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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    I'd say you should be able to get it for 20-21k. Offer 19k and see if they bite. Check out the Smart Shoppers board and look at the "Purchasing Stategies" discussion for some tips.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    For some strange reason, I'm wondering what kind of minivan Yugo could produce. No need to, the free market place took care of them!!! HISTORY!!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    And calling it the "Magic Seat" was a marketing coup. :shades:
    ALL minivans now must include the split 3rd row fold into the floor introduced by Toyota in the 2004 Sienna to be competitive.
    The Power Liftgate introduced by Chrysler in 2001 models was ridiculed by others...but now the others also brag about their power liftgate (either standard or optional). ;)
    When will all minivan makers copy Chrysler's flat fold into the floor 2nd row seats?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    When will all minivan makers copy Chrysler's flat fold into the floor 2nd row seats?

    Nissan for 2008 I've heard. Stow N Go won't be easy to implement without a major chasis redesigns. Will Honda, which uses the same basic platform for Oddy, Ridgeline, MDX and Pilot be able to redesign it for Stow N Go while still using it for the others? It won't be easy for the competition. Will Toyota/Honda/Hyundai which sell far fewer minivans make the investment?

    Stay Tuned :)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    DCX Minivan Quality

    Note that the DCX Windsor plant tied Toyota for second place even!!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Also noticed Kia as a brand is near the bottom of the middle. Since the Kia Rio is tied for first place with Suzuki Aerio in the sub-compact category, which Kia models are bad enough to bring the entire Kia brand so low? :confuse:
    Toyota motor company with # 2 and # 4 rate much higher than ANY company. Porsche may be # 1, but look at the parent company Volkswagen rated 35 out of 37.
    Glad to see Chrysler doing so well.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    Pretty impressive for T&C to be #1 minivan in this competitive space, and American vehicles take the top 3 slots. Shocking, actually
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Posts: 265
    One of the most important point for a mini van is to have dealer support while traveling nation wide.

    Second. is safety features.

    Third, is MPG's. This is one feature that needs improving. What about a diesel?
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Great news For Chrysler and General Motors. Bares out what some of us Chrysler/Dodge minivan owners have been saying about our minivans. My 2005 has been to the shop once, last week to check on a recall of a possible crimped hose. That's been it in over 18 months of owning it. Had that checked when I had the oil changed. I was out in less than an hour.

    Van
    1. Chrysler Town & Country
    2. GMC Savana
    3. Dodge Caravan
  • estoesto Posts: 136
    Third, is MPG's. This is one feature that needs improving. What about a diesel?

    What about a hybrid minivan? I claim ignorance on this topic (haven't searched for news stories). Anyone here have any insights? Where would the batteries go?
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    In a newspaper version of the article, Bob Lutz was quoted as criticizing "systems where you gather everything under one control and then you are asked to scroll through menu after menu trying to do things".

    Bob Lutz succinctly stated how I feel about the Odyssey and Sienna controls. I much prefer DaimlerChrysler controls where the stereo has many controls compared to my Sienna where I have to scroll through the entire menu to adjust bass, treble, balance, fade, etc. Same thing with other controls.
    My 02 T&C LX has 3 separate controls on the dash for the rear wiper and washer with a separate stalk for the front wiper and washer on the steering column while the Sienna puts the controls for the rear wiper/washer on the same stalk as the front wipers/washers.
    The 02 T&C has a separate control for front fan speed plus power on/off with a separate control for turning A/C on and another separate control for recycling the air.
    The Sienna temperature control knob turns on A/C and recycle when it is turned to the extreme left. The recycling can be turned off by turning the knob back to the right but to turn off A/C I must depress another button.
    DaimlerChrysler design is superior to that of either the Sienna or Odyssey...but unfortunately the fine folks of Consumer Reports do not seem to be able to learn the more completely controlled DC system so they bad mouth DC for having "confusing controls". :shades:
  • dc_driverdc_driver Posts: 712
    If adding Stow N Go results in having less comfortable seats in the second row, then Honda should stick with their current setup. I found the second row seats in the 06 T&C Touring model to be much more uncomfrotable vs Toyota/Honda (and Kia).

