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CR-V vs Escape

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Comments

  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,109
    Let's keep the discussion about the vehicles and not the people who discuss them.

    tidester, host
  • ay50ay50 Posts: 11
    the mental image I get of a Ford Escape with five adults in it, all their luggage, stuff up on the roof rack, and towing a boat or whatever reminds of the vehicle Henry Fonda’s family used in the movie Grapes of Wrath to get from the mid-west to California. Or if you aren’t familiar with that movie, think Beverly Hillbillies.

    Seriously, my friend has a 05 Escape V6 XLT which I have driven and been a passenger in and I have a 04 CRV. Living in California, we’ve made the trip to the Lake Tahoe/Reno NV area (Interstate 80) in both vehicles along with our significant others and kids. My impression of the Escape is that it’s a pleasant vehicle with a comfortable ride with smooth acceleration. Compared to the CRV, it does lack rear leg room and for a long trip I wouldn’t recommend 3 adults (same for the CRV) in the back seat unless they were very close friends. I like the bigger tires on the Escape and it is quieter on certain types of roads. The only problem so far that my friend has mentioned is some hard-starting in the morning with an uneven idle until it is warmed up. I think his best highway mpg has been around 23.

    Having owned the CRV for about a year while putting 25K on the odometer, I can say that, if I wish, I can zoom up the grades on the way to Reno. The difference being the power curve is different on the CRV versus the Escape. The Escape, by virtue of its larger engine, has an easier time of it, while with the CRV; the VTEC needs to get the revs up in order to make the climb. Even around town, I’ve noticed the CRV will feel sluggish at low speeds until I put my foot more into it. But once having put my foot into it, it responds in a hurry. I average 24 mpg city/highway and about 26-28 highway so this sort of driving style is something I can live with. So far, knock on wood, no repairs have been needed or any engine fires, or PTTR issues.

    I’m somewhat amazed by some of the hyperbole and rhetoric being said by both sides about these two vehicles because let’s face it; they’re more utilitarian than anything and don’t generate much excitement in my opinion. Also, the habit of making outrageous statements just meant to inflame the opposite side and keep this topic going is becoming pretty transparent. But hey, if that’s what you’re into, by all means continue, it does make for interesting reading at times.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    " it does make for interesting reading at times "

    Bingo.......
  • fredddfreddd Posts: 14
    I have no problem with the Escape, just wanted to agree with you opinion regarding the fact that the CR-V engine responds very well to being pushed. In fact, the iVtec engines are designed to run at high rpms.

    I have a Saab 4 cylinder turbo also. That car requires you to give it a lot of gas. When you do the turbo kicks in and away you go. I get a similar reaction from the CR-V. I think, if I understand it correctly, the iVtec ingine opens more valves above a certain rpm threshold, or maybe it closes some, I don't really care to understand it deeply. Whatever the case, at about 4500 rpms there is a noticable boost in power, similar to what a turbo engine delivers, but not nearly as smooth.

    If you tow something, fine, get a v6. Otherwise I just don't see the point.

    Just a little aside -- while my wife and I were trying to figure out which car to buy we spotted a CR-V coming towards us on a country road. I pointed it out and as it went by we noticed it was towing a good size boat. What is good size? I don't know much about boats, but I would say at least 15 feet long. The kind of thing one would pull water skiiers behind with seats in the back and in front. Whatever it was it looked awefully big behind the CR-V. We both found it kind of amusing.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Right on! liked your last paragraph about the inflaming opposites sides by making outragious statements just to keep this topic going... I have been in this room for about 4 years now. Same topics, same debates, same old rhetoric...Still fun to get the CRV owners all wound up :-))
    like someone saying I am inadequate in someplaces, that is why I need a V6 Escape.. LOL!! this person was all wound up....
    The Escape is proving to be a reliable vehicle. Ran into a person with an 01 Escape.. 102,000 miles... According to Honda owners Fords aren't supposed to make it past 1,000 miles.... :P
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    " According to Honda owners Fords aren't supposed to make it past 1,000 miles "

    Be careful about making general statements about all Honda owners. Though I'll admit there are some Honda bigots out there (and Ford as well), the bulk of us don't fall in to that category.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    I think, if I understand it correctly, the iVtec ingine opens more valves above a certain rpm threshold, or maybe it closes some, I don't really care to understand it deeply. Whatever the case, at about 4500 rpms there is a noticable boost in power, similar to what a turbo engine delivers, but not nearly as smooth.

