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Comments
I noticed that too when I glanced at the performance data page. They have it doing 0-60 in over 10 seconds! I can't see how this is at all possible. Our '05 feels every bit as fast as our '02 which supposedly did 0-60 in less than 9 seconds. Something had to be terribly wrong during their tests. They must have had the A/C on or something.
If it was a value test and not a performance test, why not include the CR-V?
For that matter why not include the Kia Sorento? It's a little bigger than all of them but yet costs about the same.
And, like you said, where was the Liberty?
I'm a fan of the Equinox, sliding rear seats are a nice feature.
Yes, the sliding seats are nice. I agree.
I too was a fan of the Equinox when I first saw them. I drive by a Chevy dealer every day on my way to work and saw the first one's to arrive. As weeks passed by they started to pile up a little and lower end models began to rear their ugly heads. Without the bigger wheels/tires and other appearance stuff you only get on the LT trim it looks pretty dull if you ask me.
It's typical GM. You have to pay the big bucks if you want the one in the commercial. I hate that. Dodge is doing the same thing now with the Hemi models. $40k+ for a Durango? They can go pound salt.
FWIW, that aforementioned Chevy dealer has had the exact same red SSR sitting in their showroom for months. You can almost smell the pile of incentive cash that's about to be poured on it from the street outside.
There is a chartreuse Red Line VUE with ugly graphics that's been parked on display in front of the same Saturn dealer for about 10 months. Again, yuck, yuck...
I'd rather see 500 low level Equinoxes than 1 Aztek. Still lots of those around here, I see about 5-8 a day on my 30 mile round-trip commute.
Hyundia, don't get me started on this ugly beast.. Someone wacked it enough with an ugly stick!
Oh how true!
I would take a low level Equinox over a loaded Malibu any day.
Me too. Especially since the Malibu only comes with an ATX. If I'm buying a car it MUST be fun to drive. The Malibu does not come close to fitting that bill. However, I really can't say that I drove one, but I've also never read an article that stated otherwise.
The lower level Nox kind of has a CR-V LX/Escape XLS thing going on with smaller wheels/tires, no fog lights, etc. An AWD Nox LS starts at $23,535. At least with the V and the Escape you can get a better bargain. Price one of the latter models comparably to the base AWD Nox and the Nox starts to look like the rip-off of the century.
Like the other poster said, accept it and move on.
Also, I don't think syling figures in to the MT comparison. And why do you ask again why they didn't test the XLT? It was answered in the other forum and you were told it wouldn't effect the rankings.
Steve, Host
The fact is Ford/Mazda did a great job with this mini-ute and people are liking it....
Now I am going to hear the same old story of rental vehicles making up 50 percent of the sales right Honda fans??
We have been discussing price and features, etc.
And it has been mentioned many times how much bigger a dealer network Ford has as compared to Honda. It has been mentioned many times how domestics have a built in sales advantage over imports.
What's the breakdown of 4 cylinder vs. V6 sales for the Escape? For whatever reason many people want a V6 in their sport wagon (to use the above referenced article's term). They won't consider a CR-V.
The Escape is the sales leader. It's just not as good a value as the CR-V when the two are comparably equipped.
icvi.. and once again here we go with incentives and leases and the rentals jargon again. This is the only reason Ford Escape/Tribute outsell the CRV.. blah, blah, blah... Ever thought maybe people prefer the Escape to the CRV?? or the Escape is the better vehicle that suits more peoples needs?? wow! another concept....
Here are the reasons I see -
1 - Incentives are usually better on the Escape.
2 - Those who want a Japanese car view the Tribute as a Ford and those who want a Ford view it as a Japanese car.
3 - Dealer network.
Quality of the vehicle has very little to do with it. IMO the same is true of the Escape and CR-V.
Many Americans won't even consider the CR-V as it is Japanese. That has nothing to do with the quality of the vehicle at all
Honda doesn't offer huge incentives, or have a work force and a supplier base nearly as large as that of Ford.
Honda doesn't have near the dealer network of Ford.
I'm not saying Ford should be looked down upon for those strengths, I'm merely saying that implying one vehicle is better than another based upon sales is a paper thin argument.
