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CR-V vs Escape

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  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,719
    "Honda's own site doesn't specify whether the position of the rear seats, other than up or down, so how do you know they measure with the seats slid all the way toward the back? I would think they would publish the maximum cargo capacity rather than the minimum don't you? The max can only be measured with the seats pushed all the way forward."

    Oh gosh, we covered this a couple of years ago, and I can't remember where I got this information. IIRC I did a basic calculation based on H X W X D on my own 2003 CR-V EX to confirm (OK, so I had a lot of time on my hands). However, they cannot claim 39 inches of legroom (GEN 2) AND the cargo space at maximum (as you describe "maximum); when forward, the GEN 2 rear legroom is only 36 inches (identical to the normal legroom of the 2005 Escape). So they measured the cargo space with the seats to the rear.

    I hope you can see how one cannot "double count" the same space - either the seat is forward (in which case there is only 36" legroom), or the seat is backward (39"), to match the cargo volume reported.

    Just to be clear, my original statement was about the GEN 2, which was the model I owned. I don't know how the current specs are written on Honda's website these days.

    OK, found the post, by Varmint:

    CR-V GEN 2 Legroom vs Cargo

    ""Are the rear leg room numbers taken with the seats fully in their [sp. edit] back position?" - Yes, they are. This is standard testing methodology for all vehicles. The same methods were used to measure the Escape.

    "Are the cargo area dimensions taken with the backseats fully in their [sp. edit] forward position?" - No, they are not. I explained this earlier. The CR-V's volume of 33.5 cu.ft. is measure with the seats in the rearward position. In other words, you could slide the rear seats forward to increase cargo volume even higher than the 33.5 it is rated for. "
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    I'm not going to argue with you because you could be right about all of this. I'd just like more information on how they really measure be it from varmint, Honda, or some other independent source. If there is a standard procedure for measurement I've never seen it before.

    It just seems strange to me that Honda, or any other mfr for that matter, would publish any volume measurement other than the max. I understand that you can't have the max rear legroom if you want the max cargo but they can report the max for both simply by sliding the seat all the way forward or back for the two seperate measurements. If they have to configure the vehicle in one, and only one set way before taking all of the measurements for some reason then yours, and varmint's, explanations make sense.

    With my Explorer, your Freestyle, the Escape, and many others the rear seat does not slide, but might recline, you are going to get a less confusing measurement. As if Honda didn't make the CR-V different enough why'd they have to throw this wrench into the works too? ;)
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,719
    "I understand that you can't have the max rear legroom if you want the max cargo but they can report the max for both simply by sliding the seat all the way forward or back for the two seperate measurements. If they have to configure the vehicle in one, and only one set way before taking all of the measurements for some reason then yours, and varmint's, explanations make sense."

    Well, put it this way, the total volume for the entire vehicle has to be the sum of the volume of the front, rear, and cargo areas. So they can't add a "maximum" rear area and a "maximum" cargo area, plus the standard front area; it would be larger than the interior area.

    Similarly, if you a standard measure of the total inches from the front of the car to the end of the car (inside), there are only a set number of inches. You can divide those inches any way you desire, but can't count the inches twice.

    I think they would confuse a lot of people if they reported two sets of figures for rear legroom and cargo area.
  • harvey44harvey44 Posts: 178
    Our Civic - Assembled in Canada..Trans from US. MOTOR from Japan. That's a good thing - the motor is the best part of the car.
  • cshoppercshopper Posts: 7
    "I'm not going to argue with you because you could be right about all of this. I'd just like more information on how they really measure be it from varmint, Honda, or some other independent source. If there is a standard procedure for measurement I've never seen it before."

    I'm pretty sure I've seen one before, under SAE procedures for interior dimensions and volume measurement. The seat is slid to the furthermost rearward position. Doesn't matter if its 1st or 2nd or 3rd row seat. This basically levels the playing field and allows consumers to compare apples to apples. the Legroom itself, IIRC, is not a distance between seats measure, but some kind of measure from your hips to knee to floor and forward.

