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CR-V vs Escape

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  • crvgirlcrvgirl Posts: 27
    Maybe I am missing something, but if I have a car seat in the back of my Escape, there is no way you are fitting two adults in the remaining part of the seat. Not in any comfort at least. Good car seats nowadays are the size of barco-loungers. In fact, I cannot fit two directly next to each other.

    That's one nice thing about the CR-V - since the back seat is 60/40, when you install a carseat in the center, one passenger can sit on the 40 side (behind the driver) and have plenty of room. I sit there very comfortably even on loooooong (i.e., hundreds of miles) trips. An adult can sit on the other side for short trips, but it's pretty cramped. I've been able to put three seats back there as well (one Britax Roundabout and two Graco combination boosters). It's a bit of a squeeze, but it can be done.
  • bessbess Posts: 972
    Your quote:
    "If the Escape is a better vehicle, Ford has greater sales resources, and the Escape shares a host of other advantages (incentives, domestic industry ties, etc.), why doesn't it crush the sales of the CR-V?"

    a. I claim the Escape and CRV nearly equal vehicles. That has always been my claim. Both are good..
    b. You assertion of Fords 'greater sales resources' (than Honda) is not correct. As I stated before there is a Honda dealership in every city.. So everyone has an equal opportunity to buy a CRV or Escape..

    c. sales incentives. First someone will claim that the CRV is the same price as the Escape and that the CRV has a higher resale value (which KBB disputes), then they'll claim the Escape is only selling because it's cheaper.. (which if true, means with the Escape you're getting closer to what you paid for it when you sell it).
    My experience is that a person can get an equally equiped Escape for much less $$ than the CRV. I also do agree that this does help boost Fords sales numbers, as the Escape is a better value,(same vehilce as CRV for less money)

    None of the above would support the notion that Ford Escape should be 'crushing' the CRV in sales..

    Your other quote:
    "Actually, sales per dealership is the way the industry measures success. It's kinda like the way retail stores measure profits per square foot."

    is something I was not aware of.

    However as I stated in my previous post, Ford overall sells many many more vehilces than Honda does, so there is enough demand for Ford products to support the extra dealerships. When you start talking about 'Escapes' specifically, it makes sense that most Ford dealerships will sell less Escapes than most Honda dealerships, because there are more Ford dealerships available to a single buyer than Honda.

    For example: in an area there are 4 Ford dealerships and 1 Honda dealership that are all a resonable distance from each other, (less than 60 miles apart for example)
    Ford dealership1 sells an Escape
    Ford dealership2 sells an F150
    Ford dealership3 sells an F150
    Ford dealership4 sells an Explorer
    Honda dealership sells a CRV.

    In that area, Ford is selling the same number of Esscapes as Honda is CRV's. Yet all of the dealerships are getting similar sales numbers and are able to stay in business and have similar efficiency ratings (sales/dealership).

    So in affect, Ford is 'crushing' Honda in terms of total vehicle sales, thus supporting the many dealerships.
  • corynatcorynat Posts: 52
    How does the 60/40 change how the car seats go in? Aren't the anchors still in the exact middle of the seat?

    I could have someone squeeze next to the infant seat when I had it in the middle, but the Britax Husky booster we got takes up one side and part of the middle.

    I have an infant on the way and there is no way I would be able to get the infant carrier base in the spot directly next to the booster without them pressing on each other. They are just too big.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    To add to what bess posted back in #3887:

    I think the notion of production numbers was brought up before too. Ford/Mazda don't produce many more (if any more at all) copies of the twins than Honda does of the CR-V. We found these numbers a long time ago and posted them here if anyone cares to search back for them.

    Anyway, if Ford/Mazda did produce more they'd probably be offering $2000-$3000 rebates on them right now which would boost sales way past those of the CR-V. For some reason or another they've decided to keep this one at the level of the competition which makes it sort of unique for the brand.

    The Liberty, the current sales champ, has a lot to do with the sales of these two as well. I would guess that a lot of current Liberty owners would be Escape owners had the Jeep never come to market. Simply because of the "buy American" thing. I doubt they'd turn to the Tracker or Sportage to keep the off-road ability of the Jeep.
  • crvgirlcrvgirl Posts: 27
    How does the 60/40 change how the car seats go in? Aren't the anchors still in the exact middle of the seat?

