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CR-V vs Escape

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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Not sure what VSC will do for body roll and handling prowess other than hit the brakes in an emergency-type situation. 15 MPH isn't exactly emergency speed :)
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,844
    "Not sure what VSC will do for body roll and handling prowess other than hit the brakes in an emergency-type situation. "

    VSC keeps the car from rolling over or otherwise losing control. Even if the body rolls a bit, I would have confidence it won't go out of control.

    I would have gotten the 2006 Escape Hybrid if VSC was available.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,915
    i find our old '04 escape has perfectly normal overall handling/braking feel.
    i guess it 'depends' on what you are used to. ;)
  • richk6richk6 Posts: 87
    CR mentions the 08 Ford/Mazda Escape/Tribute will have standard stability control, but does not recommend the 07 versions because they tipped up in government rollover tests.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797

    VSC keeps the car from rolling over or otherwise losing control. Even if the body rolls a bit, I would have confidence it won't go out of control.

    I would have gotten the 2006 Escape Hybrid if VSC was available.


    Body roll is not an indicative of the vehicle's tendency to roll over. A Freightliner/Mack truck does not lean much, but you take it around a corner at speed and it will roll over.

    Roll over is a function of the wheel width, speed and cornering angle. Body roll is just not very comfortable thing. It may limit the traction you get at the opposing end of the vehicle (turck leans to the right front, lower traction at left rear). But don't confuse the two.

    VSC may or may not help with roll over. Someone doing 90 mph, driving with one hand on the phone and the other holding a coffee cup, while tweaking the radio is not going to benefit from VSC when they jerk the wheel.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    VSC may or may not help with roll over. Someone doing 90 mph, driving with one hand on the phone and the other holding a coffee cup, while tweaking the radio is not going to benefit from VSC when they jerk the wheel.

    You guys are forgetting that Ford's system is the same as Volvo's and includes RSC, or Roll Stability Control. Now I don't know how much it can do in blue's example but it is supposedly a very good system from what I've read.

    Our Explorer has the new system with RSC and I can't say I ever activated the roll system for sure but I may have and not known it. The only time the VSC/RSC light flashed is when I swerved to miss a deer doing ~45 mph on a local highway. The manuever was so smooth I was shocked. I was expecting tipping and skidding but instead it was like a normal pass around a disabled vehicle in the road if that makes sense. The kids in the back didn't even flinch and my wife still can't believe there's no damage to the truck. We were really close to it when it jumped out in front of us.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,476
    Most roll-overs happen when high center-of-gravity vehicles leave the roadway...

    The reason that VSC equipped vehicles have fewer roll-overs is directly attributable to the driver NOT losing control of the car, and then leaving the road..

    Some high-end vehicles have anti-rollover technology, but the standard VSC in most vehicles have nothing to specifically help that. They just help you to maintain control.

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,915
    do you mean the government rollover index? that is a static test.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Some high-end vehicles have anti-rollover technology, but the standard VSC in most vehicles have nothing to specifically help that. They just help you to maintain control.

    Every new Ford, i.e. it's new SUVs and CUVs, with AdvanceTrac and RSC has the same exact roll control as every new Volvo. It's not just higher end vehicles that have the roll control anymore and IIRC Ford was the first to offer it in a mainstream vehicle. with the 2005 Expedition. I'm pretty sure GM has something similar in it's SUVs too now. Don't know if it's as good or better than the Volvo system in the Fords though.

    I think all it really is is an extra gyroscope and computer code.
  • richk6richk6 Posts: 87
    CR has NHTSA rollover ratings which are based on a static measurement of a vehicles center of gravity in the april auto issue safety section.

    They also state "For light trucks NHTSA also uses a dynamic (moving) driving maneuver test. Vehicles that tip up on two wheels in that test are noted with an asterisk".

