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CR-V vs Escape

scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
I had to add this topic. Edmunds states the CRV bests the Escape V6 in 0-60 times. I happen to have a friend who works for a Honda dealer. I took an Escape V6 and a new Honda CRV and we did our own 0-60 tests. The Escape bested the CRV everytime! I am beginning to question Edmunds testing. Please explain how you did your 0-60 tests.
We did ours by first marking off 1 mile on a flat, straight abandoned road. We started each vehicle from a stopped position. We did this at least 6x and everytime the Escape would prevail??
How?
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Comments

  • It is clear they tested the V6 with automatic.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    You are correct. They listed the 4-cylinder 5M under the "Vehicle Tested" in bold blue while the V-6 engine was stated as an "option." I will delete my post.

    However, where does Edmunds get the 9.3 seconds 0-60 time for the Escape in the CR-V article?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Edmunds data is wrong. Another point is the numbers just don't add up. The Escape weighs just 139lbs more than a CRV! This 139lbs isn't going to matter because of the Escapes 40HP and 35-40 ft/lbs of torque advantage. Another thing, Edmunds lists the Torque at 196, other sites list it as 200ft/lbs? Why?
    This makes no sense.. The review is wrong about the CRV being quicker 0-60.
    By the way, the CRV my friend (the Honda manager) and I tested was a 5spd.
    I am not in any way slamming the CRV by the way. I am however questioning Edmunds and its testing...
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,940
    Here's another thread about those numbers. Tidester alerted the editorial guys to review the review.

    bess "Ford Escape" Jan 10, 2002 2:10pm

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • You can not assume that the manual will be faster than the auto.
    The CR-V auto actually has equal or better gas mileage ratings compared to the manual, implying that it is close in efficiency to the manual.

    It is interesting that continuously variable transmissions like that in the VUE will probably be faster than manuals. With a few more years of development, the CVT may make manual transmissions obsolete.

    So what would be really interesting is to see the accelleration test for the automatic CR-V. I would be good to see 0-30 numbers for all 3 vehicles as well.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    Well? Any answers yet?
  • artdechoartdecho Posts: 337
    Also.......seems like you guys(scape2 & friend) did a 1/4 mile test as opposed to a 0-60 test.....a vehicle that might be quicker 0-60 could still lose out over the 1/4 mile.......also depends on your shifting proficiency, as the auto-Escape driver just has to mash the throttle & not worry about clutch engagment, up-shifts etc. I would expect an Auto/CR-V vs. and Auto/Escape to be virtually neck & neck with neither vehicle blowing the doors off the other except in the area of fuel economy, where the CR-V has a definite advantage.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,940
    No, everyone went to the LA auto show (lol, hosts weren't invited....).

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    a V6 Escape and automatic CRV will be neck and neck? The weight advantage of the CRV is a measly 140lbs? 200 HP/200ft/lbs of torque vs 160HP and 162ft/lbs of torque, the numbers don't add up right. The Escape is has the clear advantage. We need a retest here Edmunds..
    Granted 0-60 does not make a vehicle. I am not saying the Escape is the "better" vehicle. I want to get this out on the floor before I am accused of being bias. CRV doesn't suit my needs. I needed towing power. Power to tow and haul 4 people and a gear. Other wise the CRV is a nice vehicle... I just question the testing methods..
  • If you are looking for towing and hauling 4 people, then the perfet SUV for you is the Jeep Liberty. Not only is it roomier but it has the best tow rating at 5000 pounds. It is also a much safer and better built vehicle. Plus it doesn't have recalls to fix steering columns falling out at highway speed.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    It just flips over more easily.
  • bessbess Posts: 972
    You state that the because the automatic tranny in the CRV 'almost' gets the same MPG as the manual, that it is as efficient and would keep up in the 0-60 race..

    On the highway when running at constant speeds, the torque coverter is 'locked' in the automatic and is almost as good as the manual.. Also, there could be a difference in the OD ratio on the auto vs manual, which could boost the highway mpg's of the automatic..

    But, during acceleration this torque converter lockout is usually not enguaged and there is a decent amount of power thats wasted in the slipping of the tranny.
    If you watch the RPM guage carefully when on the highway, you can see where the torque converter locks because there is a slight drop in RPMs that not associated with a gear shift..