    The center seat is not ~exactly~ in the center. The left seat takes up 40% of the bench (as opposed to the 33% it would take if the seats were all of equal size). The center and right seat share the remaining 60%. So the center seat is shifted slighly to the right.

    I could have someone squeeze next to the infant seat when I had it in the middle, but the Britax Husky booster we got takes up one side and part of the middle.

    Yes, the Husky is more like a seat-and-a-half, isn't it? I know an adult could sit comfortably next to a center-installed infant seat, but probably not next to a center-installed Husky. I wonder if you could install it on the 40% side of the CR-V and still install an infant seat in the middle. Maybe you should go try this at a Honda dealership and report back to us - I'd love to know! ;->
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    Then there's the Taurus wagon which has almost as much cargo room as the Explorer but with added benefits like better fuel mileage that even icvci would like.

    Unfortunately, even though the Taurus is much more aerodynamic than the CR-V, EPA numbers are almost identical to the Taurus. And of course, according to the EPA, the CR-V has a cleaner burning engine.

    Plus, you get AWD with either the Escape or the CR-V.

    Why would anyone buy a Taurus wagon? Seems Ford is asking itself the same question.

    After re-reading your post you compared it to the Explorer, not the Escape. Sorry. The wagon does have 9 CU. FT. more max cargo area than the CR-V. And 16 more CU. FT. than the Escape. However, the Explorer has 7 CU. FT more than the Taurus. Not really much of a comparo. I would say they're (Explorer - Taurus) not cross-shopped any more than a S2000 and a Civic.

    If added dealers don't equal added sales, why would Ford bother?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Why is Honda coming out with another wagon then?
    I just don't buy the "Ford has more dealerships, it should be selling 4x more Escapes" reasoning. The fact is.. Honda has dealerships in every major city and then some. In my mid-size town I have 7 Honda dealerships and 12 Ford dealerships all within about a 100 mile radius. Honda has every bit of the ability to sell to the masses just as Ford does. Another thing you must also take into account is, some Ford dealerships are more market oriented. For example: There is a Ford dealership in Sandy, Oregon. They are closer to the Cascade range and in a rural area. They carry more trucks like Rangers, F-series, Expeditions, Excursions, Superduties than lets say, Taurus or Focus or Escapes that are more for your city dwellers..
    As far as pricing of the CRV and Escape. CRV just plain costs more than a like equipped Escape. And, you get more choices with the Escape in trim levels you want.
    In todays paper they are asking almost $19,000 dollars for the Element!! Yeeeeouch!! Right beside it is an Escape V6 XLT 4WD for about $300 more.. Want proof? Give me your e-mail address and I will mail you the dealership, VIN#'s and a phone #.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "You assertion of Fords 'greater sales resources' (than Honda) is not correct. As I stated before there is a Honda dealership in every city.. So everyone has an equal opportunity to buy a CRV or Escape."

    Yes, most everyone has access to a single Honda dealer. But for every Honda dealer, there are four or five Ford dealers. That makes Fords more visible, more convenient, and provides more opportunities for sales. If you have a beef with the local Honda retailer, you may have to travel to find another. Not so with Ford.

    I never questioned whether or not Ford was financially justified in having these dealers. Not sure why you bring it up?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    "The wagon does have 9 CU. FT. more max cargo area than the CR-V. And 16 more CU. FT. than the Escape. However, the Explorer has 7 CU. FT more than the Taurus. Not really much of a comparo."

    How do you figure? It falls right in the middle of the two meaning it would be cross shopped with both. I even have a neighbor who traded in his 99 Explorer for a 2002 Taurus wagon just for the better fuel mileage.

    AWD/4WD becomes a lot less appealing too when the one without it costs $10,000 less but has the same amount of space and saves you money at the pump.
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    Please post a link, I'd love to see it. (Not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to see it.)

    The Taurus is a dog. The other cars in it's class eat it for an afternoon snack.

