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Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

194959799100122

Comments

  • Does the Navigator have sufficient luggage space for the 8 people?
    It probably has comparable to the 04 T&C but not nearly as much as the 99-07 Ody, 05-07 Sienna, or 05-07 T&C/GC."

    It doesn't have the deep well, but the distance from the back seats to the liftgate is about the same as minivans. You are also able to fold the seats up a bit, to be more upright and have a little more luggage room. And since the 3rd row room is more than any minivan I've seen, it's not a problem to be more upright
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Ouch!!!!!! $38,700 for loaded T&C with tow pack, Nav and DVD???? It does have a ton of unique features like heated second row seats, power fold 3rd row etc.....but $38k???
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Fully loaded, the T&C is over $43,000. Did they surpass the Sienna FWD price ceiling?

    I can't help but wonder how long these prices will remain at this level, and when they'll drop to invoice and below... it is only a matter of time for all vehicles.

    Is the 4.0L only available on the limited model?
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I priced out a Touring Package 3 with what I'd like, and the total came to $39,003.

    Then again, minivans rarely sell at MSRP for more than a few months, save for the 1999-2002 Odyssey, or the 2004 Sienna...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I priced out the Limited, hence the higher cost. I don't imagine they can sell at MSRP past Summer.
  • pernaperna Posts: 533
    Yeah, our T&C stickered at $29k, and we got it for $24k OTD. Even though it was technically the end of the model and that's why it was so cheap, I can never remember a time where Chrysler vans sold anywhere close to full pop.

    It is a Touring and doesn't have leather, roof, nav, or DVD, but it does have all the "useful" or "bang for the buck" options like all 3 doors are powered. It even has stuff that is technically fluff but still used day-to-day like Homelink.

    I'm a terminal "buy the model below the premium" car buyer. Things like GPS and DVD are nice, but can be added at a price 10-20% of what the OEM price is. And, if you're making payments, it adds up to even more than that with interest.

    Anything over $30k for a minivan is ridiculous, especially if you're like me and will be ferrying your kids in it from infant stage up through elementary school. By the time we sell it, it will have PLPD on it because it will be WORTHLESS. :)

    I can see where luxury minivans would appeal strongly to empty nesters, though. Heck, my mom didn't buy her first minivan until she was 55, and we were all moved out!
  • carcom2carcom2 Posts: 212
    Looks like the T&C loaded at over $43K cost more than the fully loaded FWD Sienna w/ the most expensive option package. Chrysler better re-think their prices on these loaded minivans (and all trim levels) or else they're going to sell a lot fewer of these than they expect. I'm actually disappointed in their pricing. There is no way they should cost more than all the others.
    The T&C with the cool Swivel 'n Go seats seems to have the least leg room of most of the minivans. It's hard to tell for sure, but when the seats swivel towards the back, 4 people might not have enough leg room to not have to touch each others legs. Another negative.

    Haven't really compared the other levels of trim, however, the T&C base LX at $22,195 plus option package 2, comes to $28,567. I'm interested in the "Top of the Line" at this point. T&C needs to have incentives as soon as they're on sale or/and redo the prices. The prices on their website are not etched in stone. They are estimated prices. And you still have to pay an extra $165 for Light Sandstone Metallic or Clearwater Blue Pearl or $247 for Inferno Red. They are pricing themselves out of the market IMO. Not a good thing if the minivan is their bread and butter. And then you also have to consider if/when Chrysler gets sold, how will that effect quality, service, etc.

    The Sienna $41,637 includes:

    FWD, 3.5-Liter V6, Limited 7-passenger, 5-Speed, most expensive Option H $5527

    Honda Odyssey includes:

    2007 Odyssey
    Touring with Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation and DVD Rear Entertainment Systems Automatic Transmission (Standard Features)
    Base MSRP: $39,095

    Destination & Handling: $595

    MSRP including selected accessories: $39,690

    Nissan Quest includes:

    Base MSRP $33,900
    Packages and Options
    TECHNOLOGY PACKAGE $800
    FOLD-AWAY SEAT PACKAGE $750
    NAVIGATION AND PAX PACKAGE $2,650
    3.5 SE NISSAN DVD ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM $2,000

    Subtotal $40,100
    Destination and Handling $650
    Total Configured MSRP $40,750

    Hyundai Entourage Limited:
    Fully loaded (no NAV available on website) Total MSRP : $32,495
  • carcom2carcom2 Posts: 212
    Does anyone know how soon the T&C will be at the next few car shows to actually be able to sit in one and check it out carefully, i.e. swivel the seats around to check leg room, see & feel how the reach and comfort level are for the shifter, comfort of 2nd & 3rd row,etc.