    Manufacturers should be reporting max legroom based on the procedure and have every incentive to do so. Sliding 2nd row seats are pretty commonplace in the industry now- many mid-size SUVs have this feature, as well as compacts like the CRV and RAV4. It would be very confusing if the legroom measurement was not standardized.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    It would be very confusing if the legroom measurement was not standardized.

    I don't know about that. I always thought they published max measurements. Going by what I've learned from you and others here that doesn't seem to be the case as you'd have to slide the CR-V's second row all the way forward to get the max cargo number for example.

    If they were to publish max measurments, and state them as such, then I don't see how that could be confusing.
  • Ford recalling SUVs over head protection testing

    You'd think after all these years of selling the exact same model they'd have ironed out all the problems...

    :sick:
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    That recall was announced in April of 2006 and does not affect the current Escape. In fact, it only affected MY2005 Escapes.

    Did you even read the article?
  • Yes, I read the article.

    :blush:

    The relevant fact is the current Escape remains largely unchanged, so as late as 2005, which was something like 6 or 7 years into the model run, its STILL having issues. That means it's very likely we'll see something wrong on the '06 and '07s. In the meantime, the CR-V and RAV4 are on their third iterations and EACH has had less recalls, despite the continually new (and improved) product.

    :shades:
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    First of all, and this has been reiterated a hundred times before, recalls are not a measure of quality in any way shape or form.

    Second of all, since 2002, the first MY of the last gen CR-V, the Escape has had 8 total recalls whereas the CR-V has had 7. The math gets a little fuzzy because of generation gaps between the two but you get the picture I hope. ;)
  • Recalls are indicators of many things, INCLUDING quality. Not always, but it IS one of the factors. I don't know where you are getting that it isn't.

    And yes, the recalls are relatively close over the past five years, but then again, these are NEW CR-V models you are comparing to an ESTABLISHED Escape model. I would fully expect, as would many other (I hope), that you have more recall issues early in a model's development.

    Honda has done just that, as there haven't been ANY recalls on my 2005 CR-V, the fourth year of its generational run. The Escape, on the other hand, is STILL getting recalls after 6+ years and counting. Sorry, baggs, but you are comparing Apples to Oranges on this one. Furthermore, Ford needs to show it can produce a quality model if they expect people to bail them out.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    And yes, the recalls are relatively close over the past five years, but then again, these are NEW CR-V models you are comparing to an ESTABLISHED Escape model.

    The Escape was all new in 2001. I gave you 2002 and up. One year on the market makes it established now? :confuse:

    Honda has done just that, as there haven't been ANY recalls on my 2005 CR-V, the fourth year of its generational run.

    The NHTSA says otherwise:

    Make / Models : Model/Build Years:
    HONDA / CR-V 2005

    Recall Number: 04V526000
    Summary:
    ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES, THE OCCUPANT POSITION DETECTION SYSTEM'S SIDE SENSOR IS NOT INSTALLED IN THE CORRECT POSITION AND MAY FAIL TO SHUT OFF THE PASSENGER'S SIDE IMPACT AIRBAG IF THE OCCUPANT IS OUT-OF-POSITION.
    Consequence:
    IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH, SUCH AN OUT-OF POSITION OCCUPANT MAY BE INJURED BY A DEPLOYING SIDE AIRBAG.
    Remedy:
    DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE PASSENGER'S SEAT-BACK PAD WHICH INCUDES THE OCCUPANT POSITION DETECTION SYSTEM SENSOR. THE RECALL BEGAN ON ON NOVEMBER 19, 2004. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT HONDA AT 1-800-999-1009.
    Notes:
    HONDA RECALL NO. P49. CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION¿S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).


    Furthermore, Ford needs to show it can produce a quality model if they expect people to bail them out.

    Your beloved CR ranks the Fusion above the Accord. Check out the latest JD Power ratings too. Ford had the most vehicles at the top of their segments. Quality has improved greatly and you're just going to have to face that fact now. There is no more quality gap. That's not to say there won't be one in the future again, but it's gone for now.

    I would fully expect, as would many other (I hope), that you have more recall issues early in a model's development.

    Completely false. Often times it takes a while for a problem to crop up and that wouldn't necessarily happen early in the model's life cycle.