Give it up.
You have NOT given me any decent information about Escape pricing. I gave it to you. You have posted incorrect information about the vehicle you own and support many times. You post a price for a FWD vehicle and compare that to an AWD CR-V. You post info about the vehicle that is impossible (16" tires on the 4 cyl. etc.). You don't have the facts. I do.
The CR-V is a better value.
If anyone doesn't understand why Ford has a built in sales advantage due to it's larger dealer network. Here is a perfect example. And being in Michigan--you better buy a Ford ;-).
My point is that when similarly equipped the CR-V costs less. I'll leave it up to the purchaser to decide whether that makes the CR-V a "better value".
CRV Frontal 5,5, Side 5,5, Rollover 3
Escape Frontal 5,4, Side 5,5, Rollover 3
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/Cars/2003SUVs.html
Below is IIHS safety data
CRV Side Marginal, Frontal Good
Escape Side Good, Frontal Marginal
2005 have acceptable for Frontal. You need the side air bag option to get "good" for side impact.
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0307.htm
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0310.htm
Correct but don't expect much improvement as the CR-V only offers torso bags as opposed to the head and torso bags of the older Escape.
The '05 Escape hasn't been side tested with the new safety canopy either.
Interesting story. My wife called me in to the living room last night so I could watch Dateline's report on crash tests. They tested the new Subaru Legacy. IIRC all Subaru's did very well in crash tests before and the new Legacy was no exception in most cases.
Strangely enough they had to test it twice because the first copy they tested had what appeared to be an air curtain malfunction. The dummy was pretty much dead after the impact. Subaru discovered that the SACs were installed BACKWARDS and issued a recall.
The second one that was tested had the bags installed the right way and the dummy's head was protected rather well by them. However, the lower structure of the car gave quite a bit and was said to have caused serious internal injuries to the dummy.
I have no real point but I was bored and thought I'd share that with all of you because I thought it was pretty funny. Good thing no one had to discover the SAC problem the hard way.
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0105.htm#4
Take a look at that buckling A-Pillar. Yikes. Hard to tell from that rating if they improved that aspect.
FWIW Ford did "explain" the buckling A-pillar here http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=106&press_subsection_id=424&make_id=92. It was supposedly designed to do that so more of the impact would be absorbed into the structure. Maybe it was a good thing, maybe it wasn't. All I know is that they did stiffen the structure so the A-pillar doesn't bend as much in the '05's and now the Escape, like many others before it, is a greater danger to those who get hit by one.
We all know the good that comes out of these crash tests. But we tend to forget that making structures stiffer so they can compete in these tests puts the people being hit in even greater danger. That's one BIG drawback that I can think of.
Sounds like you wanted a 6 cylinder vehicle. Obviously the CR-V isn't the choice.
I agree that ordering a Ford (or other domestic and even a Toyota) should get you exactly what you want. But that's not for me. When I ordered a Chevy a lifetime ago it seemed like the vehicle had been cobbled together. You could see where they pulled this out to replace it with that. I think it's a myth that they actually build it to your spec.
Honda does it right IMO. Trim lines with very few options. Also it's kind of hard to find a CR-V with a ton of extras as there aren't that many, espcecially in the EX trim. Pinstripes and similar that a dealer may add would be added to any vehicle they sell, not just a Honda.
Not for long...
gotj "2005 Honda CR-V?" Jul 26, 2004 10:49pm
The Crashtests prove the Escape is not unsafe as some wish to try to imply. Anyone have any pics of a CRV engine fire?? Looks like this is spreading like wildfire on the net.. doesn't look too good for the CRV sales..
Drive62, once again I will post Escape sales ads in this Friday/Saturday paper. I will give you prices, vin#'s and phone numbers to each Dealership. This is a whole lot more than what you gave me! NOTHING. The fact is you cannot buy a CRV-EX for your claimed $20,500 out the door price....
Steve, Host
I don't think Drive62 ever claimed that is was OTD. Selling price at $20,500 that posters you can follow up with. They can even give you how much tax they paid on top of the selling price. Drive62 and I have both given you plenty of information on selling prices at and below invoice and you cannot move on. So... search for Philadelphia Inquirer - last Sunday's paper. Conicelli in Conshohocken, PA. Advertised last Sunday.
