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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    "I guarantee it is easier than DCX"

    Guarantee??? Or what...double my money back? :surprise:

    Consumer Reports saying the Ody is 2006's top minivan is the same thing as you saying you guarantee your Ody third row seats fold easier(or hold more llamas) than dennistic's. Mostly, a subjective matter of opinion, personal taste and preferences. If you buy whatever best fits your needs and desires, then you come out of top. As you choose the best minivan for you...not the minivan that was best for Consumer Reports or Motor Trend. ;)
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    "Have you ever seen let alone tried to fold the third row in the Odyssey? I guarantee it is easier than in DCX. One latch and it folds in two seconds. Unstowing is just as easy. So, you say the DCX is easier? "

    Have YOU tried the DCX vans? From your posts here, it sounds like you'd never even set foot in a dealership...
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    The Sedona hasn't been crash tested by the IIHS yet so nobody knows how well it will hold up but other than that the base Sedona and the base Odyssey are the best buys. There's not much justification in buying the higher end models (EX-L and EX) unless you're looking for specific features like navigation.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    CR and Edmunds may think Odd and Sedona are best buys but most Americans feel otherwise. Neither of them state that the Odd LX or Sedona LX are the best buy.

    Most Americans like more features than the base Odd LX or Sedona LX contain. Most Odd dealers do NOT even stock or order the Odd LX because of very low demand.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Most Americans like more features than the base Odd LX or Sedona LX contain. Most Odd dealers do NOT even stock or order the Odd LX because of very low demand.

    I'm not disagreeing with you here, but where did you get the idea that most american's don't buy Odyssey LX's.

    Is there any statistical data that can support that?

    I personally would not buy the Odyssey LX. I prefer the features on the EX models.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Just look up isellhondas posts. He has stated more than once that there are VERY FEW Odyssey buyers who will buy the Odyssey LX.

    The Odyssey is # 3 in minivan sales. Do the math. There are NOT many Odyssey LX minivans sold. The majority of Odyssey buyers want as a minimum the Odyssey EX and many opt for the EX-L that has NAV or RES optional.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    "Have you ever seen let alone tried to fold the third row in the Odyssey? I guarantee it is easier than in DCX. One latch and it folds in two seconds. Unstowing is just as easy. So, you say the DCX is easier? "


    I doubt the DGC is easier to fold than the Ody, although it is easy. But only because it folds two different ways. It folds flat like the Ody, but it also flips over to make tailgate seating that the Ody doesn't do.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    OK, so I'm driving down I75 in Detroit yesterday and was behind a new Sedona and DCX GC. The Kia looked a lot smaller than the Dodge??? (Yes i'm certain it was 2006 and not previous smaller gen)

    Also stopped at a Honda dealer yesterday to double check the 3rd folding seats. Luckily I thought "cool, there's one in showroom" because it was about 15 outside. I walked inside and was nabbed by a salesperson......after 20 minutes of BSing with the guy, I finally walked over to the Ody in the corner. It was beautiful....dark blue, gray leather...a loaded Touring with sticker of $38k!!!! I was impressed by it, but then thought "wow, that's twice what I paid for my Dodge, so I should be". Of course the model on the showroom had no juice, and therefore I couldn't get hatch open to check out seats. Maybe when it's warmer in Detroit (like August :)
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    My driver door has a higher quality "thunk" to it closing!!

    Not hardly.

    Have you ever even looked at an DCX van? Only about 50 times as rentals and in a back to back opinion poll. I have driven DCX vans many times (sometimes weeks at a time) because I primarily rent from Dollar whose fleet is loaded with DCX vans. Matter of fact, when Dollar does not have the reserved model they will offer up a DCX van as a substitute. Most other customers at the rental counter will chuckle and ask for something else but not me. The people are not refusing the vans became of make, guess they don't want to be seen by business associates in a minivan.....fool people.