    He sold his Explorer for a wagon? NICE! You mean he didn't need to tow everything AND drive over everything? It's cool when people re-think their needs.
  • corynatcorynat Posts: 52
    Interesting. I did not realize the belts sort of stayed with the portion of the seat like that. So, can you have the car seat in the middle and fold the other portion of the back seat flat? That would be handy.

    My neighbor has a new CR-V. I should try it in his and see. I have my doubts though. My wife has an Expedition and there is not much room between the seats when they are next to each other, although they do fit.

    I am not sure when they got so huge. Have to say, the kids seats look more comfy than the adult seats nowadays.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Honda has a wagon in other markets. They always have. There has been some recent publicity about the Euro Accord wagon because it has a very cool commercial, but there have been no announcements about bringing it over to the US.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    "You mean he didn't need to tow everything AND drive over everything? It's cool when people re-think their needs."

    He's a plumber and has many other trucks at his disposal for that sort of thing. He did use the Explorer for towing several things though. Not on a daily basis, but still, he didn't really need it.

    Interior and exterior appearance qualify as "needs" too. Not everyone is as fond of Japanese styling as others are.
  • crvgirlcrvgirl Posts: 27
    Interesting. I did not realize the belts sort of stayed with the portion of the seat like that. So, can you have the car seat in the middle and fold the other portion of the back seat flat? That would be handy.

    Exactly. The left side is completely independent of the rest of the bench - it can recline, fold, and even move forward or backward on its own.

    Have to say, the kids seats look more comfy than the adult seats nowadays.

    Especially the Husky - it looks like a big plush recliner, doesn't it? :-)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Some here say Ford only sells vehicles because of thier incentives. Yet, plastered all over todays paper Honda too is offering special financing.. Some also claim there are shortages of CRV's or even Pilots or Elements.. Send me your e-mail address. I can give you one dealers that has 15 Pilots, 13 Elements and 21!! yes, 21 CRV's..
  • corynatcorynat Posts: 52
    Gotcha. For some reason it just hit me that the center would be like 20%. I was think of it equally and trying to envision the seat belts.

    I have to say, I just took the seat out of my wife's car to pick up some furniture and put it back in. I am not sure the latch system is any easier than the regular belt to install. I think the latch feels snugger without the tether attached but they seem equally snug once you ratchet up the tether.

    Who is it that has the built-in seat now in their vans? That sounds like a pretty good idea, depending on the seat quality.
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    They're nice...until they get dirty. The Volvo 40 series wagons have them. I don't know which other vehicles offer them.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    "The Volvo 40 series wagons have them."

    The new XC90 has one as well and it's pretty cool. My wife and I played with it at the car show. It (the whole section of the rear bench) slides forward so people in the front seat can interact with the child without having to remove their seat belt, and doubles as a booster seat when the kid gets older. Pretty slick if you ask me.

    I think the Caratownandcountravan's have one as an option too. However, the one's I've seen in those vans looked pretty cheap.
  • corynatcorynat Posts: 52
    I know with the new Expeditions you can slide the entire center section forward so you can reach a little one. That is a nice idea. I wonder if it powered. How cool would that be? Hit a switch and the whole car seat moves towards you. Wow. Am I lazy or what?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,413
    Were an option when I got my Quest. One rumor is that they can make the seat "lumpy" for adult passengers. Never had the pleasure myself.

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  • crvgirlcrvgirl Posts: 27
    I didn't know the Expedition had the 2nd-row seat that scoots closer to the front. The Volvo XC90 does, and the new Sienna does as well. Nice feature.

    I would personally avoid the integrated carseats. They're not particularly good as carseats, and not particularly comfortable as regular seats, so you're paying extra for two mediocre products. Put that money on a good carseat instead.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    This room has died hard! I know where the varmits, icvi, Hondaman and all the other Honda employees have gone.. over to the Jeep Liberty vs CRV room. Go take a look. Alot of the posts look like what can be found here in the Escape vs CRV room..
    Oh well.. guess I'll go mow the lawn....
  • odie6lodie6l Hershey, PaPosts: 1,078
    Sorry scape , it's been to nice out to post and plus with the little one coming soon, well you know.
    Plus I'm still pissed at myself for the door thing, put hey I get a free paint job out of it.

