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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I have the 05 Dodge and it doesn't show that name in my owner's manual. But I'm willing to bet it's the garage door opener on your over head console.
  • lastwraithlastwraith Posts: 350
    Didn't realize you meant no dual climate on your older model Ody EX...my mistake.

    The trip computer is pretty nice to amuse yourself with on a boring trip (long drive in the midwest for example), especially the instant mpg calculations. Also, the "distance to empty" function is helpful when you are wondering if you should grab gas immediately or if you can safely wait for that next rest stop another 50 miles down the road. I have to admit that it is somewhat disappointing to be without that in a new minivan.

    I think the Ody drives much better than the GC however. The pitifully small engine differences are basically meaningless as far as I'm concerned but I do enjoy the Ody's relative nimbleness for a minivan. And the engine sounds good when wound up (it IS a Honda after all) but really.....it's a minivan. I don't plan on trying to whip any unsuspecting cars at a stoplight or on the freeway. And I disagree with mackava more with the way he said things than the facts behind them, but there is a certain threshold of performance people want in even their minivans. My '98 Plymouth Expresso is totally gutless, and it's downright dead (acceleration) over about 50mph....this even with the largest V6 offered that year. I think all three minivans for '05 pass muster for engine performance....but would agree that Honda has the most agile of the 3 entries. And in many places (NYC area especially) that is a big plus.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Posts: 758
    Good points! My wife hardly knows anything about anything under the hood ;) I'm sure she'd be bored to sleep if I tried to explain to her what OHC and OHV mean. What she really cares are good looks, convenience features (e.g. power doors), storage features, and a comfortable driving position.

    As I have posted, we've just purchased a Quest. She liked the Quest's looks the most, power doors, and then its many cleverly designed storage spaces. But she was mostly (I was too) concerned about the price! Interestingly, she absolutely fell in love with GC's stow-n-go, especially the 3rd row split seat, which she thought would make storing a double stroller a breeze. For this single reason alone, she would've thrown everything she loved about the Quest out the window...if it weren't for the GC's $1K higher price tag.

    There's NO WAY we would pay $28K for a Honda, even if it's light years better! Who cares when it's that much more expensive!! :mad: Even though we're quite affluent incomewise, we've got a huge mortgage and quite a few mouths to feed (who doesn't?).
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I think most people look for value for the buck. Of course they want their van to look good and perform well and if it does, they're wanting to get all the goodies they can for what they want to spend.

    I think Honda and Toyota have great minivans. Their down fall, as far as I'm concerned, is value for the buck. They're priced to high for what many people are willing to pay and what they offer, that people want.

    Outside of inside good looks, the features they offer and really excel in, make little difference to the average minivan buyer. The things the average buyer wants, they charge a heck of a lot of money for and price themselves out of the market to many buyers.

    Reading some of the complaints on the Toyota threads, it seems quite a few paid around $40,000 for their minivan. I don't know about most of you, but their is no way I am going to pay anywhere near that price for a minivan even though I could afford to do so. Especially if I can buy something else that has all the features on it the Toyota has, but might not be quite as nice looking, but sells for a good $15,000 less. I'm willing to bet in 5 years, if wanting to buy another, they're not going to give me $15,000 more over a Dodge, Quest, or even a Ford.
  • daedae Posts: 143
    Reading some of the complaints on the Toyota threads, it seems quite a few paid around $40,000 for their minivan

    Top of the line Chrysler, even with $2500 rebate of invoice is about $33K ($38 invoice), while Odyssey Touring can be had easily for $33.5K. Reasonably equiped EX is $26. I do not think then are so vastly different in price as you imply.

    I'm willing to bet in 5 years, if wanting to buy another, they're not going to give me $15,000 more over a Dodge, Quest, or even a Ford.

    That's an odd way of thinking. Cars depreciate proportionally to the intial price. So if they lose 50% in 5 years, 15K difference in paid price results in $7.5K difference in remaining price.

    Not that this hypothetical $15000 difference is grounded in reality for comparable products, as I mentioned above.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    No sour grapes at all. Very happy w/ the purchase.

