Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





CR-V vs Escape

1270271273275276278

Comments

  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "I've seen differing opinions on one issue with the hybrid Escape, and I'd love your input! How does acceleration compare to regular models, or your gen-2 CR-V? I've seen wildly varying acceleration numbers (although I can't recall any right now), and was hoping for a real-world response. Does it lose power noticeably if the batteries are somewhat depleted? "

    I have yet to deplete the batteries. If they ever discharge fully, it wouldn't be pretty - about 133 HP! But it would take a really long grade to do that, since the gas engine is constantly charging them as needed. In town, every time I use the brakes, energy is returned to the battery. In the mountains (for example), the batteries would recharge on the downhill and supply power on the up hill. I would say it accelerates about like any other 200 HP compact SUV (the batteries are rated at about 90 HP.

    As far as acceleration goes, it probably accelerates faster than, or about the same as, a CR-V under full throttle, but the engine would make more noise due to the CVT. But I am the wrong person to ask. Other than freeway on ramps, I drive for MPG, not acceleration. My biggest kick is when I move on electric power only, which is possible for about a mile under the right conditions, and when I am sitting at stop lights - and the engine is off. I have seen some FEH take off like a bat out of you-know-where, but I don't drive that way.

    You might check out the FEH forum:

    FEH Edmunds Forum
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Haha, I didn't expect you to drive like a speed-demon, since mini-utes aren't made for speed anyway; the Hybrid version definitely wouldn't be! I was more curious about around-town get-up-and-go, and merging power. I'm fine with a 130hp Accord, so my needs aren't for big speed; just safe passing and pulling into traffic.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "I was more curious about around-town get-up-and-go, and merging power."

    The FEH is great around town. The ICE can be a bit noisy under full acceleration. No problem merging from an on-ramp.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    The FEH is great around town. The ICE can be a bit noisy under full acceleration. No problem merging from an on-ramp.

    That's all going to change in about 2 months when they drop the new 2.5L I4 in the hybrid. If you can find one that is. How on earth did you find one Steve and what happened to your Freestyle (that was you right?)? There isn't a Hybrid Escape to be found around these parts ever. You have to order and wait a while if you want one for the most part.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "That's all going to change in about 2 months when they drop the new 2.5L I4 in the hybrid."

    I don't think that the extra .2 liters of displacement is going to have that much effect on noise. It's going to be interesting to see the effect on MPG, if any. It's not like they can add another forward gear to compensate for the larger displacement, which is what has been happening on other vehicles. They will have to reprogram the computer to maximize the power. Considering that they will thus be blazing new ground, I am glad I got the 2008, which is now pretty mature technology (and computer code).

    "How on earth did you find one Steve and what happened to your Freestyle (that was you right?)? There isn't a Hybrid Escape to be found around these parts ever. You have to order and wait a while if you want one for the most part."

    I loved the Freestyle, but the lease end was coming up, we never used 7 passenger seating, and it only got about 19 in town (at best). So I traded it for an FEH.

    I don't know what area you are in, but Galpin Ford in North Hills, CA (just north of LA) had about 30 - 40 hybrids on the lot (between FEH, Mariner, and Tribute models). The salesman said they sell 8 - 9 per week.

    I personally saw the hybrids; we were looking for one with leather and the options I wanted. It turned out that there was only one on the lot to my exact specifications. For some reason the only ones with leather were AWD, so that is what I got. I didn't want Nav because the multi-CD changer is under the driver seat; I prefer to load them into the dash. Plus I already have a personal GPS that is quite nice. And I didn't really want the moonroof or satellite radio. I think I got all of the other available options with my FEH. I was able to transfer my locking gas cap from my FS to the FEH. The only other thing I have ordered is the wheel locks, which should be arriving this week.

    They did have some Mariner Hybrids with leather and FWD, but they were loaded and would have cost about $1700 more. FWIW, the Mariner is a far nicer car. It has the combination unlock on the driver door and audio controls on the stearing wheel. There is also an available "mood lighting", which my 8 year old liked, but which isn't available on the FEH. It also rode better and had slightly more comfortable seats, although the ride could be because it was FWD.