    Odie
  • crvgirlcrvgirl Posts: 27
    I know where the varmits, icvi, Hondaman and all the other Honda employees have gone.. over to the Jeep Liberty vs CRV room. Go take a look. Alot of the posts look like what can be found here in the Escape vs CRV room.

    Yeah, and it's ridiculous. Why can't people just admit the CR-V is best for some buyers, and the Liberty is best for others? The CR-V happens to meet more of my needs, and includes less "fluff" that I don't want or need. That doesn't mean it's "better" than the Liberty. It's just better for me. Same as the CR-V vs Escape discussion.
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    I come closer to working for Ford than Honda. But, you're right, this is a better place when you cut your lawn instead of typing. Why not do your whole neighborhood and give us all a break?

    Maybe you can tow your mower?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I got quite a laugh at that one... I have enough lawn to mow. However, I'm sure your quite familiar with lawn mower engines, you have one in your CRV!! LOL!
    We all know Honda just hides screw-ups better than Ford..
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    Then I guess we know you don't work for Honda.

    Not the TSB thing again? Go to NHTSA like everyone else and look them up! I'll give you a count -

    Escape -6
    CR-V - 1

    Heck, if I've got a lawn mower engine, it must be embarassing to get smoked by a CR-V at a stop light. Yeah, yeah, I know, you pull stuff and like to go voom voom on the hilly terrain and my CR-V can't pull your toys on the hills.

    Whatever.

    If I was going to buy a jalopy to tow junk, I'd have bought a good looking one, like the Liberty. And you can tell the guys on that board I said so. I think the Liberty looks great. Your mini-Grand Cherokee wanna-be just doesn't cut it for me.

    GM's getting smart and using Honda and Toyota engines, will Ford?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    "If I was going to buy a jalopy to tow junk, I'd have bought a good looking one, like the Liberty."

    If you ask me, the Escape and Liberty look a lot more alike than the CR-V and Liberty. You even said yourself that the Escape looks like a Jeep. Where does that leave the CR-V's looks in your book? :)

    "GM's getting smart and using Honda and Toyota engines, will Ford?"

    Why? They now have resources such as Volvo, Mazda, and Jaguar to spruce up their engines if need be.

    At least those divisions know how to squeeze power out of the engines without having to wind them to the moon. I'll take that over a year or two more of durability that I'll never need any day.

    On the other hand, Ford did buy the Escape's hybrid system from Toyota.

    On the TSB count:

    Escape 5
    CR-V 1

    One of the five for the Escape was a note to the dealers that an underbody heat shield has been discontinued. So really there are 4.

    Has Honda submitted all of their TSB's yet? Even last year the CR-V looked almost TSB-free until about mid-year. There could be some government requirement to submit them around that time for all we know. I could be completely off, but this is all very familiar because we've discussed it so many times.

    Maybe we'll do another count towards the end of the year. ;)
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    If you ask me, the Escape and Liberty look a lot more alike than the CR-V and Liberty. You even said yourself that the Escape looks like a Jeep. Where does that leave the CR-V's looks in your book? :)

    The Escape has nothing in common with the Liberty. The Escape has me-too styiling and in my opinion, wants to be a mini-Grand Cherokee. The Liberty and the CR-V can be picked out from the crowd. In broad daylight, from any angle, you aren't going to mistake the CR-V or the Liberty for anything but the vehicles they are. That can't be said of the Escape. (And that's not just my opinion.

    As we all say, styling is subjective.

    Spruce up their engines? I don't think GM bought the Honda and Toyota engines due to their "sprucing". The engines found in the XR Matrix and Geo Prizim aren't "spruced". I think it had more to do with quality and availability.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,413
    There used to be a disclaimer on the Alldata site, Baggs, that said Honda (and one or two others - BMW?) did not furnish them with TSBs.

    They probably mean the full text, since I'm pretty sure the manufacturers have to submit TSBs to the NHSTA (that's where we get our summaries from). No idea what the time requirements are for providing them to NHTSA.

    Ah, here's the Alldata full text disclaimer.

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