    My 06 Odyssey already has storage in the second row under the floor, and we have not even used it yet. For me, I do not see the value in adding even more storage under the floor unless it did not sacrifice seat comfort....
  • dc_driverdc_driver Posts: 712
    I understand what you are saying, but I actually prefer the scroll through controls in cases where I do not make frequent adjustments. The reason being is that I rarely adjust bass, treble, fade, stations, etc once I get it set. If it were a control that I was using every day, then I agree, the scroll through options take a little more time. One other option that is almost a must have for me now, is audio controls on the steering wheel. Personally, I feel this is more than a safety feature than anything (actually know somebody who totalled their Mustang when they were trying to change radio stations and lost control of their car when they veered into some gravel on the side of the road).

    As for the wiper controls, I prefer having them all on one stalk (maybe because all of my other vehicles have been setup that way).

    I love the automatic climate control in our Odyssey. I think it has the perfect layout, and has separate controls for fan speed, recycle, separate controls for each passenger, and separate controls for the second row.
  • sc00bssc00bs Posts: 87
    I had narrowed down my search to a Toyota Sienna ,Dodge Grand Caravan, or a GM sedan with the 3.8L engine.

    So I found a Toyota Sienna. It is a 98 and has 54,000 miles, its an XLE. They are asking 12,995 (over edmunds so some negotiations are needed there, edmunds lists the car in clean condition at 10,890). Its a retail sale.

    Anyway, here is the part I need some help with. The carfax report lists two owners (not ideal, but..). The first owner it was a lease vehicle in California and Wyoming. The second ower was in Colorado ( here were I live).

    I have read some bad things about California cars and their emissions equipment being different and more expensive to repair. Is this something I should be concerned with, or should it not be a big deal???

    The other question is pertaining to the sludge issue. This car has no service records at all with it. Toyota said they showed nothing in their records on the car at all (other than factory installed options ) and just said that if the car should get sludge Toyota deals with the issues on a case by case basis and that they would require service records on the car in order to complete any repairs with reimbursement on the issue. I asked if there was a mileage limit and the person really didn't say much, just the above statement again (rude person too). Should I use this to my advantage in negotiating a deal, or will this have no impact on the sale price of the car???

    Im really afraid of getting a sludge monster, especially with such low miles on it. It just hasn't had the chance to be sludged yet, lol. What would you guys be looking at during an inspection (and yes it will go to a mechanic)?
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    DaimlerChrysler design is superior to that of either the Sienna or Odyssey...but unfortunately the fine folks of Consumer Reports do not seem to be able to learn the more completely controlled DC system so they bad mouth DC for having "confusing controls".

    I remember when evaluating the Dodge, Honda and Toyota minivan, the tester at CR said the Dodge controls were (busy). What in the heck did he mean by that? I like the way Dodge has them set up. I forgot, they are for Asian cars and vans.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    If adding Stow N Go results in having less comfortable seats in the second row, then Honda should stick with their current setup. I found the second row seats in the 06 T&C Touring model to be much more uncomfrotable vs Toyota/Honda (and Kia).

    My 06 Odyssey already has storage in the second row under the floor, and we have not even used it yet. For me, I do not see the value in adding even more storage under the floor unless it did not sacrifice seat comfort....


    Chrysler middle seats are firmer that's true. Uncomfortable? not a bit. If you think your under floor space that Honda gives you is enough and don't even use that, you chose the right van. That sure isn't my case. I use all the space I can get in my van. But I also use it for a lot more than seating people. It's also a working van.

    http://www.carspace.com/marine2
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Excellent response which also explains why I prefer the DC setup.
    Each of us prefers the setup that we have been used to. Maybe I will like all controls on one stalk if I can ever get used to this method. :shades:
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Chrysler middle seats are firmer that's true.

    Some people like cushy seats but truly comfortable seats for long trips are firmer like that found on many German luxury cars that support better.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    "Some people like cushy seats but truly comfortable seats for long trips are firmer like that found on many German luxury cars that support better. "

    Firm and supportive are not necessarily synonymous. Two flat slabs of rock at right angles are very firm, but neither supportive nor comfortable.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    "Some people like cushy seats but truly comfortable seats for long trips are firmer like that found on many German luxury cars that support better. "

    Firm and supportive are not necessarily synonymous. Two flat slabs of rock at right angles are very firm, but neither supportive nor comfortable.


    I hope your not even trying to suggest the seats in the Dodge/Chrysler are like that.

