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CR-V vs Escape

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  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Yeah, how come I was not informed about that fact?

    WASHINGTON -- Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday it was recalling more than 500,000 Ford Escape sport utility vehicles after receiving reports of engine fires linked to corrosion on antilock brake connectors.

    Ford said the recall involved 444,880 Escapes from the 2001-2004 model years in the United States, and about 75,000 Escapes in Canada, Mexico and Europe. The recall does not affect hybrid versions of the SUV, the automaker said.

    Dearborn, Mich.-based Ford said there have been about 50 engine fires connected to the problems, which had been under investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

    "There have been no reports of accidents or injuries. We have identified a repair, and owners of affected vehicles will be notified soon," said Ford spokeswoman Kristen Kinley.

    The company said the recall would address missing or incorrectly installed seals on the wiring harness of the antilock brake connector.

    Water and contaminants such as brake fluid or road salt could enter the connector and cause corrosion. That could lead to the ABS warning indicator lighting up, an open fuse or in some cases smoking, melting or burning of the electrical ABS connector.

    Dealers will inspect the vehicles for corrosion and replace the connector and ABS module if necessary. Ford said it expects most vehicles will not have any corrosion concern, and will have the connector greased and reconnected.

    Owners can call Ford at (800) 392-3673 for more information about the recall.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Yeah, it's just great that we'll now have 16 year-olds taking hairpins at 90mph in the snow and ice because they think VSC will save them if they are doing something stupid. Kind of like ABS, which was once considered a marvel of the safety world if you'll recall, which had people thinking they COULD tail the jerk in front of them because ABS will stop them faster.

    IMO VSC should not be standard in every vehicle produced. SUVs and SUV-type vehicles do need it IMO, but most cars don't. Unless you want it, then you can opt for it and pay for it. Why should I have to pay for it if I don't want it?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    It's all over the news guys. At least they aren't blaming it on the teenager at Jiffy Lube like Honda did.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    Stability control is ridiculously easy to include. The computer and sensors are already there for ABS; the main difference between stability control and ABS is ABS controls the car front to back and stability control is side to side. Honda already includes it standard on almost every vehicle (except the S2000, I believe), without affecting the pricing, so this is just a move to make the rest of the industry come in line with what SHOULD be the status quo. If your manufacturer is trying to tack a huge fee on to have this feature, they're ripping you off.

    As for solving the problem of idiots driving, we've always had them and always will. Stability control or not, people will do stupid things.
  • drive62drive62 Posts: 637
    At least they aren't blaming it on the teenager at Jiffy Lube like Honda did.

    It was determined that the Honda fires were caused by gaskets left on when the oil filters were changed. You seem to imply a cover up on Honda's part, do you have any evidence?

    The company said the recall would address missing or incorrectly installed seals on the wiring harness of the antilock brake connector.

    This seems like a manufacturing/quality issue. Apparently Quality is not Job 1 at Ford.

    It's all over the news guys.

    This is the first I heard and I read three newspapers and watch the new everyday. It's a conspiracy I tell you. The media has swept this under the rug (sound familiar ;) LOL).
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,529
    Check out Stability Control, are you ready for it? if you haven't already.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    It was determined that the Honda fires were caused by gaskets left on when the oil filters were changed. You seem to imply a cover up on Honda's part, do you have any evidence?


    I'm not implying a cover up but I do feel they should have recalled the vehicles seeing the problem was filters that were installed at the factory. Even after they issued the warning fires still occured. Proof of that is on the CR-V threads of these forums if you want to find it.

    This seems like a manufacturing/quality issue. Apparently Quality is not Job 1 at Ford.

    The "incorrectly installed seals on the wiring harness of the antilock brake connectors" was a manufacturing issue as were the over-tightened oil filters at the CR-V factory. Same thing if you ask me. At least the ABS light came on first to warn the Escape owners of a problem. There are stories of people having to get their kids out of car seats in a panic from CR-Vs that were fine one second then engulfed in flames the next. Nice. :sick:

    It's a conspiracy I tell you. The media has swept this under the rug (sound familiar LOL).

    Yes it does and that's exactly why I'm clarifying. ;)
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Stability control is ridiculously easy to include.

