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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • temp409temp409 Posts: 55
    So all kia sedonnas work first jerk all toyota sienna work first jerk all ford winstar work first jerk all of honda odyssey work first jerk, and well then the ONLY ones that dont in the mini van world are-(dodge caravan) and my daughter has her face smashed- isn't that enough for some people to come to the conclusion that the only ones that FAIL the jerk test ALSO fail the wreck test. It failed for us but somehow you think it may magically work for you? Thats a big risk my daughter could have died.
  • ishanbishanb Posts: 5
    Please, let's move on. temp409 either can't or won't accept the explanation that the Dodge Caravan may use a different type of seatbelt tensioner system for the rear seats compared to the front and that testing with a "jerk" is not appropriate for certain kind of tensioner systems.

    Enough already.
  • boxwrenchboxwrench Posts: 55
    temp409

    You failed to mention in all your posts about seatbelts if the air bag(s) deployed in your crash? I'm assuming your DC was a '91 or newer. Just curious that in 35mph frontal crash, the air bag should have deployed.
    Some how I survived over 55 years of driving and a lot of those years were without SEAT BELTS, Air Bags, Stability Control, and a lot of other safety things that are on cars nowadays. Maybe it's because we didn't drive as FAST at today's drivers. 'Course, there were fewer cars on the road then, but also many more 2-lane roads, and not many 4-lanes.

    Hope your Daughter is improving everyday. I'm sure when it is her turn to start driving, she will remember the accident, and be a SAFE driver.

    Regards
    Boxwrench
  • vbhvbh Posts: 3
    SEEKING INFO:
    (1) 2007 model Odyssey or Sienna: Are these vans going to have the T & C middle seat fold-away capability?
    (2) Any after-market protective liner (or such like)to attach to mid & rear seats for the folded-down seat position?
    Purpose is to protect seats when van used to haul materials and they are shoved/pushed into "cargo" space.
    Thanks. Mark
  • temp409temp409 Posts: 55
    It crushed in the the front drivers corner airbags worked perfect front seatbelts worked perfect. I loved that van would of never wanted another until we wrecked and she was hurt so bad for NO GOOD REASON we were only going about 35 and skidded about 15 or 20 ft befour hitting.If anyone should of gotten hurt I would of thought it would have been me or her dad up front thats the only part that got any damage but because the lap belt held and her shoulder belt didn't is why only her face and head got hurt on that handle on back of drivers seat. But yep thank God shes doing well now. I don't think its a dirty secret you shouldn't talk about if seatbelts are not working but it seems some do. Any of you guys work for Dodge or something? lol Im not going to suit you so chill out, just fix the faulty rear catching mechanisms in your rear shoulder belts! Then Ill stop whineing.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Neither Honda nor Toyota release advance information. :cry:
  • 97xpresso97xpresso Posts: 249
    As long as people reply to your repetitive posts, you won't stop whineing. Have you contacted an attorney? You have a solid case if your seatbelts were defective. I don't think you will though, because you're afraid you might be wrong.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    On the Grand Caravan/Town and Country DaimlerChrysler twins, when the second row seats are folded into the floor they are completely covered and protected by a separate cover which also covers up the wells and acts as the floor when the seats are not folded down. I don't know of any need for more protection for the seats than that.

    For further protection you could also add additional floor mats, I suppose.

    On our 1996 Caravan which, of course, does not have any seats that fold into the floor, I used black 36" wide vinyl carpet runner to make custom fit mats for the second and third rows. This approach has the advantage that this carpet runner material can easily be cut with a scissors to fit around the seat supports which holds the mat in place nicely and also provides a "wall to wall" mat that protects the carpet completely, unlike aftermarket and OEM mats which are always skimpy and ill fitting. This vinyl matting material is quite inexpensive as well. Can usually be purchased at most big box hardware/lumberyards like Home Depot, Lowes and Menards.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    "Some how I survived over 55 years of driving and a lot of those years were without SEAT BELTS, Air Bags, Stability Control, and a lot of other safety things that are on cars nowadays. Maybe it's because we didn't drive as FAST at today's drivers. 'Course, there were fewer cars on the road then, but also many more 2-lane roads, and not many 4-lanes."

    Consider yourself lucky, like me. Motor vehicle crashes remain the #1 cause of death for kids 1-14 and in age groups all the way to 35. The majority of those fatalities are to unrestrained and improperly restrained passengers.

