE Limited there would be a good choice.
    With DaimlerChrysler dealers, there is usually a good selection in many price ranges until now and the Employee Discount has cleared the lots of almost all NEW 2005 Caravan, Grand Caravan, and Town & Country minivans. :cry:
  • navyairnavyair Member Posts: 202
    Check your local laws. I think you will find it is illegal to charge money to get onto a waiting list. As I recall it is illegal for car dealers to charge these "non'-refundable" deposits in most states. Like all things with car dealers, that doesn't keep them from doing it though. However, if you press them on the legality of the issue, they usually come up with a reason to put you onto it...and charge the next guy the fee. Figure it out...all it takes is a few guys a year to walk away from their "non-refundable" fees and you have a nice profit. Plus you have the interest from all the money that people on the list give you just to sit on their client list. Nice scam.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Honda SCAM could very easily put us into a new Sienna or even GC SXT. ;)
    It is not worth the hassle for me to haggle over the $ 500 Non-refundable deposit at Honda dealerships when neither Sienna nor Grand Caravan dealers require one.
    In addition, the 2004 Sienna had a more responsive transmission and better acceleration than did the 2005 Odyssey test driven the same morning. ;) I do NOT care what C&D, CR, and other experts say...in my test drive, the Sienna was the best minivan...even though the Ody has much better acceleration than my 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    so no waiting list now?

    again, I don't know where you are, but I have never heard of a nonrefundable deposit
  • jejorg126jejorg126 Member Posts: 11
    After reading your post, I thought about what you had to say. So, I went this morning and placed a $20,000 deposit down on my '06 Sienna. I was told I am first on the waiting list. See? No reluctance on my part. I know what I want.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    "and placed a $20,000 deposit down on my '06 Sienna"

    Am glad to see you finally wised up jeorg. But, again...you believe the dealer when they tell you that you are first on the list??? Not a smart thing to do. Unless you are standing there when the van comes off the delivery truck you may not get what you want. Good luck though ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • ravichanderravichander Member Posts: 25
    If people feel that they should buy a Sienna or any other minivan because Honda dealers are requiring then to deposit a small fee, they should do it right away. I am sure that the Honda dealers will find other buyers. If they do not, they will drop the requirement for the deposit.

    I ordered an Odyssey EX-L RES in either Ocean Mist or Midnight blue color. After agreeing on the price and signing the buyer’s agreement I gave a check for a deposit of $500. The van was expected to leave Alabama on 7/15 and come to the dealer on 7/17. If the van was not available for purchase by 7/25 the check will be given back to me. It was to be cashed by the dealer only if I did not want to purchase the minivan within the time period.

    I felt that it was a reasonable proposition since there was always a possibility that the minivan might not find a buyer right away if I did not purchase it, and the dealer will have to foot the interest payments on the van till it was sold. The van came in on the 17th and I was given a call on the 18th. I signed the papers and delivered a check the next day and drove away with the minivan. The uncashed deposit check was returned to me on the 19th when I gave the check for the full price of the minivan.

    Some Honda dealers might be not kosher but the dealer I bought the van from, Breakaway Honda, appeared reasonable to me.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Whether or not a deposit is required, and for how much is entirely up to a selling dealer. Honda has nothing to do with this nor are they even allowed to dictate something like that.

    A $500 deposit is certainly common for dealers to request/require when ordering a vehicle for a customer. I've bought more new cars than I can count, and have never had a dealership not refund a deposit if they couldn't provide the vehicle I wanted.

    I gave my Honda dealer a check for $50 as a good-will gesture for them to search for the vehicle I was looking for (EX-L R&N silver). They were willing to sell for invoice so what's $50? They said they would refund it if for some reason they couldn't locate a vehicle for me. But considering how Honda builds their vehicles, it's generally easy to locate a what you want. I had mine the next day.