    I know you read about the time in October of 2004, when I was randomly selected for an opinion poll to actually drive four minivans back to back over a six mile course of city streets, freeway and bad roads (although they are hard to find in Texas ;) ). I drove the T & C w/ stow and go, Freestar, Relay and Odyssey. The Odyssey was #1 in my opinion in all the catagories. As I drove a proctor asked opinion questions that I was required to score. The proctor recorded my answers. The ride in the Relay was good but not close to the Honda. The Ford and Chrysler were both far behind.

    If one reads the April, 2006 auto issue of Consumer Reports you can see that DCX has fallen far behind Honda and Toyota with quality "worse than average".
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Also stopped at a Honda dealer yesterday to double check the 3rd folding seats. Luckily I thought "cool, there's one in showroom" because it was about 15 outside. I walked inside and was nabbed by a salesperson......after 20 minutes of BSing with the guy, I finally walked over to the Ody in the corner. It was beautiful....dark blue, gray leather...a loaded Touring with sticker of $38k!!!! I was impressed by it, but then thought "wow, that's twice what I paid for my Dodge, so I should be". Of course the model on the showroom had no juice, and therefore I couldn't get hatch open to check out seats. Maybe when it's warmer in Detroit (like August.

    You mean with an almost $30,000. minivan you can't open the rear hatch with a dead battery? You can with the Chrysler, with an electric rear hatch. Maybe Honda should put a battery saver in their vans so they don't have to worry someone doesn't close the doors all the way or leave a dome light on and run down the battery on their minivans. That can't happen on a Chrysler/Dodge minivan.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    My driver door has a higher quality "thunk" to it closing!!

    Not hardly.


    I would be the first one to admit the Honda is much nicer than the Dodge minivan inside. But I will also say the Dodge does have a high quality thunk to their doors

    The ride in the Relay was good but not close to the Honda. The Ford and Chrysler were both far behind.


    Not sure what your looking for in the ride of these minivans, but the ride of the Chrysler is softer than the ride of the Honda. One only has to go over a bumb or railroad tracks to see that. Honda has a much firmer ride.

    If one reads the April, 2006 auto issue of Consumer Reports you can see that DCX has fallen far behind Honda and Toyota with quality "worse than average".

    I get CR, although I haven't got the April issue yet. I don't know what they are judging quality on. True both Japanese models are much nicer inside and offer some features Chrysler doesn't, but owners are paying for the extra quality and features. A goood $5,000-$8,000.00 more.
  • 97xpresso97xpresso Posts: 249
    The last paragraph in post 1787, was not meant to be taken seriously. (except for the part about the glovebox closing easier :P )
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Perhaps if dennisctc had used the key............
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    marine2,

    At the time I drove those vans I had not decided on which to buy. The opinion survey test drive sealed the deal on the Odyssey or Sienna due to general features and overall quality. The Freestar and T & C were terrible on the bumpy street with both having an unsettled ride. The Ford, that had less than 300 miles on the odometer, rattled like rocks in a tin can on the same street. There were rattles in the DCX. Matter of fact, whenever I do rent DCX vans they are generally solid feeling and rattle free so maybe this was an exception.

    I bought my Odessey in large part due to the opinion survey test drives and a head to head comparision with the Sienna. As late as last night my wife commented on how much nicer she thought the Odyssey rode when compared to a Sienna XLE. I think the Sienna's interior is the nicest on the market.

    We were invited to an invitation only test drive and marketing show for the new 2007 Tahoe last night at the Southfork Ranch. The Tahoe is large and well finished, drove nice but had considerable less room inside than both your T & C and my Odyssey at almost twice the price.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    DESIGN FLAW. Absurd that the rear hatch cannot be unlocked with the power door locks if the battery gets run down.
    2006 Sienna has another design flaw: No outside place to use a key to unlock the rear hatch (liftgate). The hatch must be unlocked by either the key fob or the power door lock mechanism.
    Can a person unlock the rear liftgate of a 2006 Odyssey from the outside with a key?
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I think comparing the Dodge/Chryslers to Honda and Toyota is like comparing apples to oranges.