    The iVTEC is a combination of VTEC-E used for the first time on a 1993 Honda Civic VX, VTEC used on 1991 Acura NSX, and VTC, which is new.

    from idle to 2500 RPM the engine operates in the VTEC-E (economy) mode, which is your typical 12 valve Honda engine from the early to mid 80's. The fuel charge is highly stratified and the air to fuel ratio is close to 17:1.

    From 2500 to 4500 RPM the engine is your typical 16 valve Honda engine from the early 90's. The fuel ratio is changed to more stoiochemical 14:1.

    From 4500 to 6800 RPM red line the valve's lift and duration is changed for high RPM operation. So is the air to fuel ratio.

    All this time VTC monitors the speed, gear, load, throttle position and adjusts timing to give you the most torque possible for the given combination of inputs.

    Now tell me if that is not a MARVEL of engineering. This is what people call a "Half VTEC" since all the valve work is done on intake only. Acura TSX has the same engine with "Full VTEC" which produces 40 more horses, but requires premium gas to do that. "Full VTEC" adjusts the exhaust valves in a similar fashion to intake valves on "Half VTEC"

    VANOS, MIVEC VVTL-i are all copy cats. Ford has a ZETEC engine which has nothing to do wtih variable valve technology, but is simply a 16 valver similar to 1985 Honda engine. I am sure some young kid thought that ZETEC was just like VTEC and bought it. It is just a marketing ploy.

    Someone who babies their car will get 28 MPG because they will be in the VTEC-E mode, while someone like me, who pushes their Honda engine will get 22 MPG.
  • fredddfreddd Posts: 14
    Thanks for the explaination, very impressive indeed. That would explain why it seems turbo-like to me. My Saab has a sport mode that changes the air/fuel ratio -- performance is noticably better.

    ZETEC, pffft! typical domestic car sneaky garbage. Reminds me of my highschool buddy who had a Cutlass Supreme with fake heater vents on the dash.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Ford has a ZETEC engine which has nothing to do wtih variable valve technology, but is simply a 16 valver similar to 1985 Honda engine.

    FYI, most ZETEC motors had what was called VCT, or Variable Cam Timing, on the exhaust valves. By no means is it as advanced as Honda's current i-VTEC but I do know for a fact that my 2.0L ZETEC w/ VCT powered '98 ZX2 was loads more fun to drive than the 1.6L VTEC powered '96 Civic EX that sat next to it in the garage. And both had an MTX.

    It is also notable that Ford does not use the ZETEC anymore IIRC. The Duratec23 and Duratec20 I4s developed by Mazda have taken the Z's place.

    Now the Duratec30 in the Escape has nothing fancy save for the 24 valve config. However, the Duratec30 in the Mazda6 that sits next to our Escape in the garage now has VVT and is a much nicer version. Still, the lack of low-end torque in the latter makes it a bad fit for the Escape IMO. The extra HP would be nice but it does come at a price.
  • clamclam Posts: 36
    >>Ran into a person with an 01 Escape.. 102,000 miles... According to Honda owners Fords aren't supposed to make it past 1,000 miles....

    I ran into a person who loved their Ford Pinto and claimed it went 300,000 trouble free miles. Clearly all Ford Pintos fall into the same category because that one person claimed it as their experience.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    " I ran into a person who loved their Ford Pinto and claimed it went 300,000 trouble free miles. Clearly all Ford Pintos fall into the same category because that one person claimed it as their experience. "

    I hope you didn't run in to the person in the Ford Pinto from the back of the Pinto. If you did.......*POOF*.........Pintos were noted for that.....LOL
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,800
    "I hope you didn't run in to the person in the Ford Pinto from the back of the Pinto. If you did.......*POOF*.........Pintos were noted for that.....LOL"

    Ummm, and it didn't even matter if the Pinto had just had an oil change... LOL
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,013
    lol, tough crowd.

