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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Too bad panmax doesn't realize that his Odyssey has this feature for the doors and hatch! Come back, panmax!!!
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I like it, but now there's a void in the Short Wheelbase market for people looking for an affordable van.

    I think DCX should have built a SWB Dodge Caravan, but I don't know if they were losing money on the current SWBs.
  • I like it, but now there's a void in the Short Wheelbase market for people looking for an affordable van. "

    The Kia SWB's look like they'll be the only game in town...
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    BUT the Kia Sedona gas mileage has improved drastically from the gas guzzling 15 City 20 Highway in 2002 to 18/25 which is still LESS than the Caravan SXT 19/26.

    The Sedona has a VERY SMALL 12.9 cu ft cargo space vs 23.5 cu ft of Caravan. (Minivan leader Sienna has 43.6 cu ft). Many sedans have more cargo space in the trunk than the Sedona has behind the 3rd row seat. :shades:

    If the Caravan/SWB T&C is discontinued in 2008 it will be very sad news for minivan buyers. :sick:
  • These are great looking vans! I can't believe I am excited about an american minivan again! Outstandng job DCX!
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    The current Caravan/T&C SWB and Sedona SWB have very similar length and wheelbase, the Sedona SWB shines in other areas. Save the Sienna since there is no SWB version offered here.

    To be fair, the LWB Sedona has 32.2 cu. ft. behind the third row, which is not shabby at all!

    As far as the range is concerned, Kia is currently the king in the van class, with Rondo, Sedona SWB, Sedona LWB all part of the lineup - impressive!!
  • Hey guys,

    I am sure some of you remember me asking questions on here,and some of the other forums last month.I wanted to update you guys on what we did with regard to buying a van.On January 2nd we struck a deal on a certified pre-owned 2006 Toyota Sienna LE w/pckg #1 in Slate metallic.The van has 17K miles on it,and has a 7-100k miles powertrain warranty.We also opted for the platinum coverage which extends the bumper-tobumper coverage to the same 7-100k.

    So far we love the van,and can't get over how much room is in the rear for storage.Also I can't believe how quiet the van is when driving on the freeway.It is almost as if it isn't revving.In our search for a van we test drove almost every model,and almost bought both a Chrysler,and a Kia,but ended up with the Toyota mainly because we could afford more van with this one being certified,and Toyota offering 0.0% financing for 60 months,which we of course chose.

    I wish I could go into the story of our first trip to a Toyota dealer,which almost turned me off to buying a Toyota,but I don't have the time right now,and it is probably against forum policy to bad mouth a dealer.This is the classic story of high pressure sales,and treating the buyer like a piece of meat.If you want I can go into it more in detail later,but for now I need to get to work.Thanks for the help,and I hope we made the right decision with the Toyota.

    Chris
  • d5ad5a Posts: 63
    Glad to hear you found a van. I was in the same boat about 3 weeks ago. Looked at them all then decided on a 2006 Mazda MPV. We also looked at a new and used toyota. I liked them alot but even the used van was still expensive for us. We bought our MPV from a toyota/mazda store and I have to agree with what you said. We had the same dealership experience, a very hard sell. I ended up leaving and looking around for amount a month before we bought our van just because I could not handle the sales people. I then, later went on the computer and dealt with the internet department at the same toyota/mazda dealership and had a great experience. No pressure! I did it all on line and just went and picked up the van. I got $8,000 off a new MPV from making the deal online. I even got a new toyota down to 22k with zero fin. but decided on the MPV for price reasons and more it had a little more equipment on it. I couldn't have had a better car buying experience. I think online buying is the new car buying/sales way to go. The sales person works off how many cars they sell not commission off of each sale. So they are more up front about what they can sell you the car for. Plus your not there for hours dealing with a salesmen treating you like your clueless. I sat in my house drank coffee and emailed them back when I could. Then when I was happy with the offer I said yes and went and picked it up. Took 20 min. at the dealership. I Signed the paper work. The van was cleaned up when I got there. Got the keys and left. From now on I think its the way I will buy cars. Others should try it. Its so much more relaxed and less stress full. Just my thoughts.

    Glad your happy with the van its one of the roommiest inside. And its a toyota you cant go wrong.

    Dave
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I wonder how many SWB minivans DCX was moving, and why they decided to drop it. I'd think that there would still be a market for an SWB minivan, especially if Kia is getting into the game.

    I also think it was a mistake for GM and DCX to drop AWD from their lineup too, as that leaves Toyota as the only AWD game in town...
  • bobber1bobber1 Posts: 217
    Chris,

    Glad to hear you finally found one. I remember you agonized over this decision and you were operating on a tight budget.

    It's hard to go wrong with a Toyota. I did a lot of shopping and the Honda and Toyota were my final two choices. I ended up buying the Honda, but I'm sure would have been equally happy with a Toyota.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I also think it was a mistake for GM and DCX to drop AWD from their lineup too, as that leaves Toyota as the only AWD game in town...

    I think Stow N Go is more popular with typical minivan buyers than AWD. There's a ton of new CUVs coming out if you really need AWD. The new GM CUVs look fantastic and are within inches of my LWB DCX van.

    I believe you'll see a variation on the DCX minivan, that'll be smaller etc...but they'll try not to call it a "minivan".
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I believe you'll see a variation on the DCX minivan, that'll be smaller etc...but they'll try not to call it a "minivan".