    With equal everything else, the manual tranny should always beat the automatic tranny. The CRV has a good engine, and it just barely beats the Escape in the Edmunds test.. Putting the automatic in the CRV will put it well behind the Escape in acceleration..

    If you prefer manual trannies (like I do), then this is an advantage for the CRV as Ford doesn't offer the V6 Escape with a manual tranny.

    Also, what happens if you put a load or tow with each vehicle? You'd probably like the extra torque of the V6.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    I just wanna know where they pull that 9.3 second figure from. Especially since all the other motor mags and sites tested the V-6 Escape's 0-60 as being consistently in the lower 8 seconds range.
  • You are right, though a shortened slalom at a higher speed they do. Not in everyday or off road driving. At least it's attractive, non-generic, roomy, capable of towing, equipped with both full time and part time 4wd and doesn't have 11 safety recall like the ford "escape-with-your-life."
  • canadatwocanadatwo Posts: 198
    The Liberty has only been tested in the offset crash tests.

    It failed the first time around (faulty airbag design)

    When that was fixed, the Liberty scored "Marginal" which is exaclty the same what the Escape got.

    We have yet to see the frontal & side impact tests for the Liberty and any of the tests for the CRV.

    Also, as mentioned, the Liberty rolled over or tended to roll over in two seperate slalom tests.

    I think it is a bit premature to say that the Liberty is "safer" than the Escape and the CRV.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    First, I did test drive this vehicle. Its MPG was terrible, Size, all dimensions are so close to each other, Escape wins some, Liberty wins some. My wife and I could not get over the round headlight front styling.. the power window switches and the cramped back seats. It was very hard to get in and out of the back seats. More standard equipment also on the Escape Premium vs a Liberty Limited for your $$.. V6 was rough in the Liberty also.. What about the Liberty transmission problems I am reading about around the net. Liberty has its advantages offroad. Since only 10% of my driving is offroad (I don't take the Rubicon to work) I wanted a nice ride.
    Escape recalls are old news...
    BAck to Escape vs CRV..
    I sure hope readers pick-up that the CRV was a manual and the Escape an automatic. I also question where Edmunds get the 9.3 second 0-60 times? Times on other reviews from Motor Trend to Car and Driver to whomever rate the Escape in the mid 8's or so.... The V6 was a smart move by Ford in this segment to gain market share.
    Youch! Ford to close plants and layoff thousands though!??
  • FYI: I test drove the Liberty and Escape. The escape is much roomier inside. It was faster.It didn't feel like it would turn over around a corner (the liberty did). The back seat of the liberty was cramped. My money is on the escape or the gmc envoy. I just can't decide if the envoy is worth an extra $9000.00.

    Also, I don't know what the people at edmunds have been smoking but the Escape v6 is 8.2 - 8.5sec 0-60 in four other tests I have seen. Maybe Honda is paying them to push the CRV.

    Before you say I am biased: I have never owned a ford. I have owned 3 Hondas and currently own a '99 Accord EX V6 Coupe.

    I wish Honda would get with the program and put some power under the hood of the CRV! It would be a screamer if they put the 3.0 V6 from the Accord in the CRV!!
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    But what about the Trailblazer? My sister has one. Besides the shoddy build quality, it's a very good car.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    You must mean Blazer. Trailblazer is winning awards all over the place for build quality..
    Anyway, The Trailblazer and Escape are two totally differnt animals. It really depends on your use. Need heavy hauler/towing the inline six on the Trailblazer is wonderful and ahead of anything in this class for HP/Torque curves. Chevy did its homework and it shows.
    Escape is for light towing/light hauling.
    I sure am enjoying mine. I have a black/grey interior XLT V6. Came with side step bars and splash guards all around. I have added a rock guard and tinted the front two windows to match the others. I have been stopped in parking lots and playgrounds by people commenting and asking questions.. The V6 is one heck of a kick!
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    hondaman,

    Honda's sales are going up and I say, good for them. But, they still have a long way to go.