    You're a bigtime flamer, but I don't wish you ill will, and truly hope you don't run into problems while thinking that your minivan can do things that it wasn't designed to do (the things that a GTO or other like vehicles can do)
  • irgirg Posts: 197
    "It would have been over 30,000 to get one with a power rear hatch, from what I have been reading. And $28,000 doesn't even get you the over head computer. Not sure about the upgrade radio, CD/cassette. " I got a power rear hatch on my XLE (standard) for $26k, a great overhead computer comes standard, as does a 3 way automatic climate controlled system, and standard comes a 10 speaker (including sub) JBL cd sound system, with controls on the wheel. Not $30k like you want to believe.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Congratulations irg for your good buy. But reading lots of other posts, Many others are not getting anywhere near that price for those features.
  • dhfddhfd Posts: 22
    does this price include any of the option packages?
  • irgirg Posts: 197
    Well unlike what DAE mentioned in previous posts about my purchase as being a fairy tale (or whatever he was talking about) I did my homework on this van purchase. I drove the Chevy Uplander, the Odyssey, the Caravan SXT and the Sienna. After my first round of research, I crossed off the Uplander. It lacked some of the things I most wanted in a van, and that was at least a 3rd row stowing system. The other 3 vans had that. I read reviews on the net, including here, and CR, C&D and Autoweek, to get a sense of pros and cons of each vehicle. All 3 remained in the hunt. But I also had a budget I needed to stick to. I typically lease one vehicle, and purchase a 2nd used vehicle for my short daily commute. And while the price of each van was important, the bottom line for me was the monthly payment. This may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it works for me. And I set a goal of $350, trying to include the taxes in this price, and not put anything down. And with leasing, the lowest sale price, does not always mean the lowest payments. The residuals for Toyota came out to be the best, and also in my situation (I live in NY state) the tax plays an important role. Only Toyota still leases in a traditional matter (it has to do with lawsuits, and some very old laws), so you only pay tax, on your # of payments. Honda and Dodge you have to pay the full tax, even if you only lease (or smartbuy) for 36 months. Doesn't seem fair to me. And so I looked at 2 things with the Toyota: good price, at a good dealer. I tried locally first, but I couldn't get the price I wanted, therefore the lease was too high. So I ended up at Fitzmall in Maryland, as many others have done. Great price that was advertised, and a lease payment ended up being $359, very close to what I wanted. A Honda EX cloth lease was $440, so a difference of $81. The Grand Caravan SXT (without options) was a little over $400. Given that it cost more, and I liked the Sienna more, this made the purchase of the Sienna a no brainer. I did like the Odyssey the most, and with a price of about $26K, or almost the same as the Sienna, I was surprised it cost more to lease, but I did have one very honest Honda dealer told me that right now, the leases for an Odyssey vs. the Sienna, simply weren't as competitive. That could change, but I didn't have the time to wait. If I had simply just purchased a vehicle for $24-$26k range, I would have selected the Ody first, Sienna 2nd, and Dodge 3rd.

    Others may be paying more as you mentioned, but that holds true for any car purchase. An uninformed buyer walks into a Dodge store and wants to buy a Caravan and assumes the sticker price is what he pays, I'm sure not too many dealers will try and talk him out of it. Comparing apples to apples (as best as possible) the DC Caravan SXT, Sienna XLE (base or with package #3 if you want all of the safety options) or Honda Ody EX cloth, the invoice for each will be within a couple thousand of each other. The DC has the most incentives true, but Toyota has been offering more lately, and very good financing as well. The Ody is too new for them to offer much incentives yet. Although I found one local dealer quickly offering a lower price that I expected. You can also load up all 3 vans and pay well over $30k, you are right, even close to $40k if you want every bell and whistle. I did not need, want or could afford all the bells, but felt the Sienna as I got it, had everything I needed at the price I wanted.

    What is helpful about this forum, is that it allows all of us to include the "deals" we got, or our experiences in a manner that benefits others. What others helped me with, was finding the Darcars and Fitzmall webites, to use as comparisions to my local dealers. I literally saved thousands by going to MD, than I would have if I stayed locally. Not everyone is going to do this, but I did, and I thank the others who had shared their experiences by doing so.

    I don't pretend to think that the Sienna is a cheaper van than the DC vans, for me it was. It depends on a lot of factors - where you live (for taxes), the dealers that are good or bad, and the model you want with the features you want. If I hadn't gone to Fitzmall, the DC van may be in my driveway now. Or if the leasing deals had been better at Honda, I would have gone that route. But in the end, the Sienna had the right combination to win me over.
  • irgirg Posts: 197
    Nope, just a "base" XLE, which is kind of a misnomer. I laughed at an earlier post when dae called it a stripper model. The CE is a stripper model if you can call it that. If you feel you need for example, all of the safety options, the XLE with package #3 is the one you want, I think it adds $1300 or so to the invoice. Hard to find though. Actually the base XLE is very hard to find. Most of the XLE models do have the higher level packages on them, and they do get expensive, too much for me in fact. I didn't want leather, or sunroofs, or a dvd system. Well not yet anyway. But I did want the dual power doors, and a power liftgate. And I really like the tri zone automatic climate control system, and the 10 speaker JBL sound system. Also alloys , a removable center console, and fog lights are included in this "stripper" model. Some people will want more than this, and that's fine, there are certainly many options out there. The base XLE was enough for me this time.

