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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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  • So for example, I should post my negative Honda experiences, even though I don't currently own one?

    I'd hope so. Go ahead and post your bad Honda experiences, it's only fair! It would certainly help those searching for a vehicle that might consider Honda. This also isn't necessarily restricted to "New" vans, is it? I don't think so, or we wouldn't have models on the comparison list that aren't even made any more (Venture). I recall a woman shopping for a van for $15,000 (used) in here not long ago after wrecking her Caravan.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I'd hope so. Go ahead and post your bad Honda experiences, it's only fair

    I doubt whining about experiences in the 90s would be to anyone's benefit, and wouldn't be relevant to current models. It's not good to hang on to negative energy, over something like a manufactured vehicle by any OEM.
  • estoesto Posts: 136
    Can I get traction control and stability control in any 2007 model DCX minivan? I seem to remember that I could not in 2006 models. Has the picture changed for 2007?
  • aaron_taaron_t Posts: 301
    TRaction control is standard on DGC SXT, Chrysler T&C Touring and Limite models. It is an option on some (maybe all) lower trim levels. Stability control is not availible on any DCX minivan before the 2008 model year.
  • So now posting previous experiences is whining? Someone should tell the operators/hosts of all the boards that all cars should be praised, and that speaking of past experiences is moot.

    It's not good to hang on to negative energy

    Negative energy? What's next, my aura needs cleansing?

    per dictionary.com = Whining - to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way

    Was I showing self-pity or "sniveling?" I was stating the facts, nothing more. I don't see the "whining" in there, just stating facts, as reposted below.

    We have had 2 Chryslers, both of which we had for less than a year, mainly because between the two of them, they spent 7 months in a repair shop (transmissions, suspension rebuilds, rattles galore). My father's last Chrysler was a Sebring Convertible; he hated it so badly after a year that he sold it, and all he took such a hit in resale that he could only go to a Civic EX, but he was oh-so-happy to do so just to dump the Chrysler. The reason he got rid of the Sebring? It had over 35,000 miles on it and the warranty would expire at 36k. He couldn't afford to do all the work once the warranty expired.

    Hopefully Chrysler has come a long LONG LONG way in reliability, because they were at the bottom of the pool back when we had them.


    I don't see the whining here, sorry. Maybe I'm overlooking it.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    So now posting previous experiences is whining? Someone should tell the operators/hosts of all the boards that all cars should be praised, and that speaking of past experiences is moot.

    It's not good to hang on to negative energy

    Negative energy? What's next, my aura needs cleansing?

    per dictionary.com = Whining - to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way

    Was I showing self-pity or "sniveling?" I was stating the facts, nothing more. I don't see the "whining" in there, just stating facts, as reposted below.

    We have had 2 Chryslers, both of which we had for less than a year, mainly because between the two of them, they spent 7 months in a repair shop (transmissions, suspension rebuilds, rattles galore). My father's last Chrysler was a Sebring Convertible; he hated it so badly after a year that he sold it, and all he took such a hit in resale that he could only go to a Civic EX, but he was oh-so-happy to do so just to dump the Chrysler. The reason he got rid of the Sebring? It had over 35,000 miles on it and the warranty would expire at 36k. He couldn't afford to do all the work once the warranty expired.

    Hopefully Chrysler has come a long LONG LONG way in reliability, because they were at the bottom of the pool back when we had them.

    I don't see the whining here, sorry. Maybe I'm overlooking it.

    Looks like more Whining and Quibbling to me!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I've never checked, but maybe Edmund's has a forum for people to whine, moan, badmouth and complain about OEM issues they, their parents or some relative had in the past 50 years. Help people vent etc...
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    No stability control for 07, should be standard on the 08s. I'm hearing great things about the 08s....6 spd auto with overdrive, heated/cooled seats and cupholders, power Stow N Go, stability with sway control (for those of us who trailer RVs), and the coolest thing...LED lighting for interior (will distribute light very evenly in interior).
  • estoesto Posts: 136
    hearing great things about the 08s....

    Sounds very nice, but it'll be a year too late for me. We'll be looking for a van next spring/summer. I think my only viable choice is an Odyssey (Sienna gets expensive with stability control, I don't yet trust Kia/Hyundai). Or will Toyota have stability control standard on the '07 Sienna? Or will the DCX 08s be available early?
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Was I showing self-pity or "sniveling"?

