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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,633
    "fluid circulation problems"??

    You are right about one thing. People do get what they pay for.

    Overpriced? hardly...
  • 1."How is 240 Hp and 242 ft lbs torque superior in all aspects to the Honda Odyssey at 244 HP and 240 ft lbs torque? Toyota maybe"

    It's the size of the mountain of torque this engine produces, more torque available in the lower part of the rpm band and the horsepower on top to deliver strong high rpm passing power.

    2. Resale means little to me because I do not turn over a vehicle every 2 years. I keep them 5-7 years at least. As to the 40% thing, well thats just a little far fetched......Lets talk as a % of actual price bought for and rerun the numbers to see what we really get. I think some people are trying to justify getting ripped off by Honda and Toyota... in price ;) ;)

    BTW just4fun2, you sound like a smart person ;)
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    all this talk about melodic motors and driving excitement seems quite humorous to me. I enjoy 'spirited' driving but not when driving a minivan or SUV. If that is a requirement or key component for you, then you'll be wise to steer toward an Ody. But for many folks, they could care less if the handling is tight or floaty. They are driving a minivan, and they don't need tight handling to drive SAFELY -- and that's what they are most concerned with.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    That's not a bad buy at all. I don't know if the crash performance has improved or if it is still poor as it was a few years back. That would be my primary concern with a GM minivan-- that and long-term quality.

    The Ody and Sienna lovers who bash someone who got a loaded Relay for $22k are doing potential buyers a real disservice.

    Sure, the Relay isn't as good. But it is a LOT cheaper, and purchase price matters to a lot of minivan buyers.
  • Thats something I checked (crash test scores) before I went out test driving vans. The new GM vans rate good in the iihs offset and 5 star in the government tests. They have NOTHING in common with crash tests from older GM minivans - which were very scary in offset tests! :surprise:

    As to everything else you said....ditto! ;) ;)

    1st tank of gas through the Relay - 24 mpg mixed driving. not bad........ :P :)
  • It seems like a favorable Saturn reveiw to me :confuse:
  • After reading the above review on the Relay, I have to say it looks like you get "more" than you pay for! Great value for your dollar, not like other minivans that are way over priced for that so called refinement.

    Soderholmd, great gas mileage right out of the box! Nice not having to wait 10k miles like some vans for the MPG to improve. Looking forward to hearing about your experience with your Relay!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    2001 Odd EX much noisier than less expensive 2002 T&C LX. Odd VTEC 3.5L has same off the line acceleration as T&C 3.3L...but the Odd does have better acceleration at speeds above 45 -50 MPH. (Most noticeable at speeds above 75-80 MPH on Interstate with no cops in sight. :shades: )
    Odd seats more comfortable but Odd EX lacks many nice features of my less expensive T&C: Heating coils at base of windshield, lighted controls on doors, complete overhead console with outside temp/compass and accurate trip computer, separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger, QUALITY stereo system, QUALITY horn....just for starters.
    The Odd EX does have power sliding doors on each side and cast wheels that are not on my T&C. The Odd AT still works as well as the AT in the T&C. :blush:
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    But for $22,000 you're getting MORE than what you're paying for with a Relay.

    For $31,000 I think I'd just get a Sienna.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Our 05 Odyssey has been great so far. We're looking to put 150,000 miles on it and sell it for $2000, so resale value is insignificant. But what is important is the safety ratings, reliability, and fit/finish of the van. We'll have it 7 years or so and the package has to be great since we'll be in it a long time.

    Plus everybody else seems to love our van. Especially the SUVers. There is so much more room in a van. And 28 mpg on the highway with 255 horsepower is nice too.
  • That looks like a great review macakava! Thanks for sharing. I have to agree with what is says. It's funny the thrashing that the import croud unjustly likes to lay on the domestics to justify the higher price they payed.........
    I'd have to argue that this Relay has the nicest looking interior in vandom. Luxurious, classy and quiet. The seat heaters are really nice in Minnesota this time of year! :blush: ;)
    Once again, Resale means little to me, especially when I have 14K less depreciation and loan to worry about right up front! That combined with 7 years of ownership means I have little to worry about when it's finally time to replace this van.