    Recalls are indicators of many things, INCLUDING quality. Not always, but it IS one of the factors. I don't know where you are getting that it isn't.


    Maybe the quality of a specific part but parts fail and they fail for all mfrs. Recalls are almost always issued for safety reasons and have more to do with the durability of a part than it's overall quality which don't go hand in hand. Sometimes form comes before function.
  • twaintwain Posts: 185
    Normally it's the man who won't be caught dead in a minivan, but I've been hearing this applied to woman more and more often.
    ------------------------------------

    But minivans have become too large and heavy too. Unless you have a family of 6. IMO, new vehicles like the Mazda5 and Kia Rondo are the way to go. And they'll carry 6 too. :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    IMO, new vehicles like the Mazda5 and Kia Rondo are the way to go. And they'll carry 6 too.

    Having spent time in a 5, you really need to get a 4-door 5-passenger vehicle if you need decent seating for 4 (the back seat is small in the 5, to me). For 6, the 4 rear passengers better be 5'3" or less.

    Having owned an Accord, driven the family minivan, and sat in a Mazda 5, I'd pick the conventional car or minivan over the microvan.

    The Mazda5 gets 21/26 MPG, and has 157 horsepower (bad power to MPG ratio). The Sienna has 266 horsepower, seats 7/8 people quite comfortably, and gets 19/26 MPG.

    If I had the money to spend on a conventional van, even if I only had a family of 4, I'd get the Sienna. 1 MPG combined lower, 100+ extra horsepower, MUCH MUCH more room and comfort.
  • I know there are probably a variety of opinions on this topic, but here goes:
    I'm trying to decide whether to buy a used Escape or CRV. Safety and reliability are the most important factors to me, 4 cylinder engine is fine. For my budget ($15K or less), I could get a fairly new (05/06) Escape with low mileage very easily. A CRV, on the other hand, would likely be a 2002 or 2003 model with a bit more miles. Is the CRV worth paying a bit extra or getting a bit older car?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    I know there are probably a variety of opinions on this topic, but here goes:
    I'm trying to decide whether to buy a used Escape or CRV. Safety and reliability are the most important factors to me, 4 cylinder engine is fine. For my budget ($15K or less), I could get a fairly new (05/06) Escape with low mileage very easily. A CRV, on the other hand, would likely be a 2002 or 2003 model with a bit more miles. Is the CRV worth paying a bit extra or getting a bit older car?


    Test drive both. The 4 cylinder CR-V compares more favorably with the V6 Escape. The 4 cylinder Escape compares to horse drawn buggy in terms of acceleration and driving dynamics. :P
  • Won't fit into the current Escape, according to this month's Car & Driver (Oct. 07). In the meantime, Honda has upped the HP numbers for the 2.4 to 177 and 190 for the new Accord. I'm hoping the 190 horse version makes it into the CR-V in the next year or two. THEN what are people going to say when this four banger has equal HP numbers to Ford's 3 liter V6?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    The solution is the PIP Duratec30 which we should see at the Detroit show in January if it's still in the works (the TwinForce may have made Mulally change his mind about that).

    Essentially the PIP is a reworked version of the current D30 and adds about 20 horses, some torque, more refinement, and much better fuel economy. The '09 Escape will most likely also get the new 2.5L I4 which puts out either 190 or 200 HP, is smoother than the current 2.3L and, again, gets much better fuel economy.

    I doubt that they'll put a TF in the Escape so I'd expect the PIP is still on track. Although news of it on the dedicated Ford forums has died down substantially over the past few months.

    These two motors are going in the freshened, inside and out, '09 Fusion as well with a TF I4 for the sport version(s).

    The next Escape will most likely be the Kuga you can see at the current Frankfurt show if rumors hold true too.

    Oh, and the Escape will get a new 5 or 6-speed tranny with the new engines too.
  • When did the current Escape debut again?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    February IIRC.

    Many people, I being one of them, were disappointed with the drivetrain for the current model because it had not changed at all. It seems that Mulally and Fields have listened, but nothing's been officialy announced yet so time will tell.
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