    And this group must be the reason why we're seeing escalating hp wars:

    Honda Flirts with Development of V8 (Inside Line)

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    Moderator
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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,756
    i guess honda read my post about them being too arrogant to make a v8, although that is what people want. ;)
    honda does make fine small automobile engines, but don't forget, put 2 of those duratecs together and you get an astin martin v12. :)
    have you heard the one about honda being the biggest 'ice' polluter, due to all their lawnmower, snowblower, generator engines? :sick:
  • ay50ay50 Posts: 11
    I don't think I could afford the cost of gas for a V8 in my Honda. The bad news out here in central California is the price of gas at the corner Chevron is 2.72 per gallon for regular and the high temperature hasn't dipped below 105 for about a month now. :cry:

    The good news is I'll be heading for the high sierras this weekend to try and cool off.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Well, if Honda sticks to the 100 to 120 Hp per Liter of displacement, then a 5 liter V8 would make 500-600 Hp. If they stick to the current V6's 75 Hp per liter then a 5 liter V8 would make about 370 HP. I personally, would not buy a V8, but I am sure there are people that "have the need for it." I wish Honda sold HR-V here as an alternative to rather big CR-V. But CR-V is the smallest "trucklet" you can get in the US.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    have you heard the one about honda being the biggest 'ice' polluter, due to all their lawnmower, snowblower, generator engines?

    Honda small engines are one of the few that are legal for sale in California. My Honda lawnmower (2004 year model) meets the 2007 Carb emissions for small engines. Tecumseh and Briggs are slightly behind Honda. But no one can beat Honda's "half a yank" starting. Too bad Honda does not make a decent midsize snow blower. I ended up with Ariens with Tecumseh. When you compare the Honda 5 Hp and Tecumseh 5.5 Hp, Honda runs smoother, queter and is easier to start. Luckily Ariens comes with electric starter, so that I don't have to get "tennis elbow" from trying to start it.

    I have an older 24" Craftsman snow blower that is as old as I am (30). I have been toying with an idea of fitting a Honda GX160 in it, to replace the pretty badly worn Tecumseh 30. I have not been able to find a Honda with PTO and main shafts. Seems like Honda only makes engines with one output shaft. It was almost as much to buy an Ariens 5520E on clearance ($350) as buying Honda GX160 ($190) and then attach the gearing for the PTO shaft.

    But anyway, where is Ford's small power equipment engine? :confuse:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,756
    i thought about buying a new 4 cycle string trimmer, to replace my old 2 cycle. there are plenty of ca approved small engines out there. the trimmer does fit in the escape if i fold down the rear seat.
    also have a 6.5 hp honda snow blower. it works great, although not quiet. when the snow is really heavy, i wish i had the 8 hp big orange. i bought the electric start, but have never used it. neither of those machines would fit in the escape.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    i thought about buying a new 4 cycle string trimmer, to replace my old 2 cycle. there are plenty of ca approved small engines out there. the trimmer does fit in the escape if i fold down the rear seat.
    also have a 6.5 hp honda snow blower. it works great, although not quiet. when the snow is really heavy, i wish i had the 8 hp big orange. i bought the electric start, but have never used it. neither of those machines would fit in the escape.


    The Honda snowblower is a single stage, which is not suitable for Buffalo winters duty. Although some people make do with that. I just don't have time to make 5 passes with single stage, where one pass would do with dual stage. I have not seen dual stage Honda snow blowers. If there was one, I would have bought it.

    But here is the kicker. Both the Craftsman or the Ariens snow blowers (not at the same time) fit in the 2002 Civic Si, with the handles folded. I only transported Ariens in the CR-V, so far, and it fits no problem. I guess CR-V is much bigger than Escape.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,800
    " I wish Honda sold HR-V here as an alternative to rather big CR-V. But CR-V is the smallest "trucklet" you can get in the US."