    My first fill up was at 29.6, a mix of 60/40 city/highway, but I'm not sure how full the dealer got the car. However that is pretty close to the 30.4 the onboard display was showing. I am enjoying trying to maximize my MPG...
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    I don't think that the extra .2 liters of displacement is going to have that much effect on noise.

    It's not just displacement.

    "Ford Hybrids: More Refinement, Safety and Performance

    The new 2.5-liter engine also is the new foundation for the Escape Hybrid and Mariner Hybrid models. Adapted for hybrid use, the engine is Ford’s first to use variable valve timing on an Atkinson cycle hybrid engine. Advancements in engine processor technology enable a nearly imperceptible transition from gas to electric mode.

    A new brake system also provides a more seamless transition from regenerative braking to traditional braking. It incorporates a new pedal sensor that gives the driver better feedback and pedal feel similar to that of a traditional vacuum-assisted hydraulic system."


    From what I've read about the Miller Cycle version of the new 2.5L is that it is smoother, probably due to the VVT, more powerful and more fuel efficient than the 2.3L. I don't see why the Atkinson version would be any diffferent. However it is not known which tranny Ford is using for the '09 hybrids yet. The Miller 2.5L's bump in FE is partially due to it being paired with a 6-speed tranny so it will be ineresting to see what it does with a CVT if that is still the tranny of choice for the hybrid.

    I live in Pittsburgh and hybrids are hard to find around here. I see them on the road all the time but never on dealer lots.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "From what I've read about the Miller Cycle version of the new 2.5L is that it is smoother, probably due to the VVT, more powerful and more fuel efficient than the 2.3L. I don't see why the Atkinson version would be any diffferent. However it is not known which tranny Ford is using for the '09 hybrids yet."

    I suspect that the new engine puts out about the same HP with better fuel efficiency - it is my understanding that the Miller cycle is more efficient for MPG than the Otto cycle, but puts out less HP. So it would be a wash power wise, yet a gain in MPG for conventional use.

    The Atkinson cycle version would simply be larger - the Atkinson cycle is already efficient - but it should have a bump in HP due to VVT. I'm sure the Ford engineers will adjust the electric / ICE programming to get equal or better MPG as the current 2.3. I suppose they could go to an Miller cycle with the hybrid, but I was under the impression that the Atkinson cycle was more efficient than Miller.

    The hybrids do not technically use a CVT. They use a planetary gearset system that functions similarly to a CVT, but does not have the traditional CVT belt. It is similar to the Toyota HSD. So I don't see them changing their transmission for 2009 - it would require an entirely different hybrid technology.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    My bad, the regular 2.5 is an Otto cycle. I had my cycles crossed!

    The hybrid will get an atkinson version of the 2.5 though. But unlike the Atkinson 2.3L you have in your '08, the new 2.5 has VVT to boot. Power for the regular Otto 2.5 is up 10 horses and 10 ft-lbs from the 2.3 while fuel econ increases by 1-2 mpg across the board. I would think the hybrid would see similar increases.

    The only think you'll lose out on by not waiting for an '09 (which didn't seem to be an option for you anyway seeing as your lease was up) is probably a slight increase in refinement and power. 1-2 mpg to a hybrid is nothing given its already high numbers so you won't miss that if that ends up being the case.

    Good luck with your new Escape Steve. Give us regular updates if you can. :shades:
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    " Power for the regular Otto 2.5 is up 10 horses and 10 ft-lbs from the 2.3 while fuel econ increases by 1-2 mpg across the board. I would think the hybrid would see similar increases. "

    We'll have to see, but I suspect not. The ICE only MPG increases are most likely due to transmission changes (typically an extra gear), so I wouldn't be surprised if we see a 5 or 6 speed automatic on the 2009 for the conventional Escape. I don't really know how the HP and Ft-lbs change in relationship to an Atkinson cycle engine, but it is certainly less gain than with the Otto cycle.