    If you have seen my web sight, my Sister parked her black 2006 Chrysler next to mine. She came out here with her husband, my brother and her son from Ohio. Over 4,000 mile trip up and back with no complaints of those seats at all. It seems the only ones that complain they are uncomfortable are the ones that don't own a Chrysler/Dodge.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    It seems you suggested it, not me.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Firm doesn't always mean comfortable, but my extremely firm Honda Accord seats are the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in, much better than the soft, flat seats from the Suburban I used to ride in a good bit (Leather, 1999 Suburban). Much more enveloping and comfy in my car, despite the fact that my seats are harder.

    Firm isn't always bad, it just requires more attention to seat design than does a "fluffy" seat.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Agree. My Volkswagen Bus and Beetle would not qualify as a German luxury car but each had firm seats that were comfortable for a long trip for the very reason you stated. ;)
  • dc_driverdc_driver Posts: 712
    "Chrysler middle seats are firmer that's true. Uncomfortable? not a bit. If you think your under floor space that Honda gives you is enough and don't even use that, you chose the right van. That sure isn't my case. I use all the space I can get in my van. But I also use it for a lot more than seating people. It's also a working van."

    Okay, "uncomfortable" was a little strong. Less comfortable than the competition is a better way of saying it. That fact that you use your van as a work van definitely helps me to understand why you like Stow N Go so much. I would have picked the DCX vans over the Toyota and Honda as well if there was a constant need to take the second row seats out...

    Hey, I just went to your carspace site and noticed your birthday is June 18... That is my birthday as well :)

    Small world..
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    No disagreement. Firm can be comfortable or not comfortable. Depends on the seat, depends on the support, depends on the person. So, each person has to decide if something is firm like a German luxury car, firm like a rock or something in between. The point is, German luxury car isn't the only possibility and some people may not find that German luxury car to be comfortable, anyway.

    Not sure what the big deal is. If seat comfort is a big issue and you find your seats comfortable, be happy with your choice. If someone else doesn't agree or finds another seat more comfortable, so what? No harm in telling people the differences. They're gonna check them out in person at some point, anyway.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Depends on the seat, depends on the support, depends on the person. So, each person has to decide if something is firm like a German luxury car, firm like a rock or something in between.

    A friend of mine that works for GM told me something very interesting. He worked in seating a few years ago and GM was trying to improve their seats. When a GM engineer needs seats for a new vehicle, many times they almost design the seat from scratch for their specific vehicle. VW for example uses a basic frame/base for EVERY seat design for VW/Audi/Seat etc....then build on top of that base maybe adding motors or lumbar etc..but it's not a total redesign. That's why you get comfortable seats in a Jetta/Golf, even at $15k.
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    sc00bs,

    It doesn't sound good - no service records, was a lease vehicle. The 1998 Toyota models were ones prone to sludge, even when owners could prove reasonable oil changes. Lease vehicles tend to suffer more abuse and less frequent oil changes, so the possibility that this vehicle has or will sludge is much greater.

    There is a Toyota sludge warranty, but it is for only 8 years and unlimitedm miles, so yours is up sometime this year, and to get the warranty repair, you have to prove reasonable maintenance. Cost to repair a sludged engine is in the $3000 - $4000 range at best.

    If you have your heart sold on this vehicle, you need to see if the seller (I am assuming this is at a dealership) will offer a warranty against sludge OR have a mechanic you trust pull the valve cover to see if it is clean (the only way to check for sludge with certainty) -- this may cost $100 or so. If you try to use this as a negotiating tool, I would try to get the price significantly below the asking in order to cover a potential high $$$ engine repair.

    My advice would be to not buy a used Toyota of this vintage unless the seller can produce a full maintenance history.

    Scoti
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    When all seats are the same, there will be a lot of uncomfortable passengers. I'm thankful mattress manufacturers aren't so shortsighted that they think one-type-fits-all is a good idea.
  • sc00bssc00bs Posts: 87
    Scoti,

    Thanks so much for your reply. I think im going to take your words of wisdom. I was on that ether high, needed someone to knock some sense into me :)

    What years are good for toyota siennas ???

    Well its back to the hunt :)
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Hey, I just went to your carspace site and noticed your birthday is June 18... That is my birthday as well

    Small world..


    Didn't realize I put that down anywhere. Yes, we are getting close to adding another one on. Happy Birthday to you in case I don't get on around then.
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