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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    The way I see it, the seats are up or down in the DCX with stow and go. In the Honda they are up, out, down, slid together, 8th seat in, 8th seat out, 8th seat back cushion removed and back folded to make a tray for the second row.

    I've seen a Honda salesperson demonstration stowing the 8th "seat" into it's storage area - not easy. I've removed seats from from minivans - not easy. I've reintalled seats - not easy. I've slid the seats together on an Ody (2004) - not easy (especially when compared to the seats in a Mazda MPV).

    Lush...lol, oh yeah, Odys are like Maybachs or Bentleys, sorry I forgot....I keep thinking they're minivans but for Ody owners they're also BMWs, Mercedes and Maybachs.

    You bought DCX because you had to have stow and go. I know this may be hard to comprehend, but I'm fully capable of speaking for myself here, thank you very much!! I purchased my DCX for quality, durability, safety, and performance (ohhh I know, the Ody is an amazing 1.4secs faster to 60 mph!!). It has the most flexible and easy to configure interior of any minivan. It has superior tow capacity, and much lower cost to equip with tow package (including auto air suspension - not available on Ody). It has been extremely trouble free (unlike the 250 posts in less than 2 months for Ody problems 2005+). I actually hit my EPA numbers for my van (sometimes exceed them even!) On top of all that, it was about $10,000 less then equivalent Ody EX (yeah, I'm at the extreme savings end but $5000 is easy to do!). Ohh, and the Stow N Go system is great for people with active lifestyles....like camping, windsurfing, shopping trips to outlet malls etc...
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I'm sure it will impress your passengers. It impressed me when I first saw it, when buying our Civic. But I'm a little more down to earth. I'm not out to impress anyone but my wife and myself.

    Darn again!!!! Here I am thinking that all my friends were going to be impressed by my Minivan!!!! They're not???Isn't that the reason most people buy a Minvan???

    Thanks for ruining my week Marine2!!!!
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    You dennisctc, jumped on me when I spoke about my 1994 DGC and the POS it was. Now YOU are comparing the 2004 Odyssey to current, 100% changed model?

    While it may take an extra minute to stow the "Magic Seat" it still permits an eighth person to ride belted in the Odyssey. Tell me, how does one stuff that extra person into a stow and go compartment?
  • "I'll run through a very typical scenario: load up the kids and get them buckled into their seats in the 2nd row. Drive to grandparents house to pick them up for dinner. With the Ody, the kids stay in their seats and grandma/grandpa go down the side aisle to the rear (or my wife goes to the rear with grandma and grandpa slides in next to the driver). With the DGC, 1 child has to get unbuckled/get out and then the seat tilted forward (or were you going to do that with the seat occupied?), the back seat is accessed, and then the child is rebuckled. Yep, way more convenient my way. "

    I have yet to have a problem with ANY of my passengers not being able to get to the back seat through the middle with both kids strapped in their seats. The tip is to move the front seats up so they have room to move. And I'm not talking about slim people.

    And I also have the 2004 T&C, which has bigger middle seats
  • I've seen a Honda salesperson demonstration stowing the 8th "seat" into it's storage area - not easy. I've removed seats from from minivans - not easy. I've reintalled seats - not easy. I've slid the seats together on an Ody (2004) - not easy (especially when compared to the seats in a Mazda MPV).

    It may not be easy compared to a folding seat, but storing and re-installing the Plus One is easy compared to removing the 8th seat in a Sienna. It's all relative, plus it gets easier with practice- something my salespersons didn't have when demonstrating the center seats on both the Odyssey and Sienna.

    Similarly, Stow 'n Go is far easier than removing a captain's chair, but not as easy or quick as most current third row folding seats. I had some difficulty the first few times I tried it, but it was easier after that. Even Consumer Reports noted, "Access to the third row is good, but it's awkward to flip the second-row seats forward."

    The Honda sliding seat is quite easy and fast once you get the hang of it. It's not quite as nice as the Mazda, because you don't have to tilt the Mazda seat back slightly to move it. On the other hand, it's easier than the 7-passenger Sienna that requires you to remove and lift the captain's chair completely before re-installing it on the other anchors.