    The FEH doesn't use conventional gears, so the best they can do is modify the computers to attempt to use lower RPM when possible, but 10 ft lbs is not that much increase. With a conventional AT it is easy to add gears, but with the CVT there are no shift points to adjust. The programming used in the CVT has to be matched up to the new engine. Again, at this point (after 3 years), the current engine / CVT combination is well tested and refined.

    An unknown factor for 2009 is the new engine itself - the current 2.3 is very proven technology.

    Last, keep in mind that they have to account for that extra .2 liters of displacement.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    An unknown factor for 2009 is the new engine itself - the current 2.3 is very proven technology.

    Not really. The 2.5L is a bored out 2.3L and Mazda has been using VVT on the old 2.3L for a while now with great success and reliability. What's new besides the displacement bump is that Ford is FINALLY incorporating VVT on both the intake and exhaust. Most likely they tapped Mazda for that bit of tech so I don't see how it could be considered as an unknown factor at all.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "What's new besides the displacement bump is that Ford is FINALLY incorporating VVT on both the intake and exhaust. Most likely they tapped Mazda for that bit of tech so I don't see how it could be considered as an unknown factor at all."

    I have not seen that they are using VVT on the exhaust.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    IIRC that's how the Mazda VVT worked on the 2.3 and Ford has used what they call VCT on the exhaust side for years now. It was even present on the 2.0L Zetec in my '98 ZX2.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    "Domestic" automakers have been producing reliable vehicles for years now, and for a lot less $$ than comparable Japanese makers.

    Welcome back, but...Don't start this fight again, you know you are going to lose.

    I have posted real world prices on comparable Honda and Ford vehicles, and Honda has always been less expensive to buy, and keep in the long term. They key word here is comparable.

    If I am not mistaken, you have a Ford Fusion, which is just Mazda6 with a Ford logo on it, but compare it to a COMPARABLY equipped Accord. I have not done price comparisons recently, but I am pretty sure that Accord will win hands down and the resale will be at least 50% higher 3-5 years later.
  • Don’t purchase your new Honda at Hennessy Honda in GA. They ripped me off. They sold me a new CRV with a defect. A piece of front wheel well trim was cut out. They don’t want to pay for the repair. They knew about this defect. Theservice mgr. there told me that I should have caught this when I did the inspection of the vehicle! :mad: :mad: :mad:
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,562
    Georgia has a consumer protection agency. Plus there's always the BBB. Or you could write the owner of the dealer and complain (and copy Honda USA on your letter).

    Please visit Dealer Ratings and Reviews and fill out a report there too. Thanks, and good luck.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,699
    blueie...
    you're still at it? when are you going to realize that there are plenty of people who like escapes and plenty who like cr-v's? just look at the sales numbers, year after year after year.
    i just bought an awd fusion. there is no comparable accord, and tell me why you are asking questions about leasing a fusion? :P
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "blueie...
    you're still at it? when are you going to realize that there are plenty of people who like escapes and plenty who like cr-v's? just look at the sales numbers, year after year after year. "

    And some (like me) who like them both! But I prefer the styling of the 2008 Escape over the Gen3 CR-V. Matter of personal preferences...
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    blueie...
    you're still at it? when are you going to realize that there are plenty of people who like escapes and plenty who like cr-v's? just look at the sales numbers, year after year after year.
    i just bought an awd fusion. there is no comparable accord, and tell me why you are asking questions about leasing a fusion?


    I didn't say anything about preferences. Scape2 stated that domestics make comparable vehicles for less, and I said, "show me the money" Preferences were not in the sentence.

    Girlfriend's lease on the 2005 Escape is up and Fusion is the closest I could convince her to get a Japanese car. Japanese design, Japanese Engine and Transmission, made in Mexico, labeled as a Ford. Talk about identity crisis. :P
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,699
    when i look at what you responded to from my post, i didn't say anything about preferences either. i just pointed out reality. some like the cr-v, others like the escape. they probably have different priorities.
    anyways, i will bet everyone refers to your g-f as your better half. ;)
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    i will bet everyone refers to your g-f as your better half.