    I tried out the onstar safe and sound package just to see what happens. Pushed the button and when I told the onstar lady that their was no problem and I was just "trying it out" she didnt think it was too funny...............ooopppsss!! :surprise:

    Good to hear your Odyssey experience has been good leadfoot6! Just goes to proove that all manufacturers are producing good vehicles. :P
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    To some of us by the time we get around to trading cars, resale on anything wouldn't be too terribly much.

    I'm one of them. I'm not that worried about depreciation.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    I am with you, Mon!

    For about $26K for the Ody EX, the superior mechanical performance vs the competition is priceless!

    In most/all cases, buying cheap is not always the best deal. That's life. "You get what you pay for" raises its ugly head somewhere along the way.
  • If Soderholmd gets "zero" dollars back at the end of 5-6 years, he will still have the 12-14K in his pocket that the over priced Honda would have cost him. I doubt that in 5-6 years his Relay will be worth "zero" dollars. I guess some people feel better at resale time getting more money back for the Honda, but forget that they paid so much more to begin with. I would rather invest that 12-14K for 5-6 years and watch my money grow than getting the same 12-14K back when I sell the van. What will todays 12-14K be worth 6 years down the road. Looks like you lose at the beginning and the end buying a over priced Ody.

    How much did your Ody cost you when you bought it? What was the resale when you sold it? Years owned, miles driven?
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Posts: 170
    If you used that method of justifying everything you bought over the years you wouldn't have anything nice. I'll be you a shot of tequila the Odyssey will deliver more comfort, safety, performance, and pride of ownership over the life of the vehicle than a afterthought kind of vehicle like the Relay.

    You could also only get a burger at McDonalds (instead of Fuddruckers) a steak at Western Sizzlin ( instead of Ruths Chris) shoes by Champion (instead of New balance) a college education at a community college (instead of an Ivy League school ) and so on ......using your methodology.

    I got a loan for a guy a few months back who got deployed and killed in Iraq recently. He had pulled up in a 911 to apply at my office. Maybe he knew something about living.
  • A lot of our "Top" elected officials in America have Ivy League educations and they seem about as dumb as a rock. Just because something costs more, i.e. Fuddrickers doesn't mean that it has value for what it will cost. By your example I guess that a Rolls Royce is better than an Honda anything simply it has to be better because of the increased cost.

    As with anything there comes a point where the cost will out pace the value given. Comparing a 22K Relay, sorry, 21.5K Relay, I believe that he got a 500.00 dollar card from Target to the Ody that cost 12-14K more is a shining example of lost cost value.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    YES...to most of us, the Edmunds review of the Saturn Relay is very favorable. ;)
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    How much did your Ody cost you when you bought it? What was the resale when you sold it? Years owned, miles driven?

    My 2002 Odyssey EX (cloth) cost approximately $28,000 after taxes but before financing at 6% for 36 months. I paid it off early 12 months later.

    Resale Value: If I were to dump the van right now, I could get around $9600 trade in and $12,000 private party, per KBB. (theoretical values; I haven't tried listing my van yet as I don't have plans for a new one yet)

    Years Owned: 4 years as of today. (I bought it 12/26/01)

    Miles Driven: approximately 84,000. (21,000 miles per year)

    Need any other information? :)
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    THANKS. ;)
    There is really NO good reason for you to sell it yet and buy a new one. The 02 Ody EX has the 5 speed AT that performed very well in the 02 Ody EX-L-NAV that I test drove in the fall of 2001. I like the 7 spoke cast wheels more than the previous 5 spoke and the current cast wheels of the 2005-06 Ody and I think the 2002-2004 Odyssey is one of the most attractive minivans built.
  • First off I want to say...Happy Birthday to your Ody! Are you planning to keep it past 100k miles? Wasn't the 2002 year one of the model years that Honda recalled for poor transmission fluid flow and inspected some gear in the transmission for failure? If, so, how did your gear look, did you follow Honda recommended service for the transmission or have you changed the fluid more often?

    The only other information we need to know is how much you get for the Ody when you sell it. Without that informaion we only have half the picture. Thanks!
  • No need to bash everything. The market price of minivan #1 is the market price of minivan #2, adjusted for the perception of the market place. Hondas and Toyotas sell for more than GM minivans because the market allows it. Why? Because many people think they are worth more, but not all people agree.