    Everything is a compromise, which is pretty much the point of discussing the advantages these systems have for one family but may not apply to others.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    "especially when compared to the seats in a Mazda MPV"

    You got that right. :shades:
  • If I only wanted a cargo hauler, I would have kept my truck...I think...I wanted...I not only had...I had...I had...I feel I got...I think I have...If I have anything ...I'm covered...I'll be just as happy...I'll smile when...I didn't have to pay...

    That's a lot of "I"s. No need to be defensive- I think most have made it repeatedly clear they aren't being critical of your particular choice. As you aptly said, "We'll both be happy because we bought a minivan that was right for us." Highlighting the differences and realizing they may apply differently to other buyers is the key point. artpgo actually said the same thing at the end of post 1693 (the section you didn't quote).
  • "I purchased my DCX for quality, durability, safety, and performance (ohhh I know, the Ody is an amazing 1.4secs faster to 60 mph!!). It has the most flexible and easy to configure interior of any minivan. It has superior tow capacity, and much lower cost to equip with tow package (including auto air suspension - not available on Ody). It has been extremely trouble free (unlike the 250 posts in less than 2 months for Ody problems 2005+). I actually hit my EPA numbers for my van (sometimes exceed them even!) On top of all that, it was about $10,000 less then equivalent Ody EX (yeah, I'm at the extreme savings end but $5000 is easy to do!). Ohh, and the Stow N Go system is great for people with active lifestyles....like camping, windsurfing, shopping trips to outlet malls etc..."

    I purchased my Honda for a flexible and easy to configure interior (ohhh I know, the DCX is a little easier for cargo when you need the second row space!). It has good towing capacity. It has superior quality, durability, safety, performance and fuel economy according to published comparisons like those by Consumer Reports, Motor Trend and MotorWeek. It has superior passenger capacity (including an 8th seat not available on DCX). On top of all that, it was also a great value when you consider operating costs and resale- in fact it was the best overall value according to Intellichoice. Ohh, and the stability control and standard side curtain airbags with rollover sensors and crash sensors for all three rows are great for people who want to avoid crashes and survive those that do happen...

    ;-) OK, apologies for the satire... Again, the point is that you made the choice that was best for you. There are still differences that may cause someone else to make a different choice because their preferences may vary.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I'm trying to figure out how a vehicle which offers fewer possible seating combinations (the DCX vans with sto'n'go) is more flexible?

    Easy to reconfigure? Sure, no doubt. But if other vans offer more possible ways to configure the seating, wouldn't they be more flexible?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Now YOU are comparing the 2004 Odyssey to current, 100% changed model? Only because I haven't had the opportunity to slide the seats together on a 2005+ Ody, maybe there's been major improvements, maybe not? That's why I spoke to 2004. I didn't make comparisons to a 3 generation old design....hmm sorry Honda didn't have a minivan back then?? My biggest POS was a 1979 Honda Civic....SO WHAT!! Doesn't mean current Civics are crap or even other 1979s, and I really like the new Si Coupe and how they intregrated the Nav into the two tier IP!!

    Tell me, how does one stuff that extra person into a stow and go compartment?

    Chop em up into small pieces first!! Actually I bet more people purchased their Stow N Go van for the flexiblility than Honda buyers for 8th seat.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    While it may take an extra minute to stow the "Magic Seat" it still permits an eighth person to ride belted in the Odyssey. Tell me, how does one stuff that extra person into a stow and go compartment?


    You don't. Same way you can't stuff nine people belted in on your Ody. But So far, I haven't had even seven people to carry in my van.

    It's the same as the one poster said, if I get rear ended and I have kids in the back seat and I have stuff to haul in the middle, there is no protection for them, none. Don't I have as much protection from the rear of my van as he would if he had kids sitting back there and got rear ended? Funny how we only seem to look at things from one point of view. My chances of having to haul eight is probably as good as your's is to haul nine.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,232
    It's clear that Honda owners have more friends so they need the extra seating :P Sorry, couldn't help myself with all the other ridiculousness around here!!

    It amazes me how some folks just can't fathom someone else having a different situation/requirement over someone else. I think it's clear the DCX vans have the market locked up for swapping between passengers/cargo. The Honda has it locked up if you want a full 2nd row bench. I wanted to seat three in the 2nd row, so I bought the Honda. My elderly mother will be buying a DC van because she uses it for cargo, and occassionally passengers. Pretty simple stuff.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I loved it sebring95
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "...if I get rear ended and I have kids in the back seat and I have stuff to haul in the middle, there is no protection for them, none. Don't I have as much protection from the rear of my van as he would if he had kids sitting back there and got rear ended?"

