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CR-V vs Escape

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Comments

  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "And we all know what happened to Rome..."

    When's the last time you looked at a map? It's still there last time I checked.

    The Roman Empire is another story...
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    I believe the saying refers to the empire. Unless you were comparing Ford Motor to the city of Rome? That sort of takes some of the thunder outta the statement though.

    Hey, that's your call. Why not just say Seattle wasn't built in a day?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "I believe the saying refers to the empire."

    Yes it does, but it does not refer to the fall of the Empire either. The saying means what it means.

    I was just twisting something that had already been twisted. You know, kind of like when you Honda folks say "CR-V's rule" when we all really know that the actual saying is "Ford Escape rules". :)
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    baggs - That cliche you used actually does refer to the Roman Empire.

    "Yes it does, but it does not refer to the fall of the Empire either. The saying means what it means."

    The cliche that you used doesn't refer to the fall of the Empire. My response to it does. And Rome of today has nothing to do with the Roman Empire - so what if it's still there on the map?
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Member Posts: 1,110
    And here I thought that referred to Rome, New York...
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    LOL. At least he didn't try to pass it off as alluding to the Holy Roman Empire.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I was honest and had mentioned a "rattling" sound in my Escapes engine area.. took it to the dealer and they found the fuel I had purchased was poor. My vehicle had just less than 1/4 tank.. they took and filled it at a nearby gas station AND added an additive that would clean my fuel system... Walla! gone! So, my "unrelaible" Escape is approaching 20,000 trouble free miles.. AND my Ford Ranger now has almost 77,000 trouble free miles.. I thought Fords weren't supposed to last past 10,000??? according to the Honda bible....
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "That cliche you used actually does refer to the Roman Empire."

    So you can somehow prove that I was referring to the Roman Empire when I typed that?

    Did you read the rest of my post? You twisted what I typed, and then I twisted it again.

    I'm truly hoping that this is all a joke and that you really don't belive that Ford will fall off the map someday. It's not going to happen. They'll be back, closing in on the #1 spot again, in a few years.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    What does Walla Walla have to do with anything? Or did you mean Voila!?

    Who said a Ford is only good for 10,000 miles? My wife's 91 Escort went 52,000 before it needed a head-gasket! I would NEVER say 10,000 miles! Maybe 10,000 to a recall but never just 10,000 miles.

    I went to Honda church this weekend. I prayed for your Ford.

    Anyone compare 2002 Escape complaints to CR-V complaints on the NHTSA website? Heeheheehee...

    Scape, what do you do for a living? Who do you work for? Just curious.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    These are SUVs, not chariots! I think we've had enough discussion of the Roman Empire!

    tidester, host
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Well if you ask a certain TH member, we were talking about Rome, not the Roman Empire.
  • beatfarmerbeatfarmer Member Posts: 244
    is funny, funny stuff.

    Very Pythonesque!
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    I was thinking about something you said last week.

    Stereo alarm? Who would steal an OEM stereo from a CR-V?

    Actually, OEM products are quite hot with chop shops. It's not a major selling point with me but, anything to deter a thief is fine by me.
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    I'm just shy of 26,800 miles and I got my 1st problem.
    I have to replace my rear wiper blade and it is NOT sold at any automotive store. Smallest blade any store has is a size 11 and I need a 10 or the blade will be too long. Figures only Dealer would have the size 10 blade I need for my rear window. But I guess getting 1 1/2 years out of a wiper blade is pretty decent (thanks to rain-x).

    Odie
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "These are SUVs, not chariots!"

    Well, they are the modern versions of a chariot. :)

    Consider it forgotten Tidester. Apparently I'm now up against someone who can read minds. ;)

    "It's not a major selling point with me but, anything to deter a thief is fine by me."

    I wasn't thinking of chop shops because those people wouldn't break in just to steal the radio. They would just take the whole vehicle.

    Besides, any thief worth his/her own weight would know how to get around a simple radio alarm.

