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CR-V vs Escape

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Comments

  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Not a mistake. A person entered this room whom was non=bias. He/She quoted an article from a Magazine stating the CRV automatic made a 0-60 time of 11.3 seconds. The times you continue to quote are from a 5spd not an automatic. How can you "rev" the Escape to redline its an automatic? I personally have test drove an automatic CRV and there is no way it is as quick as the Escape. Anyone who tests drives and compares the two will feel the differnce immediatly.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,209
    I think it's called footbraking (as opposed to the transbrake device). Hard on the tranny, but it'll launch the car faster off the line.

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    OK, once again I will post prices, vin#'s and dealership names and phone numbers here at Edmunds this weekend. ONE time I made a mistake by puting in 2WD Escapes, ONE time. I will prove for the 4th time that the Escape in my region is less than a comparably equipped CRV.

    I am still waiting form the CRV crowd for a Dealership and a phone number and vin# for where you can get a CRV-EX for $20,500.... I am waiting..........................drive? varmit? civc? whomever... prove it..!
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    You many include the name of dealership in your posts but no contact information such as telephone numbers.

    tidester, host
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    If you can buy a CR-V EX for $20,500 then there has to be some kind of incentive on it. Otherwise the dealer is losing a lot of money on each one and no Honda dealer I've ever come across will go for that. Asking for invoice insults them from my experience.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "The times you continue to quote are from a 5spd not an automatic." - scape

    You are wrong. The TT article I am quoting compared an automatic CR-V to an automatic Escape.

    "How can you "rev" the Escape to redline its an automatic?" - scape

    Step on the gas hard and hold it down until the transmission shifts.

    If you are referring to clutch-drop launching, then Steve is correct regarding foot-braking. We remind you of this stuff every time 0-60 acceleration is brought up.

    And, BTW, for the sake of anyone else reading this stuff (for the 50th time)... Red-lining an engine and side stepping the clutch will not always result in the best acceleration times. It often results in way too much wheelspin and the car goes no where. As noted earlier, such an action would cause the CR-V's AWD to deactivate making wheelspin an even bigger issue.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I guess I cannot give dealerhip phone numbers. If you are in question and want a dealership number e-mail me at Sarduci1@aol.com

    Courtesy Ford
    05 Escape XLT 4x4 5 @ $20,875
    3.0 V6
    Full power options
    Speed control
    air
    power 6way seats
    05 Escape XLS 6@ $15,675
    2.3 4cyl
    automatic
    air
    power options
    CD player
    This is Front wheel drive not 4x4..
    Dicks Mekenzie Ford
    05 XLS 3 @ 15,788 4x2 4cyl
    05 Escape XLS 17,988 4x4 4cyl
    05 Escape XLT 4x4 5 @ 20,488
    Landmark Ford
    05 Escape Limited 4 @ 21,777
    Leather, AC, 3.0 V6, Moon roof
    Now for Honda
    Tonkin Honda
    CRV EX auto
    MSRP of 23,040
    This is the lease for 279 a month, you need to put down $2,696 to get this lease. This is a lease, not a buy.
    Beaverton Honda
    CRV LX 4x4 lease
    249 a month. need to have 2,616 dollars down to get this lease price per month. MSRP is 20,890, sale price is 19,570.
    This is proof here folks. I am not going to type this all out again. An LX CRV for 19,570 vs an XLT Escape for $20,488. a 1000 dollar difference. The XLT has more options than an LX CRV. I called on the XLS Escape for $17,988. It is optioned with a 4cyl and very close to the CRV LX. A 1,500 dollar difference!
    Proof, you pay more for Honda products. Your resale should be better.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    CR rated the CRV as most reliable! LOL!! this is proof that bias runs at CR.. even with all the CRV recalls and the engine fire fiasco... There is bias at CR and it shows! I would have believed the Liberty, VUE, RAV4 orr even the Santa Fe as being most reliable over the CRV!
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,209
    Last I heard there were ~30 engine fires that triggered Honda's notice to dealers to check for double gaskets, etc. at the first oil change. Maybe 130 reports at the NHTSA of issues (not necessarily fires).

    I haven't about any Escape stalling issues lately - did Ford get that little fiasco fixed? Hmmm, the last report on an '03 stalling was back on June 7th; maybe the stalls are tapering off. (Complaint Number 10083407)

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • arizonajoearizonajoe Posts: 123
    By the way, the MSRP for the 2005 Escape keeps creeping up for some reason. The XLT 4WD started at $25090 (incl. destination), then went to $25120, and is now at $25295 - two increases in the same model year over a span of maybe five months. The rebate is $1500 or $1000, so I'm skeptical that you could actually buy one at the prices scape2 cited.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    That's exactly what I was pointing out a few posts back. All domestic, maybe some foreign too, manufacturers are practicing these sticker hikes. You are seeing bigger cash rebates these days but the stickers have gone up as well. The deals aren't always as sweet as they seem.