    No, you don't have as much protection.

    First: you grandkids are sitting in the 3rd row, closer to the rear-ending car. My kids are sitting in the 2nd row, further from the rear-ending car.

    Second: when a car is struck violently from the rear, that car is driven forward. The laws of inertia dictate that all objects INSIDE the van (people and cargo) tend to stay in place (don't move forward with the van); which is why you see whiplash injuries from heads snapping backwards, etc.

    Cargo in the middle of van (like a heavy air compressor or dresser) likewise tend to stay in place as the van is driven forward. In the same manner as things will fly FORWARD if you nail the brakes, the air compressor will fly BACKWARD if you get rear-ended.

    Right back into the legs/face/torso of children in the 3rd row.

    BTW - you might want to check the user's profile of cpsdarren. And you might want to listen when he posts items regarding cargo hauling and child safety.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    "In the end, I'll offer this:

    IMO, the DCX vans offer more EASE in converting from people hauling to cargo handling; particularly if the 2nd row area is needed.

    IMO, other vans offer more VERSATILITY in seating, particularly if 3rd row acess is desired."

    Excellent post, and an excellent synopsis that I have not seen made by anyone else so far on this board. Nice work.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    ..if I get rear ended and I have kids in the back seat and I have stuff to haul in the middle, there is no protection for them, none. Don't I have as much protection from the rear of my van as he would if he had kids sitting back there and got rear ended?"

    No, you don't have as much protection.

    First: you grandkids are sitting in the 3rd row, closer to the rear-ending car. My kids are sitting in the 2nd row, further from the rear-ending car.

    I am talking about you having a full van and you have children sitting back there. They would be as vulnerable as my kids from a rear end hit. Unless you never carry kids in your third row. If that's the case, you don't need an eight passenger van.

    Second: when a car is struck violently from the rear, that car is driven forward. The laws of inertia dictate that all objects INSIDE the van (people and cargo) tend to stay in place (don't move forward with the van); which is why you see whiplash injuries from heads snapping backwards, etc.

    Your head will go backwards no matter if your in the second or third row.

    Cargo in the middle of van (like a heavy air compressor or dresser) likewise tend to stay in place as the van is driven forward. In the same manner as things will fly FORWARD if you nail the brakes, the air compressor will fly BACKWARD if you get rear-ended.

    The cargo will go no place when hit if it is secured. That is why I carry rope in the one bin I showed in the picture. You have no way of securing it in the rear as there are no tie downs.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Thanks. Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead....
  • The cargo will go no place when hit if it is secured. That is why I carry rope in the one bin I showed in the picture. You have no way of securing it in the rear as there are no tie downs.

    Strong rope securely tied to the chassis should be fine for most loads.

    When I carry moderate sized things behind the third row, I often use heavy-duty solid rubber bungees looped around the leg of the third row seat or clipped on to unused child restraint tether anchors. Combined with the well in the floor and the barrier of the full-width third row seat, the cargo isn't likely to move.

    Restrained properly, either way should be fine for all but unusually severe crashes. The only problem is unrestrained or poorly restrained cargo, wherever you happen to have it.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Thanks. Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead....

    Yes, if you were ahead.
  • Current market research indicates that consumers are cross-shopping brands more than ever due to the availability of information on the internet. When you bought your last vehicle, how many did you look at? More than one i am guessing. I am quite sure that no manufacturer, no matter what their reputation, product offering or specific 'gadget' has their particular market locked up exclusively. Whether its stow and go, safety, accessories, etc. the market is far to static to give any one manufacturer a lock. Even though I own a Pilot, if I wanted a van, I would test-drive Mazda, maybe a Toyota, the new Sedona and the Ody. No others would have my interest for a number of reasons. But that is just me!
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Restrained properly, either way should be fine for all but unusually severe crashes. The only problem is unrestrained or poorly restrained cargo, wherever you happen to have it.