    Yes it is. Won't argue there.

    Honda already includes it standard on almost every vehicle (except the S2000, I believe), without affecting the pricing

    Why do you believe that they aren't charging you for it? Is Honda in the business of giving things away for free now? Isn't it possible that they cut a corner somewhere else to make it look like you're not paying much for it? Isn't it also true, whic IIRC it is from news articles I've read, that Honda raised all MSRPs the year they made all the bags and VSC standard? I'm pretty sure it was front page news in some major papers.

    If your manufacturer is trying to tack a huge fee on to have this feature, they're ripping you off.


    Price is only one of the problems. It will get cheaper so that part of my argument would become lame eventually. That still doesn't solve the problem of manufacturers installing some crappy VSC system (i.e. poorly programmed) that is overly-intrusive and gets in the way of spirited driving. Why do you think the S2000 doesn't have it right now?

    I also pointed out in the past that I don't mind them putting VSC in everything as long as I have control over it. If it had been in my Mazda6 or in my current Mustang I would want to shut it off quite often. In my Explorer I can limit it or shut it off which is perfect. However in that application I want it on all the time and feel it should be on all the time.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Price is only one of the problems. It will get cheaper so that part of my argument would become lame eventually. That still doesn't solve the problem of manufacturers installing some crappy VSC system (i.e. poorly programmed) that is overly-intrusive and gets in the way of spirited driving. Why do you think the S2000 doesn't have it right now?

    Actually, the S2000 does have VSA. It is, however, defeatable, just like the other Honda vehicles offering VSA (Accord V6, Odyssey, Pilot, CR-V, etc...)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,690
    i just checked my '04 escape. i think it will be ok.
    just another case of 'if you sell a lot of product and it has a problem, the recall will be big'. i am not happy about it, though. :mad:
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "It was determined that the Honda fires were caused by gaskets left on when the oil filters were changed. You seem to imply a cover up on Honda's part, do you have any evidence"

    Yeah, and this is why the oil filter location has changed and was changed the next model?? Honda covered this one up in grand style! :surprise:
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Yeah, and this is why the oil filter location has changed and was changed the next model?? Honda covered this one up in grand style!

    If Honda changed the filter location, then I would have believed you that it was a cover up on Honda's side. But, the defect was in a maintenance item, oil filter. There is no need to change the filter location, or anything else, as long as the new oil filter has a gasket that does not stick, or the oil changer makes sure that the old gasket has come off.

    By the way, if you ever changed the oil on your dearly departed Escape, you would have known that the oil filter on the Escape is right above the HOT exhaust manifold connector/joiner part. The hottest part of the exhaust system. If Ford had a bad filter supplier, it would have had a higher chance of catching on fire than CR-V.

    Every time I change oil in the Escape, I have to wipe the oil off the manifold to make sure that it does not catch on fire when I start her up. It smells like burnt oil for a week or two, while burning off oil embedded in the manifold. Talk about engineering disaster...

    Instead of spewing misinformation on the web, get under the cars you talk about, at least once in a while.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    By the way, if you ever changed the oil on your dearly departed Escape, you would have known that the oil filter on the Escape is right above the HOT exhaust manifold connector/joiner part. The hottest part of the exhaust system. If Ford had a bad filter supplier, it would have had a higher chance of catching on fire than CR-V.

    Every time I change oil in the Escape, I have to wipe the oil off the manifold to make sure that it does not catch on fire when I start her up. It smells like burnt oil for a week or two, while burning off oil embedded in the manifold. Talk about engineering disaster...


    Very true. I'll add that our '96 civic and several other I4 engines I've changed oil on were laid out the same way though. Ford is not the only manufacturer guilty of this mind you.

    I was actually guilty of leaving the gasket on after an oil change on the Civic. The gasket was fused to the filter spindle and I never noticed it. Needless to say, oil spewed all over the road and the bottom of the engine that day. I think I made it about 2-3 miles before the oil light came on and I had to pull over. Kind of scary but I've never had that problem with any Ford or Toyota engines I've changed the oil on. Maybe Honda needs to cool their engines down better across the board? In the Civic you needed to be above 3500 RPM to go anywhere so the oil and engine were always boiling.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Instead of spewing misinformation ...