    Well, since you asked... yes! You've been "whining" whenever someone has posted anything negative about DCX without including anything positive. You're taking the intent of thegraduates post the wrong way. As a unbiased impartial observer, I see nothing wrong with his posts.

    Also(nonsnivel), if you are going to quote someone in your post, please use italics or bold print to indicate it. ;)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Hey Jip, you haven't been observing to closely. I never made the "Was I showing self-pity or "sniveling"" comment and I haven't a clue what quote you're referring to. If someone wants to berate an OEM for problems over a decade ago....do it somewhere else, not on a "Minivan Shopping" forum please!! (I hope my quote usuage is acceptable!). We all have our horror tales, they belong somewhere else.
  • I never made the "Was I showing self-pity or "sniveling"" comment and I haven't a clue what quote you're referring to.

    To clarify, he's referring to the definition of "whining" which I outlined in an earlier post.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 978
    primarily because they came here to read about minivan shopping, and don't have the slightest interest in reading an argument about who said what. Let's get back to discussing minivan shopping. I'll be removing any further posts containing personal and/or off-topic remarks.

    ClaireS, Host
    Coupes & Convertibles | Vans & Minivans
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  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Thanks for clarifying graduate, and sorry I misquoted you dennistc. But, as I posted, your lack of italics in the post I was referring to made it difficult to follow who said what.

    If someone wants to berate an OEM for problems over a decade ago...

    This forum isn't just for new van purchases. Many people come here for information on older models. I'm sure the current Chrysler vans share many of the same components they did five and even ten years ago. So, giving the cons (if that is all to give) would be useful information to someone wanting to buy a new or older minivan.

    An update on my 2004 Mazda MPV LX with a little over 20,000 miles. We (family) have been very happy with the vans reliability(knock on wood) and performance thus far. I enjoy the quiet and comfortable ride (when the kids aren't in it) as well as the car like handling characteristics. My wife and I are still getting compliments from friends and strangers alike on it's sporty good looks and styling.
    We hope to keep this van for another five or six years, then perhaps buy a new minivan... they just can't be beat for their utility. ;)
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Sounds very nice, but it'll be a year too late for me. We'll be looking for a van next spring/summer."

    It is POSSIBLE that the redesigned '08 DCX vans would be on sale by late next spring/summer. It may depend on how sales of the '06 models are going (still strong from what I can tell).

    You might also consider that the '08 models will be the very first year of a major redesign of the DCX vans. This may or may not give you pause. The first year of the Ody redesign ('05) was not without any hitches (although our '05 Ody has been fine).

    Can't speak for the '07 Sienna and how they will be equipped (perhaps hansienna will chime in). Agree with you regarding the pricing; when my wife and I were in the market a couple of years ago, stability control and side curtain airbags were on my personal 'must have' list. We actually preferred the Sienna (marginally) over the Ody; however, to get a Sienna equipped the way WE wanted (comparably to an Ody EX-L) would have cost us a few $k more.

    Good luck with your shopping.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    The 3.5L V6 rated 266 HP and 245 lb-ft Torque will be the only change for the 2007 Sienna vs 2006 (that I have read about). BTW, there are rumors the new DC 4.0L V6 rated 255 HP and 265 lb-ft Torque with 6 speed AT in the 2007 Pacifica will be an option for the 2008 GC and T&C. (I prefer having more torque than HP.) ;)
    The 215 HP with 222 lb-ft Torque in the 2006 Sienna LE and the 180 HP with 210 lb-ft Torque in the 2002 T&C LX have been more than enough power for my driving.
    All 2006 Odysseys have been sold out in our area and there are very few 2006 DaimlerChrysler minivans remaining. The 2007 GC SXT and 2007 T&C Touring have the exact same prices as the late 2006 models...except a person gets the $ 4,000 Factory Incentive ONLY on the 2006 models.
    One Honda dealer is offering 2007 Odyssey EX for just over $ 28,000 (before tax, title, etc.). My next minivan will be an Odyssey EX (cloth) or a GC SXT so I pay very little attention to anything about the 2007 Sienna. :shades:
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "One Honda dealer is offering 2007 Odyssey EX for just over $ 28,000 (before tax, title, etc.)."