    I used to ride unrestrained as a kid all the time. I survived. Many others didn't. Highway fatalties have dropped slightly over the years, despite the huge increase in vehicles and miles traveled. Fatality rates have dropped significantly since the late 60s. I'm glad I was never involved in a crash when I was a kid or I probably wouldn't be typing now... My kids have a much better chance and would probably survive some very severe crashes that the front seat passengers would not survive.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    "If anyone should of gotten hurt I would of thought it would have been me or her dad up front thats the only part that got any damage but because the lap belt held and her shoulder belt didn't is why only her face and head got hurt on that handle on back of drivers seat.

    A faulty shoulder belt retractor is a possibility, but there are other possible causes for the injuries you describe. For example, some types of less common crashes, especially those with vertical motion like a rollover, can actually disengage some seatbelt retractor systems. Another possibility is a passenger who was not wearing a properly fitted shoulder belt at the moment of the crash. Most kids 4-8 [and some older] do not fit adult seatbelts very well without a booster or child restraint. Kids often circumvent an uncomfortable shoulder belt by slouching, leaning or putting it behind their back or arm. Correctly used boosters and child restraints can resolve these issues. Similarly, any slack in the shoulder belt before the crash could have led to injuries. Anything from a retractor with low tension to a shoulder belt that got caught in a booster seat guide can be a factor, too.

    It is also a little unusual that lower abdominal injuries were not present, as these are usually the primary type of injury on someone restrained only by a lap belt in a severe frontal crash.

    "I don't think its a dirty secret you shouldn't talk about if seatbelts are not working but it seems some do. Any of you guys work for Dodge or something?"

    You asked a question and received many valid responses about how different types of seatbelt systems function. If you don't choose to believe them, then your best recourse is to have your seatbelts inspected by an independent expert. If you believe your seatbelts are defective, you should pursue a lawsuit and possibly save other children from harm if the defect is more than an isolated failure.

    In that you seem not to trust responses here, I think you would be best served by directing future questions about defects to a lawyer, crash reconstructionist or forensic engineer with expertise in this area. At the very least, you won't have to worry that they are working for Dodge. Plus, they could quickly determine if a faulty retractor was responsible for the injuries or not. A simple tug on the shoulder belt is NOT a conclusive test. You should consult an expert in person if you have doubts or do not understand the issues involved.
  • vbhvbh Posts: 3
    Thanks for the info.

    Honda/Toyota's loss: it's obviously not worth waiting for a pig in a poke.

    Mark
  • vbhvbh Posts: 3
    Thanks for the help/info.

    You all are why I cherish info boards.

    Mark
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "...come to the conclusion that the only ones that FAIL the jerk test ALSO fail the wreck test."

    A failed jerk test tells you NOTHING unless you know what type of locking mechanism you have. So how do you know it 'failed' the wreck test? You are ASSUMING. It's been pointed out that a large number of factors (principal amoung them being IMPROPER restraint) could lead to a seatbelt 'failure'.

    "It failed for us but somehow you think it may magically work for you?"

    You DON'T know that it failed. If you HONESTLY believe that there was a defect, why haven't you retained legal counsel?

    "Thats a big risk my daughter could have died."

    Correct. Precisely my point. Unless you KNOW that the seatbelts failed (and a jerk test will not tell you this), precisely WHO is running the big risk based on an assumption?

    If you put your entire faith in seatbelts which lock when jerked (which you appear to have done), but a seatbelt lock malfunction was NOT the cause of your daughter's injuries, then aren't you RUNNING A RISK of the same thing happening again?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Ma'am,

    I don't work for Dodge, in fact, I would never own a Dodge or Chrysler product due to the various quality problems we had with their transmissions and suspensions over the years. I don't believe that a large, multinational multibillion dollar corporation has sold millions of minivans with rear seatbelts that don't work, or we would have heard about it by now. I believe you had a lemon, or a faulty seatbelt, but I do not believe all Chrysler products (or vans, what have you) have this problem.

    I'm a Honda guy, and will be until they screw up, but for now, this horse is dead, and the further you talk about this, the less credible you seem and instead become just a whiny consumer. It would do you good to give this a rest.

    By the way, it seems to me you'd have bought a used van with more safety features than your Kia, since safety is a high priority.