    The price of an XLT 4WD in 2002 when we bought our original Escape was much lower than what it is now, and with no rebates at all. Not even special financing.

    As for the ability to buy one at the prices scape is quoting, I too am skeptical. It's not that I don't believe the dealer is printing those prices in their ad, but I doubt that they will actually sell you anything at that price. Sounds like a bait and switch proposition to me.

    Either that or Escapes are not very popular in the Pacific Northwest. I know they are extremely popular in my area and pretty much "sell themselves" making advertisements and unbelievable deals on them scarce.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    offer to give dealership phone numbers and even Vehicle Identification numbers printed in the advertisments. If you don't believe me then just let me e-mail you the dealerships phone number so you can see for yourself! I could have given even more prices for Escapes but chose to hold back some.
    As far as Escapes/Tribs not selling well here, there are plenty of them on the road. I would say easily a 3 to 1 ratio of Escapes to CRV's...
    As I was going throught the paper looking at prices. I also noticed Honda's car/van/SUV line is just plain more expensive across the board. In comparing for example a Corolla to a Civic same trim level advertisment puts the Corolla at about $1,200 less than the Civic!@ This just enforces my feelings of Honda products as over priced and over rated. In other chat rooms across the internet people are starting to catch on to this very same feeling. What will Honda have when thier reputation of reliability fades away?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Posting the numbers from the ad is not proof that you can buy one at the specified price. Find someone who bought from there and give us a REAL OTD price.

    For example, I went into a Ford dealer late last year in response to an ad that told me I could buy an '03 Focus SVT 5-door with all the fixin's for some insane price. As it was I didn't qualify for the recent college grad rebate, specific dealer loyalty bonus cash, or military personnel rebate. AND because I am an X-Plan customer, and don't have to put money down, I wasn't going to put the $2000 down that was factored into the ad price. Therefore my price was a good $3000-$4000 more than what was in the ad.

    Needless to say, I didn't buy one.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,627
    you've got to read the 'small print' in any ad.
    we got our '04 limited for less than x-plan(before rebate). we did pay a dealer processing fee, which you shouldn't have to pay with x-plan.
  • drive62drive62 Posts: 637
    No incentives on the CR-V. Honda only does factory to dealer anyway.

    Taking into account the holdback, the CR-V EX w/AT has a cost of about $20680. Obviously if they sold every one at $20500 the dealership wouldn't stay in business very long. But they do sell them at this price.

    Honda's are not gold. They can be bought at or below invoice.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    There was no small print in the ad which is why I went in. I knew something was up but it was fun to test drive the SVT anyway. Great little car for the money.

    We got our Limited for the X-Plan price minus the rebate with special financing thanks to my wife's credit union. In my experience the dealers are always willing to "meet or beat" credit union rates.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    They have to be getting the money from somewhere. Selling anything for a loss is just plain stupid.

    I don't know how Honda's dealer cash works exactly but they could be using un-used cash from another model, which is available after ripping some uninformed customer off, to sell the CR-V's for less.

    How else can you justify a salesman throwing his/her commission out the window and giving the business a loss? The money has to be there somewhere. Honda just does a good job of hiding it.

    Kind of like their TSB lists. :)
  • drive62drive62 Posts: 637
    I don't argue with their business model. They seem to be doing pretty well.
  • drive62drive62 Posts: 637
    Good article from the AP. More to follow:
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    I don't argue with their business model. They seem to be doing pretty well.

    Are you referring to Honda or Honda dealers. I don't think they are one in the same much like how Ford dealers are NOT owned and/or operated by FMC.

    I'm quite sure the Honda business model does not include losses on sales.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    I think that award went to L/M for dealer satisfaction IIRC. Not overall satisfaction.

    I've read a couple of articles stating the same thing as that one. It's no big secret that rebates are hurting the value of domestic vehicles. The quality is still there and that's what they need to push. In fact, one of the other articles stated that the big 2.5 will be airing commercials this fall for that exact purpose so stay tuned.

    Here's one of them and I can't find the other.

    http://www.aemag.com/current_articles/feature_aug04_01.html
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,627
    how about an asterisk? :)
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Ha! No asterisk either. It was one of those "Starting at" price ads. You could buy an SVT at the price they were advertising but you had to have just graduated from college and joined the military.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Key word in this whole article is "perceived". I am surprised you posted this drive. It also states the "Big 3" are "holding thier own" against the Japanese as far as quality and reliabiltiy are concerned. I strongly believe inthe next 10 years more and more Americans are going to start to see just that. Ford/GM Honda whomever will have equal quality/reliability. Heck, I see if fading away across the internet right now! Many are starting to question Honda's prices for the perceived quality/reliability. I am one of those who no longer believe you have to pay the extra 1-3K for a Honda in order to get a reliable/quality vehicle. I am a Honda/Toyota owners worst nightmare.. A person who has experience with Ford vehicles and never had a catastrophic failure... or quality problems to sway me over to Toyota or Honda... AND I have owned Honda products and just don't see what the big deal is??....
  • drive62drive62 Posts: 637
    Why are you surprised that I posted this? I don't think I've talked about quality here. Most of the discussion has been about value.