    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=12881


    YTD (as of 08/2002) sales for American Honda: 822,111 (Honda Division: 707,921)


    YTD (as of 08/2002) sales for Ford Motor Company:

    2,489,417 (Ford division: 2,055,795)


    The CR-V did outsell the Escape by 1,326 units. I don't yet know how many Tributes were sold in August.

  • You hit the nail on the head with the differences between the Trailblazer and the Escape. I am trying to decide how often I will actually use the extra towing capacity and the few extra gadgets the Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravada have. As far as people room, they both are really close. Both have the about the same get up and go. The Escape feels more secure around corners at higher speeds.

    I am glad to hear you are enjoying your Escape. It seems the 2002 models have a build quality that is up where it should be.

    I am currently driving a 2002 Bravada for 2 weeks. I am on company business and got it as my rental. It has 22k on it and has been treated like crap (dents, scratches inside and out). All in all it runs great. It is only getting 16mpg in mixed driving. Haven't noticed any rattles. Engine is still smooth idling. There is a whistling noise around one of the windows above 60mph. This is annoying. I think I would opt for the Envoy or Trailblazer because the Smartrack system doesn't work that well in the snow. I would rather have a knob on the dash that lets me have some control over the 4wd system.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    Yes, I meant the Trailblazer - 2002, inline 6, bigger and better. Much improved from the previous Blazer, but still shoddy. The plastics still had rough edges on some parts. Another shoddy build complaint - interior plastic parts that were supposed to interconnect never made it to their final destination. The same on the outside - the edges of the front and rear light covers did not quite match up to their intended slots. I remarked that with time, rain water can accumulate inside of them because they're not on as tight as they were intended to be.

    When compared with the outrageously huge bumper gap on the back end of the Dodge Durango, the Trailblazer is in a different league. I know that larger cars tend to have larger body panel gaps, but when compared to a Toyota Highlander or an Acura MDX, the build quality of the Chevy is shoddy at best.

    But getting back on topic, have we found out where that 9.3 second time for the Escape came from? What "previous test" was Edmunds talking about?
  • It's amazing how much mis-information there is out there on the internet. Aside from a dozen or so safety recalls, fires and other life threatening safety hazards that Ford has had to correct on the Escape/Tribute, hear are some other facts you might be interested in. You mention Gas mileage versus the Liberty; 18 city 23 Hwy versus 16/20. 3 mpg equals $3 a month in gas savings for a normal person. I would rather get a solid vehicle that can actually tow something for that huge extra expense.

    Second you mention that the Escape is much roomier than the Liberty. If you check Ford's website and compare the two, it is only bigger in 3 dimensions.
    Front leg room: 41.6 versus 40.8 inches. Wow huge by .4 inches.
    Second Row Hip Room: 49 versus 47.4 inches. Another wopping 1.6 inches.
    Cargo Room: 33 versus 29 cubic feet. Basically one more suitcase.

    These are actual stats, not to mention that interior build quality is superior to everything in the market short of Lexus. Transmission problems are reported falsly. This Tranny has been around since `99 and been flawless in everything from Durangos to Ram 1500.

    The decision is really clear. If you are patriotic, you will buy domestic products. If you are concerned about safty/reliability/longetivity, you will buy the Jeep. (In case you missed the news over the last year, Ford had to sell $10,000,000,000 in bonds to stay afloat because quality issues in everything they sell, shortage in sales and all the costly recalls in everything have cost them billions. Not to mention all of the lawsuits on everything from selling totalled Explorers as New ones to killing people on the tire issue in multiple countries.)

    Yeah, I want to buy from them... LOL.

    Chrysler has two great honors. The minivans have the fewest fatalities per accident of any vehicle ever sold in America and Jeeps have that honor for SUV's.
  • I have driven both and the Liberty feels far more stable than the Escape does but not as stable as the Honda to be honest. The Liberty also held up better in the crash test. If you look at the Escape, it buckled the entire roof and frame. The Liberty recieved a Marginal because the dummy's head leaned out the window after the test was done. Which to me is human error in placement of the dummy in the seat.
  • I own a 1997 Dodge Ram SS/T with the 360 V8 and every available option.