    Give the issue a rest for a little while; you've made your point, and by now, EVERYONE has read it two or three times at minimum. It's time to move on.
  • temp409temp409 Posts: 55
    I don't know who to contact to get crash test done on rear occupants of caravan and that would probally cost more money than I have. I don't want to file a lawsuit but mom says I should, we rear ended someone on the On ramp,the wreck was our fault although we didn't get a ticket. I feel safe now in the Kia also, I know what the gen3 buckle looks like there are pics. of it on internet at unsafebelts.com so I watch for it I think thats only in older DaimlerChrysler vehicles haven't seen it in any I test drove. I know her seatbelt failed I took it off of her myself after the wreck which was probally stupid since her neck could of been broke but it was just instinct. And she never said her neck hurt only her head and face. Even if I do chose to file a suit and I win alot of money like some others have, they will not recall, I dont care about the money but it seems to me thats ALL DaimlerChrysler cares about and that makes me mad. I just want them to make it safe, DaimlerChrysler didn't recall when they lost with the gen3 buckle. A recall is what I want my neice and nephew ride in a durango that does the same way they are in carseats now so its not as big of a problem until they are under the shoulder strap and depending on it. My daughter is 12 it should of worked. I don't know for sure what I want to do and I realize I am aggrivating people by just whineing on and on. Sorry! Ill try to change the subject - I love my kia but I dread all of the maintence I may be facing according to the kia problems board here but oh well my Daughter jerks the seatbelts says "LOOK mom they catch the FIRST jerk everytime" she feels safe now and so do I. Just maybe if i whine all over the internet, DaimlerChrysler will see fit to put the same catching mechanism that ALL other van companys do in rear.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I don't know who to contact to get crash test done on rear occupants of caravan

    It should be free, it would just involve time, not money (although for most people, time IS money). Call the area rep for Chrysler. I'd be making the Regional reps know that it will take a lot for a civil suit not to be pursued. We can all sympathize with you, but it won't get you anywhere otherwise.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Just out of curiousity -

    What if Dodge had the same type of locking mechanism as all the other manufacturer's and, after the accident and your daughter's injuries, you jerked on the belt and it worked?

    Would you just shrug your shoulders and go on not caring to know why it failed to protect your daughter?

    My point is that, at this time, you have no idea if you had a faulty belt or not.

    "..my Daughter jerks the seatbelts says "LOOK mom they catch the FIRST jerk everytime" she feels safe now and so do I."

    I'm glad you both feel safe in your new van. I hope you enjoy many safe and trouble-free years in it.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    I should, we rear ended someone on the On ramp,the wreck was our fault although we didn't get a ticket"

    You rear ended someone on an on ramp, leaving 15-20 foot skidmarks (from another post)? I can't picture how that would happen..

    You have other safety issues much more pressing than the seat belts catching.

    Have you ever thought maybe it's misplaced rage, since the seat belts issue could have been avoided completely.

    Keep your daughter safe. You feel safer in your new van. Drive safer, too...
  • temp409temp409 Posts: 55
    If -after the wreck when I went to look at van and rear seats caught I would of thought It was only her 1 that was defective and just let go under pressure but NONE of the 4 in rear will catch it was such a OBVIOUS problem and frankly the ones in very rear-3rd row are even worse than middle where she was. Im just thankful to God my boys were not back there thats where they usually ride but since they are 18 and 14 they don't want to go with us much anymore. Hmm so I should call where I bought the van and ask how I can get in touch with a Chrysler rep? That sounds like a good idea to me but then I wonder why so many people have suied over the gen3 if they are willing to fix faulty stuff hmm Ill let you know how it goes only thing is where I just bought the Kia is ALSo where I bought the caravan and I hate to piss them off. I know Ill call a diffent chrysler dealer and ask. Ill let you know what they say.
  • temp409temp409 Posts: 55
    First car stops sudden I think he couldnt see if it was clear cause suv was SO much bigger than his little car and suv kinda started to move to the right and blocked his view so he just stopped at the end of On ramp then Suv was brand new and must of had excellent brakes. Suv stops sudden and we= no anti lock -we skid and hit suv in front of us. I really thought we were going to stop in time but well we didn't. no one in all 3 cars would of been hurt first two drove away after it was all over with cops and stuff She-daughter was the ONLY person hurt. ANYWAY Im going to look in phone book
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