    Feedback and detailed pictures would be appreciated.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    They are pricing themselves out of the market IMO. Not a good thing if the minivan is their bread and butter.

    One would think, since Chrysler invented the minivan market, that they'd know how to price out these new vans taking into consideration the competition. It would be nice if they'd price them realistically instead of relying on gimmicks such as rebates!!! But I'm not holding my breath for that to happen!
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    that if you're willing to hold out until November, you'll be able to get 0% financing for 60 months, or $3000 cash back.

    The vans look attractive, but the minivan market is not exactly a growing one, and any new customers are going to come either from fleets or converts from other minivans, and not necessarily new minivan shoppers.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    is that it's limited to 3 channels. If DCX could somehow get Sirius to offer 10 channels, with 3 kids, 3 news, and 2 movie channels, along with 1 finance channel, I'm sure they could move a lot more vans and Chrysler 300s...
  • pernaperna Posts: 533
    Maybe I'm turning into my parents, but my wife and I specifically bought a van ('07 T&C) that DIDN'T have DVD built in. Part of my love of books came from spending hours in the car reading as a kid, and for some reason I just have an intuitive feeling as a parent that I should minimize the amount of time my kids spend staring at a screen. I don't mind videogames nearly as much, since they are at least DOING something interactively.

    The Sirius tech is definately cool, and we do have built-in Sirius in our van, but I wouldn't be interested at all in the TV option.

    That said, I have wondered for years why they don't make regular car head units that can tune TV stations, but produce audio only? Many, many shows would work just as well with no video like the news, talk shows, and comedies. I don't care about the kids in this respect, I would just like to be able to listen to TV as the driver! :P
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I once chatted with a engineer at Visteon who designed Rear Seat DVD systems for Visteon (formerly Ford Electronics). He doesn't allow his kids to watch the DVD while traveling around town on short trips. He doesn't get to spend enough time with them, and really values the time he does have with them...so no DVD! It's talk with Dad time!! I admired that in him!!
  • dbtdbt Posts: 298
    Both the Sienna & Odyssey suffered big sales drops in March 2007 versus March 2006: Sienna down 23% and Odyssey down 20%. Do you think this trend will continue?
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    What did they do for January and Febuary?

    The 20+% is pretty huge for one month though. I think it'll level out when this big "crossover" thing cools off.
  • dbtdbt Posts: 298
    What did they do for January and Febuary?

    Sienna: (Jan/Feb) -11.5% / -10.5%
    Odyssey: (Jan/Feb) +4.5% / -0.3%

    So, Sienna (despite the new bigger engine and CR's rec as the new top minivan) continues its decline, but Odyssey is much worse than before.
  • bobber1bobber1 Posts: 217
    I wouldn't put too much weight in 2 to 3 month figures. Yearly trends are more noteworthy.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Well DCX is giving their vans away too, at the same time....that's probably having some effect with cost conscious buyer.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    is having a huge minivan sale, so I'm betting that that is having an effect on Sienna and Odyssey sales, particularly the less expensive LX and CE/LE versions.

    The higher end models are going unsold as wealthier customers are leaning towards crossovers which don't have that stigma...
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I'm tired of the word "Stigma"!!! I drove a GMC Acadia last week to see what I'm missing by driving a "Stigma"....it was $42,000 with a really nice interior (FINALLY GM!!!), power was ok, but the ride was a little stiff. It didn't have nearly the room of my Minivan, and didn't ride as nice. I'm waiting to drive the 2008 DCX twins, then possibly getting one.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Most of the crossovers I looked at at the NY show yesterday didn't have a backseat as comfortable as my Odyssey, albeit the Veracruz, Outlook, and Freestyle had ok third rows...