Then PLEASE move on. Let others see comparisons, not whatever it is that keeps you stuck on this one issue. There are some people that want to compare the Ford and the Honda. Let them, and if price is a deciding factor for them, let them see each suv's "Prices Paid" board for more extensive research.
"power moonroof with shade" "NA on the XLS trim."
http://www.fordvehicles.com/Suvs/escape/features/
As for the 4 wheel disc brakes. On this link it gives specs for each trim line.
http://www.fordvehicles.com/Suvs/escape/features/
Can you see the XLS trim where it says for brakes "ABS standard, Power Front Disc, Rear Drum"? Where does it say 4 wheel disc is an option? 4 wheel disc is an OPTION when you get 4WD. Remember we are talking about a 4 cylinder Escape. Now this is where I get confused. It says 4WD is standard on XLS. I don't think that is true. So if 4WD is an option for the XLS then I suppose 4 wheel discs are an option as well. So if someone else can straighten out that confusion I'll agree with you.
Maybe some of this information isn't correct. If so, that is Ford's issue. Not mine.
If you think ordering options is the way to go that is your perrogative. I prefer the Honda way. Trim lines with very few options. Simplifying production is one of the benefits. That must be why Ford's cost per vehicle is so much higher.
Your obsession with this pricing issue is nauseating. Yep, it's my agenda to lie about what people pay for the CR-V. LOL. $20500 has been paid (and probably lower). $20700 has been paid. $23000 has been paid. And many prices in between. All before taxes I assume. As bshel pointed out I never said anything about OTD (reading IS fundamental). To quote prices OTD is ridiculous IMO.
Unfortunately people have been talking past each other in here for months and the helpful comparison posts tend to get buried in the dross.
Not sure what we can do about it; a start would be to ignore posts that don't interest you and scroll down to the next one.
Steve, Host
This CRV fire deal is all over the internet... I would say this is another big black eye for Honda..
Who waits six month for a Honda? You are so off the wall it is ridiculous. Someone just paid $20800 for a loaded CR-V EX with auto transmission. Yeah that sounds like a premium price. But I'm sure according to you they lied.
Well, to be brutally honest, there isn't really any such thing as a "loaded" CR-V EX, since they all come with the same options...
Sure there is. But you have to have the dealer screw or stick the extra items on to your EX for a substantial fee. What's not to like about that!
You used to have to have the dealer add things like lower body cladding, fog lights, roof rack and/or roof rack crossbars, trailer hitch, etc. to the CR-V. If you want to make one comparable to an Escape XLT, minus the V6 of course, you must add those things at the dealer. It ain't cheap!
Having those added at the factory is most likely a lot cheaper because it is faster.
Most imports including Mazda used to be that way. Options were port or dealer installed. Honda holds on but even they've deviated a bit.
Let's hope they build the cars better than their websites...
Or perhaps it is available to fleet orders but not the general public?
If you build all vehicles the same (same colors, same radio, same interior, same wheels, etc.), then the car is cheaper to build. The assembly lines are less complicated, they don't have to stop to be retooled, and the workers make fewer mistakes.
If you take a production line with no variations and you start making changes, you add cost, complexity, and a larger margin of error. That's why Honda can offer moderate to high levels of content in their vehicles, yet keep the prices reasonable. And they still make a profit.
i don't like the side hinged rear access on the crv.
All Fords, Chevys, etc. have specific options that are available for each trim level. They normally do not make cars that deviate from their defined configurations - whether these cars are ordered or not. 4-wheel disc brakes are standard on 4WD Escapes at XLT trim and above. They are not available, even as an option, on any FWD Escape.
One of the best that I recall was the base Forester back in 1998. This vehicle appeared as an option in their brochures, but it was never sold in the USA. I'm told they cancelled the entire trim level, but the brochures still made it to the dealers.
As for Scape's salesman... Bait and switch. Dealers will offer you anything over the phone. Actually getting what you order is another story.
Was that in town, highway, or mixed?