    It's just another way for the manufacturer, and they all do it, to get a couple hundred extra dollars out of your wallet. They have many more ways to do this too.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    It's actually a pretty cool system. When you purchase your vehicle you get a code for the stereo. If the vehicle's power is interupted or, if the stereo is removed and installed elsewhere, you have to enter a code to make it work again.

    I believe Honda's efforts to make their cars harder to steal pays off with insurance companies. Of course, I can't say that for sure (I'm not in the insurance biz.) but, some of Honda's earlier vehicles are some of the most stollen cars and insurance rates for my Honda's are very reasonable.

    The ignition key is also pretty funky. It has a chip in it so it is the only key that will start the car. We got 3 keys with our vehicle, two that do everything, and one valet key that won't open the glove box. On the down side, you have to have a special machine to grind these keys and, the blank has to have the correct chip in it. The blanks run about $90-$100.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    It's impossible to read minds. Much easier, though, to see someone err and desperately try to save face. The Roman Empire buckled under its own size...you couldn't have picked a worse cliche to use.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    I'd have to say diploid makes a very good point.

    We know that wasn't where you were going with it baggs but, it is pretty ironic how it was so easy to spin in our favor.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Whatever. You guys are right and I'm wrong. OK?

    But...

    The Escape is still waaaaaaaaay better than the CR-V. :)

    icvci,
    That chip in the CR-V's key has already been done by just about every single manufacturer on the face of the earth. It's about time Honda caught up. I remember the 94 Mustang having them, but I don't know when Ford actually started using them, and I don't know who they copied from either.

    The Escape also has the chip in key feature. We just don't get a valet key. I believe Ford charges about $50 to have another one made, and only they can do it.

    You are right about one thing though, some Honda's, like the Accord and Civic, are on the most stolen lists. However, if you look a little closer at those lists, most of the vehicles on them are top sellers. For example, the F-150 is always on there too. They're not "most stolen" simply because people like them is what I'm getting at.

    Increasing the security of a vehicle will certainly lower the insurance rates in most cases. Selling fewer copies so fewer get stolen is also another way to lower rates. I don't imagine we'll ever see the latter happen though.

    Tell me this, does the new CR-V have that annoying feature where the doors lock after about 30 seconds if you don't open the door? Our Civic has that and I'd really like to know how to disable it. You would think that opening the trunk within that time frame would shut it off, but noooooo, the doors still re-lock! I hope they fired that engineer.

    Ford radios also have a security feature on them, but it's pretty old and lame. They use special bolts which require a special tool to remove them. This whole plan went down the toilet when places like Crutchfield started including those tools in their installation kits when you bought a new unit from them. Now just about any one can steal a Ford radio if they wanted to.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    They're not "most stolen" simply because people like them is what I'm getting at.

    Then how did they get to be top sellers?

    Anyway, that's not what I was getting at. Most of the time the top stolen vehicles are those with interchangeable parts, like GM vehicles.

    I remember my buddy's dad's Taurus having the chip on the key.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Walla! gone! - Scape2

    What does Walla Walla have to do with anything? Or did you mean Voila!? - icvci

    I think we was implying that Walla Walla will soon follow the Romans off the map.

    Baggs - I'm also a Steelers fan (for no particular reason). Shame about them.

    Back to business...

    Honda has been a manufacturing innovator since the very beginning. Their factories have long been admired for productivity, flexibility, and environmental friendliness. This is not the result of recent developments. It's been true for decades.

    The CR-V was recently named #1 in the JD Powers index for owner satisfaction. Unlike the TQI (Total Quality Index), this index is based on the owners responses to questions about their attachment to the vehicle. In short, it ranks vehicles based on owner happiness.

    Snow driving is an artform and driver preferences and skill may have more to do with it than the vehicle itself. In my college days, I was more comfortable driving my big, heavy 78 Ford Fairmont than my Mother's 87 Subaru Wagon with 4WD. That's just what I was accustomed to.