    Nothing beats a minivan when it comes to that 3rd row comfort... :)
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Posts: 483
    Congrats! I am looking at US vehicles as being very competitive for the first time in years, and I hope to get one next year. The Upcoming Ford Taurus X Crossover looks very promising for my needs.
  • dbtdbt Posts: 298
    Well DCX is giving their vans away too, at the same time....that's probably having some effect with cost conscious buyer.
    A few more data points (07 versus 06, percentage change):
    March February YTD
    Odyssey -20 -0.3 -4.7
    Sienna -23 -10.5 -13.4
    Town & C -14.7 -12.5 -5.4
    Caravan/GC -27.5 -7.1 -9.8
    Sedona -35.6 -8.2 -6.9 (had big incentives on 06s in Jan)
    Entourage (NA, but total March is 1358, YTD 3226)

    Total 07 sales for
    DCX vans: about 90k
    Odyssey: about 37k
    Sedona: about 16k
    Sienna: about 35k

    Granted, the Odyssey drop has been more recent, but you're seeing huge drops in minivan sales across the board in March, and a roughly 10% drop YTD across the board. And that's not even counting GM / Ford / Mazda exiting.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    the introduction of minivan sized CUVs like the Saturn Outlook and Hyundai Veracruz. Does anybody have sales numbers for those?
  • dbtdbt Posts: 298
    These are certainly competitors:

    YTD sales (through 03/07)
    Acadia: 11704
    Outlook: 5054
    Veracruz: 178
    CX9: 3693

    Raw Numbers Drop for minivans:
    T&C: from 39k to 36,9
    C/GC: from 58,6 to 52,9
    Odyssey: 39,2 to 37,3
    Sienna: 40,4 to 34,9

    DCX: down 8k units
    Odyssey: down 2k units
    Sienna: down 5 1/2 k units
    Sedona/Entourage: about 1k more if you add the Entourage (no early 06 sales)

    But, the question remains: how much and for how long will the new crossovers (and coming Highlander in July 07, and Pilot in April 08) bite into minivan sales?
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    These are certainly competitors:

    YTD sales (through 03/07)
    Acadia: 11704
    Outlook: 5054
    Veracruz: 178
    CX9: 3693

    Raw Numbers Drop for minivans:
    T&C: from 39k to 36,9
    C/GC: from 58,6 to 52,9
    Odyssey: 39,2 to 37,3
    Sienna: 40,4 to 34,9

    DCX: down 8k units
    Odyssey: down 2k units
    Sienna: down 5 1/2 k units
    Sedona/Entourage: about 1k more if you add the Entourage (no early 06 sales)

    But, the question remains: how much and for how long will the new crossovers (and coming Highlander in July 07, and Pilot in April 08) bite into minivan sales? "

    I think it will be continual and a big bite. It is only in the last year that SUV/crossovers began to match all of the big minivan plusses: interior space, carlike ride, decnt gas mileage. In the past, they had some of those features, but not all. And they already sold very well.

    The only thing left is the sliding doors. But it seems many people will take regular doors if they get something they thinks looks better.

    Just my opinion, and obviously there are many people who will still like minivans, but the market will continue to erode, from what I see,

    I don't think we'll go back to a minivan...
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    No matter what, a CUV will never match a minivan for versatility, space, ease of use etc.... I looked at the Acadia, drove it etc....it was ok, but there's less space, harder to get in to and out of, and is less of a "do everything" vehicle than my Grand Caravan. Think of what an Acadia owner has to do to haul anything...physically remove the seats, store em etc... or my specific issue weeks ago - I helped a buddy with a Flat Screen TV from BestBuy. It wouldn't fit in a CUV as easily if at all!!

    The only advantage for a CUV would be AWD and possibly styling, if one is that ashamed to be seen in a minivan.
  • bobber1bobber1 Posts: 217
    I think young families will still want a minivan. You cart all that stuff around and have to access the back seats often. Plus you don't have to worry about young kids slamming doors open and hitting other cars.

    Families with older kids may switch over to CUV's.

    I think the minivan market share will continue to erode, but I don't see it going the way of the station wagon. It's just too practical on too many levels.
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