    That's a bit harsh. We can certainly disagree with each other but kinder gentler is the preferred approach. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Instead of spewing misinformation ...

    That's a bit harsh. We can certainly disagree with each other but kinder gentler is the preferred approach.


    Yeah, let's swap "spewing" for sharing?

    Let's also do a little research before posting things we may not know about.

    I imagine some readers take what is posted here as gospel as opposed to what it really is, so let's be a little respectful of them. (It really is a group of car junkies of varying degrees who like to discuss and debate different vehicles, their problems, and solutions to those problems, IMO).
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    so let's be a little respectful of them

    Agreed. But let's not scare them off with harsh rhetoric. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    BOO!

    :)

    I'd rather not call it "harsh rhetoric." Let's call it verbal intimidation. LOL

    Tongue-in-cheek, of course.

    Good evening, all.

    Thegrad
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Instead of spewing misinformation ...

    That's a bit harsh. We can certainly disagree with each other but kinder gentler is the preferred approach.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper


    All right, I am sorry. I may have chosen rather harsh words, but... certain someone keeps harping on and on about a "design defect" when his "infallable" Ford is just as guilty of the same design. Yet, he chooses not to mention it, or is competley unaware of the fact.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    The fact it neither the Escape or CR-V fires were caused by design or part flaws. Both were/are caused by installation mistakes. Misplacement of a protective cover for the Ford and over-tightening an oil filter for the CR-V.

    Humans put these things together so I personally don't find it surprising that things like this happen. Thousands of dollars would be added to the price of these things if the manufacturers were to inspect each one for defects, fix those defects, and therefore almost guarantee perfection from the factory. I can honestly say I'm OK with the way things are done currently.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,633
    CR-V oil filter problems weren't caused by overtightening. It was a bad batch of gaskets that had a greater propensity to stick to the engine than normal. That is definitely a flawed part. This was compounded by techs not diligently performing their duties (checking for stuck gaskets).

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Hmm, that's not what I've read. Do you have a link to that info or is it just heresay like the info I referred to?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,633
    We had a whole discussion about it, but it seems to be lost in the archives...

    Here is the best link I can find..

    Washington Post article

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Well I stand corrected.

    It seems the WP doesn't necessarily believe Honda's excuse which is reasonable IMO. As I said previously, I had a gasket stick on me during a change and didn't notice it. The filter with the gasket that stuck was installed by a quickie lube place and I doubt it stuck because of the chemical makeup of the rubber or else we probably would have heard of it.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Kind of funny you mention this. Yes, I did change my oil in my Escape, yes I did drip oil on the hot manifold. Yet.. For some strange reason my Escape never caught fire!! :confuse:
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    These Escapes are catching fire after a few years. You only had yours long enough to put on 75,000 miles before you had to get rid of it. Hardly long enough to prove any sort of durability of any kind.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Hardly long enough to prove any sort of durability of any kind.

    That was 75,000 miles which equates to about 6 years. At what point can you make a definitive statement about durability? :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I used my Escape as an SUV not a daily commuter. Can you say you towed 2 watercraft up and down a mountain range summer after summer in your CRV? No. Can you say you took your CRV into a major mountain range time and time again in the snow every winter for skiing trips? or how about out on logging roads in the summer heat looking for fishing spots? I doubt it. My Escape was used as an SUV not a car. It was a durable and reliable Ford product. Do your homework, the Escape is rated very well for reliability. By the way, get out on the net, CRV's are still having burning smells and even a fire or two :surprise: I'm in no way saying the Escape is the "best" small SUV. Does it deserve a look? heck yes!@
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    ...that got this forum shut down, aren't we? Re-hashing the SAME issues, even when a brand new CR-V is out, as well as at least an updated Escape. Can't we talk about the NEW cars?
  • bdymentbdyment Posts: 548
    Amen to that idea!
  • drive62drive62 Posts: 637
    The article states specifically that the seals were "missing or incorrectly installed ". I think it is a fair assumption to say they are are referring to when the vehicle was built. That's a bit different than when some oil change jockey left a gasket on when he changed a filter.
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