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Ford is a very easy target right now because of the whole tire thing, and they are being made to look worse than they really are when it comes to quality and reliability. They, along with all the other makers, always have had, and always will make mistakes. Some more than others. Yes they have admitted to some quality issues recently. Wouldn't you if your company logo was on the local and/or national news almost every night? What are they supposed to say when not one shred of good news has been reported about them for over a year? People are eating that stuff up for lunch. They're still buying their products in large quantities though.
Everyone keeps saying how Honda fixes a problem and it's gone, but Ford doesn't. First of all, for some reason you don't ever hear of Honda's problems (and it's not because they don't have any). Second, Ford and the other domestics do the same thing, and they are all getting better at it. The foreign's are just evolving a little faster, maybe because they have to, maybe not. Someone said that Japan has/had some of the worst air on earth, and that is a big reason why Honda along with the others from over there have been so environmentally conscious. Lets face it, the big three aren't going to do anything like that until someone makes them. I can't really think of any other U.S. companies that would either. The domestic automakers will just stick a bigger engine in the bay and sell to the "other half".
I'll let you folks take it from here...
hondaman,"The Odysseys problems have been fixed for a long time and it is now one of the hottest vans on the market and the most reliable in its category!"
Regardless of all that, the Windstar outsold the Odyssey last year and is very close this year. My sister has a Windstar (used, 2000 I think) and my cousin has an early Odyssey (bought new in 2000 I think). Both are very nice vehicles, but only one of them has had some problems. I'll let you guess which one that was.
"You are only speculating what the curve might look like based on where you see the peak vs hp. Your 'assuming' that there's a sharp drop off, and your 'assuming' that its a slow ramp up." - Bess
Nope. It is not an assumption. I'm glad you questioned that. This may help a few folks learn something new. Take a look at this...
"In contrast to a torque curve, horsepower rises rapidly with rpm, especially when torque values are also climbing. Horsepower will continue to climb, however, until well past the torque peak, and will continue to rise as engine speed climbs, until the torque curve really begins to plummet, faster than engine rpm is rising."
The quote comes from here. It's a link that was frequently passed around a few years ago.
Okay, based on that, we know that HP will continue to climb until the torque curve drops like a rock. That point is when it reaches peak HP. Since the Escape reaches peak HP at only 1,200 rpms higher than peak torque, we can conclude that torque must be dropping PDQ. If the torque curve was flat after its peak, the Escape would be making a whole lot more HP.
In contrast, the CR-V's torque peak is relatively low (3,600 rpms). Peak HP is reached at 6,000 rpms. That's 2,400 rpms higher, or twice the difference seen in the Escape. Freeber is wrong about the numbers, but correct in principle. The CR-V's 2.4 produces 90% of peak torque from 2,525 to 5,500 rpms.
"Also, you have not shown the CRV torque curve, again your 'assuming' that it is more broad than the V6.. Your speculations are far from 'proof'." - Bess
Nope. That is incorrect. I've published this link about a dozen times. It is the torque and HP curve for the CR-V's 2.4L plotted over a uniform X and Y grid. I've also posted the one that Intmed describes. You can read back in the thread and find it. In either case, you'll actually note that torque drops over a longer stretch than it builds. That's a bit different than most other engines.
I would love to compare this to a 3.0L Escape, but no one has found the Escape's curve! To the best of my knowledge, Ford has not published it.Tidester - I believe I did provide a reasonable explanation (proof) for my points when I posted it the first time. It simply wasn't understood by all.
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