    I think it's a given the Dodge/Chryslers are not as nice, or have as many features as either the Honda or Toyota. It's like comparing a Caddy to a Chevy Capri. We all know Chrysler doesn't make a top end car since they quit making Imperials. And they don't make a top end minivan (yet).

    When thinking of buying a minivan, you have to know about what your willing to pay for one and understand what you want to do with it.

    Are you wanting to buy the best looking vans inside, that have most of the latest safety features? Are you going to use it mostly to haul around family and friends? Then Honda or Toyota would be a great choice if your willing to spend the extra seven to eight thousand to get it.

    On the other hand, if you want to spend a lot less, still get a pretty safe van, use it to haul not only friends and family, but almost anything else you can get in a minivan and be able to do it in a minutes notice and still have a lot of goodies that only the higher priced vans have, than you can't beat the Chrysler/Dodge minivans. They may not match the beauty of a Honda and Toyota inside, but they're every bit as nice on the outside and they have plenty of goodies on them to make using your van more pleasant. From built in child seats, dual sliding doors, electric rear hatch, power everything, over head computer that will even open and close your garage doors, tell you the temperature outside, direction your headed in and MPG used
  • nzchrisnzchris Posts: 1
    Phew there's a lot of threads and details with head-to-head comparisons of similar year models in the years that they came out. But am I wrong in that we don't look at models a few years back with the benefit of hindsight?

    I would love to get you'll thoughts on minivans a few years older- say 2002-2004- and come up with the best for reliability, and features that have stood the test of time. Well a couple of years at least.

    Love to see some feedback so I can make a decision for my next purchase as I like most ppl cant afford a brand new off the lot model.
    Thanks
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    "On the other hand, if you want to spend a lot less, still get a pretty safe van,"

    Consumer Reports stated that the frontal offset crash test was not that great on DCX. It is excellent on Odyssey and Sienna. That type of crash is real world not the frontal barrier used by NHTSA.
  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    It can be unlocked from inside the Odyssey. You will see a small square cut out that you can pop open with your key and then pull the lever to open the liftgate, it is located at the base of the liftgate right in the center. The Odyssey only has one key hole and that is in the driver's door.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Well nzchris, your still in luck with the Chrysler/Dodge minivans. You could buy a 2002-2004 van and get a good one in any of those years from Chrysler and still pay thousands less than the Honda/Toyota. Now if you were going back much farther,(like 1990 and back) I would suggest you buy a Toyota minivan, as Chrysler and Honda both had problems with their transmissions back then. Your pretty safe with any of the three in those years. Although I think Toyota had some problems with the engine slugging up, although I am not sure of the years they were doing it.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    It can be unlocked from inside the Odyssey. You will see a small square cut out that you can pop open with your key and then pull the lever to open the liftgate, it is located at the base of the liftgate right in the center. The Odyssey only has one key hole and that is in the driver's door.

    You mean you have to bend over the third row seats to unlock the hatch? Wow, they didn't give that much thought did they?
  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    Marine you and I go round and round on the issue of Caravan vs. Odyssey but I'd rather have to do that then Live or Die with a "PRETTY SAFE VAN" in the Dodge. By the way what does PRETTY SAFE mean? ;)
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Check the insurance rates on the minivans. Crash tests show only the results of a deliberate crash into a set barrier without any variables concerning other vehicles on the road, road conditions, etc.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Not hardly.

    I guess i'm not entitled to my opinion, just you huh? We do think highly of ourselves don't we? I just used the door "thunk" as an example of another stupid statement concerning an atribute one could quibble over.

    I know you read about the time in October of 2004, when I was randomly selected for an opinion poll to actually drive four minivans back to back over a six mile course of city streets, freeway and bad roads (although they are hard to find in Texas ).