    I've driven the new GM minivans, they're not bad, but let's face it. They are the old Opel-inspired narrow box with a new long front end that was glued on to improve crash scores. Some people won't care, others may even like it. If they don't mind it why pay the premium for a Honda or Toyota? But they are certainly not in the same league technically.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Ummm... I don't know how long I'll keep it. Perhaps until it breaks, or maybe until I have some cash sitting around or when I pay off the Infiniti. (2 years and 2 months left)

    They did recall my Odyssey, but the dealer checked it (different dealer than the one I use now) and it turned out fine. They inspected second gear I believe.

    I just followed Honda's service guide.

    Any previous Odyssey owners here willing to provide the whole story? (not just half) :)
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    I really enjoy our 04' Mazda MPV that we have had for over 12,000 troublefree(knock on wood) miles. Though we don't use the fold flat rear seat that often...it sure came in handy in hauling a vast bounty of Christmas booty back home from grandmothers house. The Japanese made quality and performance meets or exceeds those of it's competitiors(in my opinion). The Ford Duratec engine isn't the epitome of refinement...but it is a very good and reliable one. It handles very well and the brakes are excellent. It also is one of the most attractive minivans on the market(with the sport package)...both in the interior and exterior. Perfect for a family of 4. ;)
  • The MPV is another one of those minivans that have slipped through the cracks. If you dont have a need for the extra space, then it's definately worth a look!
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    "No $10K rebate can replace its superior mechanical/driving performance for me. "

    Hey, we're talking about a MINIVAN, not a sportscar. But to each his own. If you plan on taking your wife and kids around twisty roads a little fast in your Odyssey, I'm sure they'll love all that bouncing around that's going on behind you ;) It's almost better to have worse handling because that will prevent people from driving a minivan full of kids like they were in a sports car.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    "you can look up any minivan comparo on any testing sources like C & D, R & T, etc and you would see the domestics at the bottom of the pile for performance. Ford and GM minivans fight for last place. "

    True, but you need to look a little deeper and see the real differences they came in last place. Usually it's for engine power & handling because that's what the car magazines are interested in writing about. They use the same test criteria on sports cars as they do on minivans. But I'd say that most people driving a minivan full of kids to a soccer game or down the highway aren't all that concerned with 0-60 times or G forces
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    "Hey, we're talking about a MINIVAN, not a sportscar. But to each his own"

    It depends on your driving style. Our family vehicles cover a broad range from minivan to sedans, luxury sport sedans, convertibles, and trucks. And in all categories, we choose the better performing ones that are fun to drive while performing their respective tasks. These vehicles include the Ody, CTS-V, Maxima, Ridgeline, SL500, & BMW 550i.

    Oh I forgot to mention our now trusty well maintained 10 yr old Continental with the 32V DOHC V8, that continues to surprise many other drivers on the road with its quick moves.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    When buying my 2005 Dodge G.C., I debated if I should buy the extended warranty. I mean I have a three year, 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 7/70,000 power train warranty. Should I get yet another at a cost of around $1,300.00, almost twice what an extended warranty cost on my old Dodge Dakota back in 2001? Well at first I said no, it was to expensive and I shouldn't need it. I didn't need it on the Dakota. But then I read where Chrysler's roadside service doesn't cover you if you get a flat, run out of gas, lock yourself out, etc. It only covers you if a part that is covered under their warranty breaks down. So I called AAA and asked what they charge for road side service for my wife and I. They quoted me a price of $145.00 a year which includes a tow for up to 100 miles. I got out my pin and paper and saw at that price for seven years, I would have to pay $1,015.00 just for roadside service. If I were to have the compressor on my A/C go out in the fourth or fifth year, that alone could cost $1,000.00 or more. Although I didn't want to get it, that 7/70,000 extended warranty seem pretty reasonable to me now. Especially with all the power equipment on the G.C. I seems everything is powered. Even if I never need it, it's only $285.00 more than what I would have to pay AAA for seven years of just road side service.(If they don't raise their rates again that is) This way I have the roadside service and have everything covered on my van for 7/70,000 except wear items for a mear $285.00 more. Not a bad deal after all. Of course Our Honda Civic is covered for roadside service. Check your warranty out on the van you are buying and see if they offer roadside service for flats, out of gas, etc. It might pay you to also get the extended service contract even if you never have a break down.
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