    To be blunt - that's a HORRIBLE price.

    Why not go online and check out prices at some other (larger) markets? I did that when we bought our Ody - flew to a different city and had the Honda salesman pick us up at the airport. Heck, you could even have a nice little mini-vacation driving your car back home if you go far enough (we were only about 3 hours away).
  • aaron_taaron_t Posts: 301
    I would really wait until more info is available on the 08 DCX vans. Not that you'd necessarily be interested buying one, but it is a major redesign that may bring some features that intrigue you and competitors enough to offer shortly.

    You're prepared to lose $5k on your 2006 Sienna. Are you prepared to do it again if you find out the 08 DCX vans are the bomb? I don't know that it will be the bomb, but I don't know that it won't.

    There is a $1500 rebate on the 2007 DCX vans through Oct 2. There are plenty of 2006 DGC SXT's left over in Detroit if that still intrigues you. Also, you should be able buy a DCX minivan @ $1500-2000 under invoice (then subtract rebates) in metro Detroit. Seems most dealers have extra dealer cash on the table. I got $2k under employee price on my 2005 T&C. I got $1500 under employee price on my 2005 Dakota. The newspaper ads I read often show sales prices that imply selling under employee prices too. In short, you should be able to buy a 2006 DGC SXT (no options) for right around $20k or T&C Touring for $750 more in metro Detroit. I read ads for $19k & $20k for employees and employee discount is about $1k under invoice on these vans. I have no idea where you live, but transportation costs if you are willing to drive one home might be worth investigating. All DCX employees were just given (email 9/22/06) another number to give out to anyone. if you can find one of them to give you the extra $1k off, even better. That's what Dennis used a couple years ago.

    If you want a 2007 DCX, wait. I have the incentives list from Nov 2005 through Feb 2006. Nov was $3500 on 2006 MY vans, Dec - Feb was $4k combined if financed through DCX. That was the time to buy, when 9 months later the clearance incentives are only equal on the same model year.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    EXCELLENT Advice. The 2008 GC SXT will probably be much nicer than either the Ody or Sienna. As it now looks, the 2008 DC minivans will have a 4.0L V6 with 6 speed AT that trumps BOTH the Odyssey and Sienna. It is risky waiting until the 2008 GC SXT arrives because the dealers may not have a very good inventory of 2007 models on the lots.
    My niece came to see us in her 2005 Ody EX and I VERY closely compared it with our 2006 Sienna. Each has advantages but each also LACKS many nice features I had on my 2002 T&C LX.
    Ody advantages: Most comfortable seats with most leg room all passengers + seating for 8 if desired. Ody has automatic separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger. The cheap cloth covering on front armrests is filthy already in my niece's 2005 Ody.
    Sienna advantages: Most attractive instrument panel with MOST cargo space behind 3rd row + air intake for rear AC/heater fan is high on the right rear behind the seat. The Ody air intake is not much higher than floor level...which greatly reduces the useable cargo area. Sienna also has D-4-3-2-L for controlling the 5 speed AT ;) while the Ody has only D-2-L :cry: while GC has only D-3-L. :cry:
    GC advantages: Overhead console with compass/outside temperature and trip computer (Sienna also has but Ody does NOT). GC Stow 'N Go offers much greater ease for hauling large items if desired and GC SXT can also purchased for much lower price. GC has much better controls for the windshield wipers and washers and much better radio and stereo. :shades:
  • Sienna also has D-4-3-2-L for controlling the 5 speed AT while the Ody has only D-2-L

    Actually, the odyssey has a "D3" button, making it a functional D-3-2-1 configuration, not just D-2-1. The only thing you can't select is for it to run through the gears up to 4th only.

    In 1, it obviously stays in 1st
    In 2, like all Hondas, it stays in 2 (quite handy in my Accord during an ice storm 3 years ago).
    In "D3", it will run 1-2-3, operating as a functional 3-speed auto.

    Thought this might be helpful info to those of you contemplating an Odyssey.

    You can almost see the D3 button in this picture; it's at the little bulge below the big chrome gearshift button.

    image

    GC advantages: Overhead console with compass/outside temperature and trip computer (Sienna also has but Ody does NOT).