    You might want to get a job at Car & Driver, Motortrends or better yet, CR!!!!! You're such an expert on Minivans. I'm thankful we have you to educate us all with your unbiased opinions and vast knowledge....from the bottom of my heart - THANK YOU!!!!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    I have driven a 2001 Odd EX MANY more than 6 miles and it is NOT as quiet or comfortable as either the 2002 GC Sport or 2002 T&C LX. Furthermore, it is NOT as quiet as a 1999 GC SE that I also have driven more than once on a course much longer than 6 miles.
    The 2006 Odyssey did NOT perform as well in a 15 mile test drive as did the 2004 Sienna...but each performed better than my 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L.
    The Odyssey is a nice minivan that caused DC and others to add more features such as the "Magic Seat". Honda could not sell many Odyssey minivans until they made the 1999 Odyssey that copied the size and many nice features Chrysler had introduced to the minivan market over the years.
    Isn't it nice that Honda finally made a satisfactory minivan....after Chrysler controlled the market for over 20 years?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I would be the first one to admit the Honda is much nicer than the Dodge minivan inside. But I will also say the Dodge does have a high quality thunk to their doors

    I believe the Honda "thunk" depends on the model. I remember being in a friend's new Ody....LX model, and the doors sounded tinny. On this Touring I tried to look at, they sounded like my DCX exactly....nice solid thunk. Must have to do with added sound insulation and leather trim on door panels???

    I personally didn't want a high end minivan...not for my lifestyle of camping, dogs, windsurfing etc....plus, I didn't want to spend over $20k for my "beater" van as I joke with friends. One year and 10k trouble free miles later, I know I made the right choice for me.

    True both Japanese models are much nicer inside and offer some features Chrysler doesn't, but owners are paying for the extra quality and features. I wouldn't use "quality" so liberally here....not from what I see on these forums!
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Marine you and I go round and round on the issue of Caravan vs. Odyssey but I'd rather have to do that then Live or Die with a "PRETTY SAFE VAN" in the Dodge. By the way what does PRETTY SAFE mean?

    Well Jpnewt, as safe as most any minivan could be before stability control came out. Granted that helps, but remember less than two years ago, Honda didn't have it either and I bet that wouldn't have prevented you from buying a Honda van or another car, instead of buying a car that had it on it. Now that Honda has it, you think everyone should buy a Honda no matter if it meets our other needs or not. Were Honda's vehicles unsafe before 2005? Were we all buying unsafe vans? Of course not.

    Honda does not meet my needs. I bought it to haul family, grand kids and stuff I need when working around my or my sister's house, or to carry home furniture or appliance I buy to replace things that wear out. I also find my van being used to carry an electric wheel chair and electric scooter. Something I hadn't planned on when I bought my van. Things 95% of Honda owners would never carry in their minivans. Why should I buy something that doesn't meet my needs just to get a safety feature that has never been on vans before. It doesn't make my van any less safe than it, or other's ever were before.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Were Honda's vehicles unsafe before 2005? Were we all buying unsafe vans? Of course not.

    If stability control was the be all and end all of safety, why doesn't Honda offer it, even as an option, on it's new 2006 Civics?
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    "Consumer Reports stated that the frontal offset crash test was not that great on DCX. It is excellent on Odyssey and Sienna. That type of crash is real world not the frontal barrier used by NHTSA."

    Full width frontal crashes are at least as common as frontal offset crashes. Both the IIHS and NHTSA crash tests are complementary. Neither one supercedes the other- ideally you'd have a vehicle that does well in all the available tests.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    "Check the insurance rates on the minivans. Crash tests show only the results of a deliberate crash into a set barrier without any variables concerning other vehicles on the road, road conditions, etc."

    Those other variables are what make these a poor predictor of crashworthiness. Insurance rates, like death and injury statistics, have a large element of driver profile in them. That is why even corporate twins often have different rates and varying statistics, even though the vehicles are identical.

    Try this calculator for starters- plug in some of the corporate "twins" like the GM minivans and note that none of the four are the same...

    http://moneycentral.msn.com/insure/autorisk.aspx
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