    In the vehicle profiles section CR says the 07 Escape, Tribute, Mercury Mariner and Saturn Vue tipped up in the rollover test.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,844
    "#8219 of 8220 Re: VSC [kyfdx] by baggs32 Mar 29, 2007 (5:58 pm)
    Replying to: kyfdx (Mar 29, 2007 2:36 pm)
    Some high-end vehicles have anti-rollover technology, but the standard VSC in most vehicles have nothing to specifically help that. They just help you to maintain control.

    Every new Ford, i.e. it's new SUVs and CUVs, with AdvanceTrac and RSC has the same exact roll control as every new Volvo. "

    OK, but this discussion started when I stated that the 2006 Escape Hybrid I was considering seemed tippy, and that year did not have any stability control.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,915
    here is the nhtsa definition of the dynamic test and 'tip':

    9. How is the dynamic maneuvering test conducted?

    The dynamic maneuvering test uses a heavily loaded vehicle, to represent a five-occupant load, and a full tank of gas. Using a fishhook pattern, the vehicle simulates a high-speed collision avoidance maneuver—steering sharply in one direction, then sharply in the other direction—within about one second. Test instruments on the vehicle measure if the vehicle's inside tires lift off the pavement during the maneuver ("inside" meaning the left wheels if turning left, and the right wheels if turning right). The vehicle is considered to have tipped up in the maneuver if both inside tires lift at least two inches off the pavement simultaneously.

    The tip-up/no tip-up results are then used with the SSF measurement as inputs in a statistical model that estimates the vehicle's overall risk of rollover in a single-vehicle crash. The overall risk of rollover for the particular vehicle will fall into one of five ranges of rollover risk and thus determine its star rating (1 through 5 stars).

    seems vague to me. what is 'high speed'? it didn't actually roll over, either. it just felt like it.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    OK, but this discussion started when I stated that the 2006 Escape Hybrid I was considering seemed tippy, and that year did not have any stability control.


    I'm not sure what your point is because I wasn't responding to anything you typed. Also, a 2006 Escape would not fall into the category of a "new" Ford. Only 2007 and 2008 models fit that bill now. The "new" model Escape is the 2008 and it does have AT with RSC. Besides, I always felt our 2005 Escape was too tippy and I noted that in a previous conversation with blueidgod.

    Are you considering trading your Freestyle in for a Taurus X which will have AT with RSC among other things?
  • richk6richk6 Posts: 87
    It may seem vague to you, but not vague enough to CR. That's why they do not recommend any of the tipped up vehicles in the rollover test.

    Vehicles don't need "high speed" to rollover in an emergency maneuver. Especially higher profile vehicles such as suvs.

    You state "it actually didn't roll over, either. it just felt like it."

    I rather drive an suv that has a lower risk of rollover. One that doesn't even "feel" like it will.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    I rather drive an suv that has a lower risk of rollover. One that doesn't even "feel" like it will.


    A vehicle can be more likely to tip but never "feel" like it will. I'd put our Explorer into that group. It never feels tippy yet it has a higher likelihood of tipping than the Escape IIRC. I could be wrong about that particular example but I'd wager there are others to prove my point.

    I can say that we do "feel" much safer in the Explorer than we did in the Escape though. All the safety nannies and the sheer size of the thing greatly influence that.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,915
    i understand that there are people out there that take everything that CR writes as gospel.
    other than that test, both the escape and cr-v have been around for a while and they have not been associated with being rollover risks.
    risk tolerance does play into it. some are ok with driving on 2 wheels all the time(motorcyclists). :P
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Best Honda Ever

    I first encountedred this Honda in Japan in 2001, at Honda headquarters in Aoyama. It is even more amazing in person.

    I think we all know which company invests more into future proofing itself, and it is NOT FORD

    Markets currently covered by Honda:
    Automotive
    Motorcycle
    Marine
    Power equipment
    Robotics
    Air planes
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Wow! I need to rush out and buy a CR-V TOMORROW after seeing that. :sick:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I just traded my Accord for a Ford Escape. After being a Honda devotee for years, Ford finally roped me in, even without much of a discount!
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    Oh yeah, April Fools! :)
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Wow! I need to rush out and buy a CR-V TOMORROW after seeing that.