    I think they have one, and call it "Pacifica."

    image

    :)
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    AGREE 100 %.
    Smaller inside but guzzles fuel. :shades:
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Plus the MB R-Class :)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    The next Gen Pacifica has been cancelled...no replacement expected. I was thinking more along the lines of the Kahuna concept from a year ago...smaller and based on new RT platform but sharing no body panels or trim.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    The Pacifica is no more fuel efficient than the Town & Country, so between the two I'd probably go with the Town & Country for better versatility.

    I remember seeing something a few years back about Dodge's production plans on the Kahuna... I'm not certain though.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    The Pacifica is LESS fuel efficient than the Town & Country when they both have the same engine. It also has LESS interior space.
    I am NOT a tall person but my head hits the ceiling if I sit in the 3rd row and there is about the same cargo space behind the 3rd row of the Pacifica as there was in a Volkswagen Beetle front trunk. :sick:
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    The Pacifica's footprint is only slightly smaller than the Town & Country though. Makes me wonder where all that space went...
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Pacifica is 2 inches shorter in length than T&C but 0.7 inches wider so the footprint is about 0.1 % smaller. (Compare length X width for each). That is 1 tenth of 1 percent smaller.

    Where did the space go? Inefficient design of Crossover Utility Vehicles compared to Minivans.

    There is an even bigger loss of interior space when comparing the Honda Pilot to the Honda Odyssey or Toyota Highlander to the Toyota Sienna. :sick:
  • Pacifica is 2 inches shorter in length than T&C but 0.7 inches wider so the footprint is about 0.1 % smaller. (Compare length X width for each). That is 1 tenth of 1 percent smaller.

    Where did the space go? Inefficient design of Crossover Utility Vehicles compared to Minivans.

    There is an even bigger loss of interior space when comparing the Honda Pilot to the Honda Odyssey or Toyota Highlander to the Toyota Sienna."

    T&C is much taller vehicle, too
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    YES, the T&C is a whopping 4 tenths of one inch (0.4 inch) more in height than the Pacifica.
    The T&C is 68.9 inches in overall height according to my 2007 T&C brochure while Edmunds lists the Pacifica as being 68.5 inches in height. (The SWB T&C is 68.8 inches in height).
    The T&C has 144 cu ft cargo space behind driver and front passenger while the Pacifica has 92 cu ft. (The SWB T&C has 129 cu ft). These numbers dramatically illustrate the more efficient design of a minivan vs a crossover utility vehicle.
  • I guess looks are deceiving. My van looks much taller than the Pacifica I walked by on the way to my building this morning.

    Were you factoring in since the Pacifica is higher off the ground, it would lose interior room there, even if they are the same height? Looks like it has more clearance...

    I'd like to see a measurement from the floor to the roof inside each vehicle...
  • I am looking for a car inbetween my current 7 seat minivan and a full size 12 seater van. In minivans, I believe my choices are between the Sienna and the Odyssey with 8 seats. Is there anything else? I think the SUburban SUV has 9 seats, but I am told it is $30K used, so out of my price range.

    Also, is there any 8 seater with integrated car seats. I have them on my Caravan and they are great.

    Thanks for the help!
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    What are your pice ranges on the minivan? I ask because Sienna/Odyssey do not come cheap, at least 30K is a normal transaction price.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    A Suburban may or may not be that expensive, depends on how old/miles etc. Another concern with the Suburban is placement of carseats. The 8-9 passenger versions have folding 2nd row seats to access the 3rd row which makes access difficult/impossible if there are carseats in the 2nd row.

    The 8th seat in the Odyssey will not fit a typical carseat. The Sienna 8th seat appears to be better, but only comes in cloth/lower end models which might be a good thing.

    But as mentioned Odysseys/Siennas aren't all that cheap either.
  • Ideally I'd like to pay no more than 20k for a relatively late model. I see 1-2 year-old Siennas that seem to fit the price range. I looked at some new models also, they seem to be 24k, is that not realistic?
    Is the integrated car seat only on the caravan?
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I don't think any of the newer Caravans have the built-in car seats either. I know Honda/Toyota don't offer it.

    The cheapest Odyssey that comes with the 8th seat is the EX and invoice is around $26,500. You can get them for invoice but you might have to shop around. The Siennas have cheaper 8-passenger models and $24 is probably possible if you keep the options on the light side.

    You could probably get into a Suburban for $20,000 but you'd have to drive a pretty hard bargain on a private sale. The good news is a 9-passenger version (front bench seat) is not very desirable and you might find someone desperate to move it. The bad news is they didn't make many. I had a 9-passenger Tahoe and found quite a few towards the end of the model year. The one I bought had sat on the dealers lot almost a year and only had 8 miles on it. I got a killer deal and did fine on the trade-in for the Ody. I think it would have been a tough private sale but the Honda dealer probably didn't know better.
  • For $20K, you should also be able to get a well equipped late model Expedition that seats 8 comfortably.

    We traded in our 04 T&C last week for a 2004 Navigator Ultimate Edition (upscale Expedition). Ours has the 2nd row bench, and we've already carried 8 people confortably (with 2 carseats in the 2nd row, too)

    I've wanted to upgrade to more safety features for awhile no (we had no side airbags or stability control). Also didn't have the fold flat 3rd row. The wife soured on the minivan idea the last few months, so this is what we wound up with. Great, luxurious ride that also handles really well for a vehicle it's size. And I can't think of a feature that I would want that we don't have. Just have to pay a heavy MPG penalty. But we knew what we were getting into...

    First used car we've bought in about 10 years. I think we'll go that route from now on
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  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Does the Navigator have sufficient luggage space for the 8 people?
    It probably has comparable to the 04 T&C but not nearly as much as the 99-07 Ody, 05-07 Sienna, or 05-07 T&C/GC. :shades:
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