    I agree completely cpsdarren
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Is this another one of those "1.4 seconds faster to 60mph" quibbles i.e.. I can seat one extra person, which is much more important to me and my family and I'd never use Stow N Go, then not having to remove seats, lug em in and out, then find a place to put em. I think the marketplace has already decided that Stow N Go is more important to many more buyers than an 8th seat.

    I'll quibble that EASE and FLEXIBILITY "ON THE GO" for DCX beats all.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    The Honda has it locked up if you want a full 2nd row bench. I wanted to seat three in the 2nd row, so I bought the Honda.

    Doesn't Toyota offer full bench also??
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Even though I own a Pilot, if I wanted a van, I would test-drive Mazda, maybe a Toyota, the new Sedona and the Ody. No others would have my interest for a number of reasons. But that is just me!


    I am sorry to hear that you will lock out all American vans out of consideration. Many are doing that with cars too. America has come a long way in bringing up their quality, although I admit there are still some models that haven't. On a whole, America has moved passed the Europeans in quality and are gaining on and even over taking some Japanese brands.

    I think this country is really going to hurt if we allow American manufactures go under. While other countries are building new plants here and hiring American workers, billions of dollars in profit is leaving this country and creating jobs abroad when it could be used here to create jobs for Americans.

    Now I know from past conversations, some are going to say billions of dollars are spent here with some of that profit, modernizing plants and buying parts ,etc. All this is true. But that doesn't take away from the fact that American manufactures put many billions more back into the American economy than foreign manufactures do. Creating even more jobs for Americans.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Is this another one of those "1.4 seconds faster to 60mph" quibbles..."

    No, not really. If the Ody is 1.4 seconds quicker to 60, it would be inaccurate to claim that the DCX van was faster. It makes no difference if the delta is 1.4 seconds or 14 seconds.

    Same thing with the seating. The Ody offers more seating options. Even with the Touring model (which doesn't have the +1 seat), the fact that the RH 2nd row seat can be slid to the center means an additional seating arrangement option. This option is not available on the DCX vans. Ergo, the Ody offers more seating options. More options = more flexibility.

    I've already said (numerous times) that reconfiguring the DCX van is more CONVENIENT due to sto'n'go. But I don't equate convenience with flexibility.

    Anybody want to argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,232
    Doesn't Toyota offer full bench also??

    Yes, they offer three seats in the 2nd row as does Honda. Perhaps I was too vague. Toyota's offering only comes on the LE model, which doesn't have leather nor dual power sliding doors, etc. A base model in my book. Honda offers it in their middle model at least. I would have preferred a Touring with the 8th seat, but EX-L R&N isn't equipped too bad.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I've removed seats from from minivans - not easy.

    Yes, I remember how complicated it was on our 2000 Ody EX.

    Let me run through all of the steps.

    1) Unlatch seat from anchor (pull a tab at bottom/side of seat

    2) Remove seat

    3) Wait...there is no more to do. If that's not easy, I don't know what is.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I've removed seats from from minivans - not easy.

    Yes, I remember how complicated it was on our 2000 Ody EX.

    Let me run through all of the steps.

    1) Unlatch seat from anchor (pull a tab at bottom/side of seat

    2) Remove seat

    3) Wait...there is no more to do. If that's not easy, I don't know what is.


    Put something down on the floor so you don't get the bottom edges dirty. Pull it out of the van. Carry it out to the garage. Come back from getting what you want to haul and pick up seat, carry it back to the van and reinstall it. When all you had to do is have stow and go and you could stow and set it back up in about a minute with no carrying and no fuss.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Put something down on the floor so you don't get the bottom edges dirty. Pull it out of the van. Carry it out to the garage

    Not for us, our van stayed in the clean garage anyway. It was 1)unlatch it, 2)pick it up, set it down 2 feet away beside the bikes. The bottom edges are hard plastic, nothing to get dirty. Reinstallation is as easy as 1)picking it up, 2)setting it in place. It self-latches.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Not for us, our van stayed in the clean garage anyway. It was 1)unlatch it, 2)pick it up, set it down 2 feet away beside the bikes. The bottom edges are hard plastic, nothing to get dirty. Reinstallation is as easy as 1)picking it up, 2)setting it in place. It self-latches.

    Sounds pretty good to me as long as you didn't have to drive back home to do it.
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