    Maybe you should give your money to the company that invests in the future, and will be there to back you up with parts when you need them.

    I have no problem getting parts from Honda dealer for my 1983 Honda Bike. I do remember having hard time getting Ford parts in 1999 for girlfriend's 1988 Ford Taurus. I had to go aftermarket, since the dealer said Ford did not supply those parts anymore.

    Can you say with 100% confidence that Ford will be around in 20 years when you need parts for your Ford product? Of course, there is a big chance that by that time current Ford vehicle will not be running anyway, so why bother making parts for it.

    And no, Scape2, 75,000 miles is not long distance enough to judge vehicle's reliability.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,576
    75,000 miles is not long distance enough to judge vehicle's reliability.

    That's plenty long enough if it keeps breaking down. :P

    I figured my van earned the reliable tag after getting to 100k without any significant issues. Age does in my cars more than the miles but I'm hard pressed to think of any ride I want to pay more than $3 or $4k for once it passes 100k. If it's a higher end car that maybe justifies a premium price at high miles, the potential maintenance costs kills my enthusiasm.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Maybe you should give your money to the company that invests in the future, and will be there to back you up with parts when you need them.

    I'll give my money to the company that makes vehicles that I or my wife like. I will not throw it all at one company because they built a robot and an airplane.

    Can you say with 100% confidence that Ford will be around in 20 years when you need parts for your Ford product?

    If I kept a vehicle for more than 3 years I might worry about that.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,844
    "I'm not sure what your point is because I wasn't responding to anything you typed. "

    I think you were following the train of messages that started with my statement.

    No, I don't think I will be going for a Taurus X. I like the CVT and I don't think the vehicle needs stability control. In any case mine in only 1 year old at this point...
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    I don't think the vehicle needs stability control

    It's very refreshing to hear that. The way people used to argue about that on the mid-sized sedan thread was crazy IMO. I think it should at least be an option on everything but SUVs and not necessarily standard.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,844
    "It's very refreshing to hear that. The way people used to argue about that on the mid-sized sedan thread was crazy IMO. I think it should at least be an option on everything but SUVs and not necessarily standard."

    I heard on the radio a few minutes ago that the government just mandated VSC on all cars starting in 2010.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Waste of consumer money IMO. I don't mind paying for airbags, side door beams, and emission controls. I do mind having to pay for VSC. Especially if it can't be turned off easily or if it's highly intrusive like Toyota's system seems to be.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I agree in a way. I think that a DEFEATABLE VSC would be a good thing on all cars. Defeatable like I know Honda's is... push a button, and it is completely off. Not "reduced" like Mercedes, etc...
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Defeatable like I know Honda's is... push a button, and it is completely off.

    Right on. Our Explorer lets you use a reduced mode or shut it off completely. There are times you may not want it and I fear this new mandate will bring many a system that are cheap and non-driver friendly just so they say they put VSC in the vehicle. Can you see Kia or Suzuki putting a nice VSC system in their econoboxes? It's going to be cheap and dirty IMO.

    Also, I don't feel a car like the Civic needs VSC. What's the base price going to jump to after they have to add it? I think we're going to be staring at $18,000+ base prices for compact cars now. Prices of the systems will come down for the manufacturers eventually but I doubt they'll pass the savings on to the consumers.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    Waste of consumer money IMO. I don't mind paying for airbags, side door beams, and emission controls. I do mind having to pay for VSC. Especially if it can't be turned off easily or if it's highly intrusive like Toyota's system seems to be.

    Are you kidding me?!? Stability control is UNIVERSALLY hailed as the biggest improvement in safety since the seatbelt. Not airbags. Not structural changes. Stability control. The government thinks so. All of the major car magazines. Yikes!!!

    :surprise:
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    When was Ford going to let us know about this? Escape engines starting on fire?!? The blue oval covers up yet ANOTHER safety hazard! It should be called the "No Escape"!
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