    I love the truck but it is the biggest piece of crap I have ever owned!
    It was in the shop 34 yes 34 times by its 3rd birthday. I finally had to take Dodge to court to get them to fix all of the problems. The only reason I didn't get them to buy it back was because I really liked the truck when I wasn't driving a loaner.

    Here are the top 6 problems:
    *Transmission slipping
    *Steering column replaced 3 times for binding while driving down the road.
    *HVAC that would only come out through the defrost
    *Oil consumption 1quart every 500miles.
    *Rattling Lifters
    *Runs in the factory paint

    All I got were excuses from Dodge. As much as I like the vehicles they make, the build quality is beyond poor.

    They have had many, yes many recalls and TSBs on their transmissions (mainly Truck and minivan).

    I don't know what Liberty you drove but the one I drove was very unstable and cramped inside. I drove the Escape and Tribute right after the Liberty. My wife and I both felt more in control of the Escape and felt we had more room.

    The 8.25 to 8.5 0-60 time (source autosite.com) makes it more fun to drive than the slower liberty (0-60 10.0 sec).

    Another plus for the Escape, it stops in about 145feet from 60mph. The liberty takes 197 feet. That could mean the difference between rear ending someone or not. That is 52 feet!
  • Liberty crash scores:
    Driver: Not Tested
    Passenger: Not Tested
    Side Impact Front: Not Tested
    Side Impact Rear: Not Tested
    Crash Offset: Marginal
    Bumper Bash: Poor
    Rollover Rating: Poor

    Escape Crash Test Scores:
    Driver: Excellent
    Passenger: Good
    Side Impact Front: Excellent
    Side Impact Rear: Excellent
    Crash Offset: Marginal
    Bumper Bash: Acceptable
    Rollover Rating: Average

    This data is from Edmunds.com
  • Yes the Escape/Tribute did have a rocky first year. Don't exagerate the recalls. The recalls were due to error during assembly not faulty design. The only two that were really potentially dangerous was the steering nut coming off and the 2wd rear hub separating.

    These have been taken care of and so far no recalls.

    Liberty has already had a serious one that would not have been caught if the insurance institute hadn't crash tested it. Having the airbag deploy late and punching you in the face could be deadly, escpecially for a small person that sits less than 9 inches from the steering wheel.

    Ford screwed up the first year because they were in a hury. It seems they have fixed the problems in the 2002 model.
  • canadatwocanadatwo Posts: 198
    Yes, the Liberty is a heftier, more capable oo-roader than the Escape. But again, that does not make it safer!

    1. Crash tests
    Post #26 summarizes the crash test data very well.
    2. Braking Distance
    An extra 50 feet for 60-0. The Escape truly has an amazingly short stopping distance. This is OFTEN the difference between getting into an accident and avoiding it. There are many Liberty owners complaining about the brakes on the Liberty
    3. Rollover tendancy
    Two magazines knock the Liberty for this. Cant wait to see what those folks at Consumer Reports have to say about this.

    IMHO, the Escape is probably the safer vehicle in day to day, on-road driving.
  • A 1997 Dodge Ram is not a 2002 Liberty but nice try.


    Follow this link: http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0105.htm#5

    This is the photo of the Ford Escape receiving the lowest safety rating in its class. Surprisingly enough Hyundai was the best. Then look at the Jeep Liberty at (http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0127.htm) and see how well it did. Not a single Poor rating in it's list. Do some research at www.iihs.org and you will find some good stuff.


    The 45RFE Auto transmission has been near flawless for 3 years now.


    I still have a problem buying from a company that has lied to it's customers (lawsuit by ford employees stating they sold totalled Explorers and labelled them as new) and has had the safety problems and recall problems they have had. Their reputation is showing with sales of thier vehicals reaching a 32 year low market share at 19.7%. People are getting smarter and not buying their poorly engineered cars and trucks.

    Not to keep up with my point but the headlines read "Competitors poised as Ford slips."

  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    Pales in comparison to the Escape. For it to have a bigger and torquier engine, it doesn't use its power as efficiently as the Escape.

    It looks like a big Barbie car, anyway. And if one were to brag about its off-road prowess, Car And Driver just did a comparo between the Liberty and the Land Rover Freelander...they gave the nod to the Land Rover.
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