    Well, sort-of. The Odyssey has storage overhead (for sunglasses) as well as a neat 'conversation mirror' which is handy for looking at kids in the back seat built into the sunglass holder. It also features homelink into the overhead console, as well as an ambient light to shine dimly (not distracting) at night on the tray table.

    There is a temperature gauge in the gauge pod (cycle through things like Odometer, Oil Life, etc...) which can be viewed at the same time as the trip-meter in the gauge pod. I also believe the compass is a dealer accessory (built into the rear-view mirror perhaps). I could be wrong about that last detail, but everything else is definitely true. Check one out...

    The only thing I think you are left missing is a mpg display, but from what I've seen in other cars that have those (Girlfriend's mom has a Lexus GX470) they are never as accurate as doing the calculations yourself at the pump.

    image

    I say all this to let you know, if you do get an Odyssey, you may not be missing out on all you think. Heh, I just showed my aunt the remote-roll down windows last fall, and she has had the car since December 2004 and didn't even know it did that. There are lots of neat little surprises (like the conversation mirror)on the Odyssey, if you know where to look.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    2007 Sienna 3.5L V6 rated 266 HP and 245 lb-ft Torque vs 244 HP and 240 lb-ft Torque of 2007 Odyssey.
    The 4.0L V6 in the 2007 Chrysler Pacifica has 255 HP and 265 lb-ft Torque with 6 speed AT. Another source indicates this engine/transmission combination will be in the 2008 DC minivans that will probably be on sale in a few months (February, 2007). :shades:
    BTW, nice photos posted by thegraduate as well as the D3 button on the Odyssey not generally known by many people. ;)
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,232
    Honda has a dealer accessory for the self-dimming rear-view mirror that includes a compass. The outside temp is in the guage cluster (next to trip odo). The Touring includes a bunch of fuel mpg, dte type gadgets in the MID computer...but not on the EX-L. I've never found the dte, mpg, etc. to be accurate in my previous or current Dodges, so I guess I never got too excited about that feature. I'm a NAV fan so compass is pretty much like cassettes in my book :P

    The only gear you can't lock the Ody into is 4th. I think 4 and 5 are both OD gears and are very close in ratio, so 4 really wouldn't do much anyway.
  • aaron_taaron_t Posts: 301
    While it would be risky to wait until 08 MY DCX vans hit the dealer lots, there should be plenty of information and reviews of pre-production models to get the info on what features they will have. I'll be in the market for a replacement minivan next summer myself, so I've been trying to get all the info I can on the 08 DCX vans. I don't have too much and have a lot of questions still unanswered. I work for an automotive supplier that has one of the 08 DCX vans to test, but it is masked up and I don't personally know the people on that project.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    My company will be supplying some really unique items to the 08 DCX Minivan, I really can't say anything though! I can say they are features that will be copied by others. My only reservations is buying a first model year of any vehicle! Nice thing with 08 DCX Minivan is that many of the major components won't be brand new i.e...new V6/tranny is in producton for Pacifica. The power Stow N Go will be a hit, and the cup warmer/coolers too!!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Can you say when your company will be sending these unique items to DC?
    I was told by a sales manager at a local DC dealership that the 2008 GC and 2008 T&C will be in dealer showrooms in late January or early February 2007...in like manner that the redesigned 2005 models appeared in early 2006. :shades:
  • Sorry hansienna, but the dealers know nothing about the intro date for the '08 vans. They are totally in the dark, I promise. I hope it's early '07, but I doubt it.
  • fx35awdfx35awd Posts: 218
    Yeah, I thought the new model release usually comes out in September and possibly as early as July, but I have not seen it being release in January. Who knows they might say that to get you down to their dealership and possibly convince you to buy an '07 with all the available attractive incentives that your temptation might give in. I would call them first or tell them to give you a call when it comes in so you will not waste your time. Just my suggestion. :)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I was just told by DCX engineer that introduction is set for 07 North American Autoshow in Detroit, in January with production of summer 07.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    I was at the DC dealership getting an oil and oil filter change for my daughter's T&C LX and while there I asked a sales manager when the 2008 models would arrive. He did not try to high pressure me or sell me a new vehicle. ;)
  • Sales managers at car dealerships generally have a longevity of about 3-6 months before they get blown out. They no nothing about product; only how to make money off you. I have known a few long-serving sales managers, but not many. Most are completely ignorant of product knowledge.
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