    And the price was advertised on Fitzmall.com's website. That is how I found it. It was actually cheaper than some of the LE models, and cheaper still to lease. Darcars also posts their price. Both places offer very good prices (usually at or below invoice). When I took the offer sheet to one local dealer, they didn't believe anyone could sell the van at that price. One guy basically said I was being conned or something. Well, all I can say is that the price I was quoted over email, and what I signed on the paperwork (financed through Toyota) was to the exact penny.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    .......Sienna LE 7 passenger w/ Pkg1 is $26,305...TMV $24,854
    Ody EX (cloth) no extra options is $28,710...TMV $27,470 ( $26,500 Actual)
    GC SXT with no extra options is $27,625.....TMV $25,572 ( $22,285 Actual)

    I have not actually priced the Sienna LE as every Toyota salesmen has been too obnoxious. In the Denver Region, Toyota has a MANDATORY option pkg 2 @ $1100 for the XLE which makes MSRP $30,890 and TMV $28,536.

    YOU got an exceptional deal on your Sienna XLE and I would seriously consider the Sienna XLE for the price you stated if the Toyota salesmen were not so obnoxious. ;)

    The Ody EX has the most power, separately controlled temp for driver and front passenger, both power sliding doors but NO overhead computer.

    The Sienna LE has NO separately controlled temp for driver and front passenger, 1 power sliding door, but does have a COMPLETE trip computer.

    The GC SXT has least power, separately controlled temp for driver and front passenger, both power sliding doors, but lacks the current mpg reading in trip computer.

    The Sienna XLE is THE BEST EQUIPPED of the ones mentioned but even at the $26,000 actual price is almost $4,000 MORE than the GC SXT. :cry:
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Agree completely that a base Sienna XLE is a misnomer. It has everything I would want and more than either the Ody EX or GC SXT. ;)
  • irgirg Posts: 197
    The problem with the D&C vans, are the incentives are only good if you finance with Chrysler, and not the great 0% rate they also advertise. I think they might be around 6-8%) You get one or the other. In most cases, the 0% is the way to go (especially if you are financing most of the purchase, if you can pay cash, then it's another story) so you almost have to add the $2500 back into the equation. At least that is what I found when I was shopping for a Grand Caravan. I did like the local dealer a lot. And he admitted a base SXT would cost more in NYState to lease than a Sienna XLE base. Now depending where you live, this won't always be the case.

    I also got a great deal, almost through a loophole. Toyota tacks on this "acquisitioin fee" to take back the vehicle. In Maryland where I got this van, it is $400, in NY it is $1050, which is too much IMO. The great thing is, the MD dealer couldn't charge me the NY fee, and because it is titled in NY state, they waived the MD fee too. A win win!

    I think it is important for others to know, when we are comparing prices and all, that certain deals just are not comparable. I've seen others tout the GC prices as the lowest, but they weren't for me. And I've seen some people here mention they have to pay close to MSRP for an Ody, whereas my local dealer was more than willing to deal. Different states and regions and different dealer experiences can make a huge difference. I liked my Dodge dealer a lot, and one of the local Toyota dealers was also pretty good, (one was bad), but the guy from Fitzmall was very nice to deal with, and the dealership overall was very honest.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Posts: 758
    Well, some shoppers might wannna know this: you could take $750 of the $1K Chrysler financing rebate, should you decide to bring your own financing. So it's not that big of a deal.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    35 years of energetic driving with no accidents and wise enough to use "heros" or "rabbits" as Smokey's bait during my high speed runs at 80+ mph for the 800 mile trek to Canada! No speeding tickets in 15+years!

    The only accident I "had" was by default when a "deadman" hit my parked car when I was visiting my wife in hospital 25 years ago for the birth of the first of my three sons. He sufferred a heart attack behind the wheel and was dead when he crashed. Came down to my parked car with the dead man no longer behind the wheel. He was in the hospital emergency.

    But you are welcome to hit any parked Ody under similar circumstances!
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    The problem with the D&C vans, are the incentives are only good if you finance with Chrysler, and not the great 0% rate they also advertise. I think they might be around 6-8%) You get one or the other. In most cases, the 0% is the way to go (especially if you are financing most of the purchase, if you can pay cash, then it's another story) so you almost have to add the $2500 back into the equation. At least that is what I found when I was shopping for a Grand Caravan

    I financed 0% with Chrysler and still got over $3,500.00 off the listed price back in Dec.on the Dodge SXT.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Posts: 758
    "35 years of energetic driving with no accidents and wise enough to use "heros" or "rabbits" as Smokey's bait during my high speed runs at 80+ mph for the 800 mile trek to Canada! No speeding tickets in 15+years! "

    Would you mind explaining this one more time in plain English :P
  • lastwraithlastwraith Posts: 350
    Well, "rabbits" as in dog racing rabbits, these would be people who just HAVE to set the pace and be ahead of the rest of the pack...which is also driving at a rapid pace.

    Personally, I would really rather not hear any other comments about high-speed driving habits on a minivan forum...the whole thing is pretty absurd. But, that's just my $0.02
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    I wouldn't consider going 80mph "high speed driving". Most people cruise at about 75mph on the highway.
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