    I know plenty of people with Big Three vehicles who have had no problems.

    The vast majority of the car buying public sees import brands as having a higher perceived value than those from the Big Three. Due to rebates, incentives, etc. Which we have been discussing, not quality.

    You disagree, which is fine. But you are in the minority, at least according to this article.
  • jopopsyjopopsy Posts: 65
    My wife and I are thinking about kids, so we went out to test drive both the Escape and CRV. We hit the Ford dealer first as I was admittedly more interested in seeing the Escape. This is what we discovered:

    Escape Pros:
    A. We liked the looks better
    B. Doors closed w/ that reassuring 'clunk'; nice and solid
    C. We liked the dashboard layout better

    Escape Cons:
    A. We thought the mechanism to fold the back seats down was left wanting; my wife especially did not like it. Having to remove the headrests and stow them looks like a pain in the a$$.
    B. Transmission. It was slow, or cludgy. The salesman said it took between 1k and 2k miles to 'get to know the driver'. I think that stinks as both my wife and I will be driving it (so how's it going to learn?) and who has 1-2k miles to wait for the thing to perform as expected?
    C. Fit and finish, from cursory inspection, did not seem particulary tight; especially the steering wheel controls.

    CRV Pros:
    A. Cockpit seemed higher to us
    B. Transmission changed gears eagerly and seemed very responsive
    C. With the A/C on and 3 people in both vehicles, I really couldn't discern much difference between the two engines (Honda 4 banger and Ford Duratec V6). ((don't start flaming about the extra 40 HP and 36 ft/lbs of torque. I know all about it, I'm just relaying what I felt)) As much the Ford engine was the bigger selling point initially, I just couldn't 'feel' the big deal.
    D. Sunroof standard on the EX, as is side airbags.

    CRV Cons:
    A. Less truck looking
    B. Didn't like the swing to the side tailgate
    C. Wish the tires were bigger (I hear its a rumored upgrade on the 05's)

    As it stands right now, in a few months we're probably going to go for the 'V'. As much as I regret not going American, at least they finally made a vehicle that got me into an American showroom. So that's progress; maybe next time?

    Jopopsy
    "No, its not my real name"
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "C. Wish the tires were bigger (I hear its a rumored upgrade on the 05's)"

    Technically, it's the rims that we expect to see enlarged. The tires will probably stay the same overall size.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,627
    have an '02 explorer and '04 escape.
     just from my experience, the escape doors, feel pretty thin to me, compared to the explorer.
    it takes awhile for ford engines to break in, many times 8-10k, at least the last couple i have had. the escape only has 5k on it, so i don't know if it will do the same. tranny is pretty clunky to start, but it has seemed to smooth out.
    however, i don't drive it on a daily basis.
    the crv needs to rev to get into the power zone, so unless they start making more torque, it won't change. ford 'mod' engines have to rev more to make the same torque as those old gm engines.
    these just my observations.
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 540
    Looks like you went to Ford dealer with prejudgment. B/C what you have experienced with Escape is not what Escape presents and clearly what others perceive. I had a test drove Tribute yesterday. Coolest SUV I have ever driven in that size (I drove 2004 Vue, 2004 CRV, 2005 Equinox).

    "A. We thought the mechanism to fold the back seats down was left wanting; my wife especially did not like it. Having to remove the headrests and stow them looks like a pain in the a$$."

    I think it is very nice feature; you get nice and flat cargo space. You can even use it for sleeping once you lay down an airbed. I don't think that pulling out headrests is harder than folding the seats down.

    "B. Transmission. It was slow, or cludgy. The salesman said it took between 1k and 2k miles to 'get to know the driver'. I think that stinks as both my wife and I will be driving it (so how's it going to learn?) and who has 1-2k miles to wait for the thing to perform as expected?"

    Strange, the one I drove was very responsive, even with 3 people and AC on. I was feeling the seat on my back when I pushed the gas pedal. Modern car transmissions have adaptive logic. CRV has it too. Looks like, you'll have issue no matter what you buy.

    "C. Fit and finish, from cursory inspection, did not seem particulary tight; especially the steering wheel controls."

    Like I said, you should stick with CRV. Escape/Trib is not for you. I couldn't see any problem with fit and finish. It looked-felt very firm, the one I drove.

    For the CRV part of your posting, I can't make that much comment on.
    I didn't analyze that car for long time, I felt, it was a weak vehicle and cut my test drive short and left the dealer.

    One last word, you will see the I4 - V6 difference
    when you are merging to highway or passing someone on expressway, or driving on hilly roads around mountains or trying to carry ten bags of top soil from Home Depot to your home.

    If CRV is going to be your commute car than I4 is OK. If you are planning to have cargo, passengers then you should consider V6 of any make.

    Good luck with your CRV though.
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