    She is, but not without flaws: She likes Ford vehicles. :P
  • drive62drive62 Posts: 637
    I always wondered why you opted for a Mazda instead of another Ford? Especially with your anti foreign leanings. Yes the Tribute is essentially a rebadged Escape (or is it vice versa) but by purchasing the Mazda some of your hard earned money went to a Japanese automaker.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    I have seen some recent comments on the CR-V forum to the effect that the current Gen 3 CR-V is a bit loud on the road, so I thought I'd comment on my experience.

    I owned a 2003 CR-V. I enjoyed the vehicle, but road noise was high at speed, and when the engine went over 3000 RPM it was loud as well.

    I now drive a 2008 Escape Hybrid. One of the things I notice is that it is vastly quieter than my old CR-V, at all speeds. I recently had the RPM go past 4000 on a hill, and it was noticeable, but not loud.

    When I opened the hood I began to understand. The hood is very heavy, and it has a huge thick pad underneath for sound isolation. Similarly, the doors are a bit hard to open, and the hatch is also hard to close. All of these I think have to do with the door seals being thicker, thus requiring more effort.

    But this model of the Escape is much quieter than the CR-V.

    I also get about 31 MPG city and the same on the highway, but that is an unfair comparison because my Escape is a Hybrid.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    An initial review of the Escape I just read says the 2009 is even quieter than the 2008 FWIW.

    Here's one review

    Another one
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    I had read the 2nd one:
    "Driving away the updated models felt quieter and more solid than the older units which almost sounded tinny by comparison. The difference in the level of refinement was actually rather startling."

    I don't know what they were driving for 2008 models, but that doesn't sound like mine at all. It is not "tinny" by any means. I do have the AWD, which changes the way the FEH handles.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    You're right, it's hard to tell what they were talking about there. What was tinny? The engine sounds? The doors closing? The tweeters in the Audiophile system?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,699
    mentioned 08's vs. 09's.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,794
    "mentioned 08's vs. 09's."

    And your point is? :confuse:
  • richk6richk6 Posts: 87
    The second review mentioned Ford has incorporated a new braking system in the 09 Escape hybrid. I hope they will extend that to the regular 09 Escape.

    Consumer Reports stated in their test of 2 samples of the 08 Escape:

    "The Escape's braking distances were disturbingly long in both wet and dry conditions, and were the longest among vehicles we have recently tested"
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    It did because AdvanceTrac RSC is now standard on all Escapes and that involved an upgraded braking system. It's still front discs and rear drums for the gas versions but braking is said to be improved. Read the second page of C&D's first drive of the '09 I4, V6 and hybrid Escapes. I've noticed a few errors in their review however so I'll wait to see other reviews to pass final judgement on things like acceleration, braking, and handling which is where the big changes were made for '09.

    2009 Ford Escape first drive - C&D
  • dromedariusdromedarius Posts: 307
    It's not a bad vehicle. The problem is the design is essentially the same as when it was first introduced 8 or so years ago. Same w/the Focus, one of which I have thanks to an incident on ice here a couple months back. :sick: Ford has put WAY too much emphasis into trucks and SUVs for the past 15 years and now they have been caught w/their pants not only around their ankles but turned inside out over their shoes.

    The Focus, Escape and Ranger would be generating even more sales but they are competing against vehicles which are two generations newer. You can't expect to be competitive w/8+ yo vehicles. They are like the Yankees now. Just because it was good in 2000 doesn't mean it's good now. I think Ford, after the news they are cutting back on production, is in very real danger as a company as a whole.

    They already don't have a minivan to compete Honda, Chrysler and Toyota and now w/the move to subcompacts their pants have been pulled down just THAT much further.
Sign In or Register to comment.