    I think you mean honda "trucklet"; the RAV 4 is smaller, and I think some of the Korean and Japanese vehicles are smaller as well. Suzuki comes to mind.
  • odie6lodie6l Hershey, PaPosts: 1,078
    I remember when we had a post on here Titled - Your Lawnmower Vs. You SUV - which spends more time off-road? If you want to have a good laugh, read these post. I had to do some digging to find this too.

    Odie
  • johnson5johnson5 Posts: 34
    Living with Honda CRV 3+ years 68 K miles.

    Repairs

    50 K miles replaced catalytic converter 1400 $. Under emission control warranty
    63000 miles the check engine light came again replaced evoparative Caannister under the tank and Oxygen sensor paid 530 dollars. Other than that there are no major repairs.

    CRV is progressively increasing road noise. The seats are uncomfortable
    Gas Mileage highway 24-25 miles remained the same.
    Adequate engine power. Not really that great in winter.

    Complaints some options such as fog lights are too expensive paid 350dollars including installation.

    I guess with the advent of computer controls the electronics are the one failing down. I drove my previous Toyota 4 Runner for 240 K miles. No major repairs. I can not say the same with Honda. The engines may be reliable but not the sensors and other electronic and emission control stuff.
    I do not know howthe escape holds up after 65 K miles.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    I remember when we had a post on here Titled - Your Lawnmower Vs. You SUV - which spends more time off-road? If you want to have a good laugh, read these post. I had to do some digging to find this too.

    Odie


    Thank you. That is a funny thread. I wonder why it is locked now?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Living with Honda CRV 3+ years 68 K miles.

    Repairs

    50 K miles replaced catalytic converter 1400 $. Under emission control warranty
    63000 miles the check engine light came again replaced evoparative Caannister under the tank and Oxygen sensor paid 530 dollars. Other than that there are no major repairs.

    CRV is progressively increasing road noise. The seats are uncomfortable
    Gas Mileage highway 24-25 miles remained the same.
    Adequate engine power. Not really that great in winter.

    Complaints some options such as fog lights are too expensive paid 350dollars including installation.

    I guess with the advent of computer controls the electronics are the one failing down. I drove my previous Toyota 4 Runner for 240 K miles. No major repairs. I can not say the same with Honda. The engines may be reliable but not the sensors and other electronic and emission control stuff.
    I do not know howthe escape holds up after 65 K miles.


    If you are still running OEM tires, you were probably due to replace them some 20,000 miles ago. That would explain the winter driving dissatisfaction and increasing road noise.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,013
    Thank you. That is a funny thread. I wonder why it is locked now?

    I think it was an off-shoot of Aztek bashing and I Don't Like SUVs Why Do You, and it wasn't exactly topical. It was also high maintenance with a post or two needing attention for profanity or the like every day.

    It was fun to ruminant over those awful puns though. Or is it ruminate? :shades:

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
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  • odie6lodie6l Hershey, PaPosts: 1,078
    Like steve said, the posts started to get touchy to some people. A bunch of us tried to keep them clean but you know how things can get. But you have to admit it Steve, some of the CLEAN POSTS got very funny.

    Odie :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,756
    you know what they say, 'the grass is always greener on the other side'. ok, i was just trying to get your goat. :) i read all the pages earlier. :sick:
  • odie6lodie6l Hershey, PaPosts: 1,078
    let's not goat there.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I went to www.alldata.com and now Honda TSB's are posted??? Hmmm... I wonder why? For years at this site when you clicked the TSB's for any Honda vehicle you would get a notice from Alldata stating Honda does not share TSB information.. Looks like Honda was pressured into allowing this information onto this site and for all to see..I love the internet!.. information galore.
    I just state the 1,000 max mileage out of a Ford product because this is what some Honda militia like to spout out in these forums. Fords unreliable, garbage ect.. Yet, if you get out on the net, visit other auto sites. Reliability in vehicles is not really a topic anylonger. All brands across the board have made leaps and bounds in the reliability department. The new buzz word is "refinement". In the coming years car makers are going to have to produce vehicles people desire. Well, got to go change my oil on my Escape.. Cheers...
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,800
    "let's not goat there."

    Did you mean "gloat" or "go"? Or is there a joke in there somewhere?
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