    Better than any luck I've had "ordering" a Toyota or Lexus product. In fact, of the six new Toyotas I can remember buying, I don't believe a single one was delivered the way I actually wanted it. Toyota likes to pretend vehicles are available with certain option combinations, but they never actually build any that way. We waited six months on a GX470 only to be told Lexus wasn't planning to build the vehicle the way we wanted (as was available according to their ordering). My daughters Celica GTS doesn't have side airbags even though they were "available" when we ordered. We used to pretty much only buy Toyotas. Now we've got the Ody (our first Honda) and the youngest son just got his college graduation gift, RSX-S a few weeks ago.
  • hraohrao Member Posts: 78
    This could be a good source of minivan data
    Minivan Data
    Since 1991 Quality has improved for every manufacturer, 2005 products have 50% fewer problems than 2002 products. Deomestics ( GM , FORD and Chrysler ) have improved an average of 60% in the past three year (20% every year ).
    Imports have improved as well, by about 50% in the past three year. Most 2005 Products Domestic or Imports should have similar Quality.
    Per JDPowers Longterm Dependability Consumer study, for cars 3 years or older, this is what they found. ( Actual Consumer Survey )
    Brand - Problems Per 100 Vehicles
    Honda - 201
    Toyota -194
    Chrysler - 235
    Average Mechanical Problems
    Expected Per Vehicle per Year for a given brand.
    Honda-2.0
    Toyota-1.9
    Chrysler-2.4
    2005 Odyssey scores below average for the brand, should have more than 2 problems in a given year per vehicle.
    2005 Toyota Sienna scores above average for the brand , should have less than 1.9 problems per vehicle per year.
    2005 Chrysler T&C also scores above average for the brand, should have less than 2.4 problems per year per vehicle.
  • stewardrobbinsstewardrobbins Member Posts: 41
    Every dog event I go to has mostly minivans in the parking lot. Why can’t a minivan manufacturer make a K-9 model, especially for dog owners. It could have tandard or optional features like:

    Scratch and dirt resistant door panels and upholstery and flooring (like the Honda Element).

    Platform for dog crates with tiedowns for bungee cords.

    Built-in ramp for older or large dogs to enter without jumping.

    An air conditioner that runs without running the engine, to keep the interior cool in hot weather.

    I’m sure there are lots of other possibilities…

    Please make a K-9 model – there are LOTS of dog owners who would buy it.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I don't have any dogs...but heck...I'd buy something like that to keep the kids in.
    They're always scratching, howling, and pooping all over the place. That crate with bungee cord tiedowns would come in handy. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    That made me laugh out loud! I could use that model too. I'm thinking that velcro might work better for tie downs than the bungee cords. I would also like a noise diffusor built in, when my mother-in-law comes to visit :)
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I would also like a noise diffusor built in, when my mother-in-law comes to visit"

    Hmmmm, perhaps a special K-9 edition should include muzzles?
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Thanks for the positive feedback irg. I knew one of these years I'd get a laugh from one of Edmunds more refined members. ;)

    rorr, the aftermarket muzzle market has really gone to the dogs. No profit there. I'm thinking more in the line of a Thorazine drip option on the K-9 minivan models.
    No need for the kids to have that expensive DVD system now.

    But, seriously. I doubt any manufacturer would ever go the route of K-9 minivan production. Though I'm sure there are many custom shops out there that could do the work.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Why not just buy the Honda Element? :confuse:
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    Uhh, because it is not a minivan? An Odyssey van, with an interior option like the Element, would be great for both dog owners, and larger families. The Element still doesn't have the utility like a minivan.
  • charlotte7charlotte7 Member Posts: 144
    The Element isn't big enough. I have some crazy dog lady friends with BIG dogs (mastiffs and Dobermans) and they both own minivans--one a Kia, and one an MPV. They've taken everything behind the first two seats completely out and replaced the carpeting and added in crates. Seriously, a K9 model would sell!

    Charlotte, whose German Shepherd is currently riding unhappily in the backseat of her MX-6
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Sprinter, Chevy Express or Ford Econoline? :confuse:
    Can get them with only a driver and front passenger seat and MUCH MORE interior space than any minivan. ;)
    Most people buy the minivan to be able to take 5 or more people + all necessary luggage on any length trip...and that is who DaimlerChrysler, Toyota, and Honda target for selling their very nice, comfortable minivans.
  • charlotte7charlotte7 Member Posts: 144
    Just go to a dog show (obedience, rally, agility, conformation, etc.) and take a look at what is the in parking lot, Hansienna, and then you can say that "most people" buy the minivan to take 5 or more people and luggage on trips. Seriously--you will probably be surprised.

    I also know a fair number of cyclists who've bought minivans. Vans aren't just for families anymore--I think they are really starting to appeal to people who might have bought SUVs in the recent past.
  • daedae Member Posts: 143
    I ordered an Odyssey EX-L RES in either Ocean Mist

    Congratulations!! You have made by far and away the BEST choice in the large family car market.

    (If you like leather seats of course, or that would be Honda Odyssey EX in Ocean Mist)
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