    The only direct snow comparison between the two pitted an old CR-V against both the Escape and Tribute. It was a C&D article titled something like, "White Snow and the 7 Dwarves". The CR-V clearly came out on top. They mentioned how well it tracked through deep snow and how it avoided getting turned by ruts. The twins failed to climb a snow covered hill. That said, Ford has since stopped using the tires they sold at that time. If we believe that tires alone could make that difference, then the 1/4 turn required to engage the CR-V's rear wheels probably isn't a big factor, either.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    varmint,
    Welcome back.

    A lot of people are still steamed around here about the Steelers loss a few weeks ago. It's going to be a long six months...

    "The twins failed to climb a snow covered hill."

    I'll have to read that one again, but from personal experience, the Escape handles snow covered hills (actually roads) in a more civilized manner than the old CR-V. I have not thoroughly tested the CR-V though.

    I'm not saying the CR-V would get stuck mind you. I'm just saying that the Escape gives you an extra level of confidence that the CR-V can't.

    *edit*

    Someone at Edmund's needs to fix the spell check on this forum. 'Steelers' comes up as a misspelled word.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    'Steelers' comes up as a misspelled word.

    'Steelers' IS a misspelled word! :-)

    tidester, host
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    in the article it said the TIRES on the twins was the first to give up in the test.... it said nothing about the vehicle itself giving up. That's like saying that just because the Explorer had the Fireblowns on them the whole vehicle was going to blow up.

    Most of the Escape's now have 15" Michelin's and 16" continental's .. they don't put the Firestones (that were used in THAT test) on the escapes any longer.
    Just like I had the dealer put 16" Goodyear Wrangler RF-A tires on mine before I purchased it because I didn't want Firestone (or Continental's) on the my Escape.

    Odie
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    tidester,
    I know it is misspelled. We Pittsburgher's (another misspelled word) are very proud of our home football team and thus believe that nothing can be wrong with them. Including the name.

    Get it now?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "- Florida tires: The Firestone Wilderness HTs on the Escape and Tribute just say no to snow." C&D 'White Snow and the 11 Dwarfs'

    I think odie has a point. They complained only of the tires in that review. I think varmint was eluding to that, but we were discussing, however briefly, the 4WD systems. C&D made it a point to mention that the system in the twins functioned as advertised, but the tires weren't up to the task.
  • jondavidjondavid Member Posts: 28
    I believe this was the actual quote:

    "At the same time, Ford didn't throw its full enthusiasm behind the go-anywhere expectations folks have for trucks and SUVs, either. When the snow got deep, the twins were the first to quit. The Firestone Wilderness HT 235/70TR-16 tires have the close tread blocks you expect of road-and-rain tires. Through the soft snow they have great resistance. "I'm pushing a bow wake," wrote one tester, describing the feel of the snow holding him back."

    Based on the tires I saw on Escapes around the time this review came out, I can see why they were the first to quit in the snow. When you spend $20-$28K for any SUV, it's too bad you get OEM quality tires, without an extra cost option to exchange for your choice of some of the popular tires.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    A 2003 Escape Limited was parked outside where I work today. I have to say, the painted cladding is quite nice. One problem though. The sensors for the reverse object detection system are not painted. They are jet black and stick out like a sore thumb. It's a nice safety feature, but it kind of messes up the Limited's color scheme.

    The "lower-end" models still have the gray cladding and I don't imagine the sensors would look out of place on them.

    Oh, this particular copy was some kind of goldish color. Maybe that's why the sensors stood out so much.

    Anyway, I remember a big issue being made about these reverse sensors few months back in the news. It seems that an alarming number of children are being killed by SUV's that were moving in reverse because the driver can't see them. Supposedly the Government is being pushed to make these systems standard on all SUV's (maybe minivans too?) within the next couple of years. Looks like the Escape is early to the party on this one. I believe all Ford SUV's as well as some large cars can be had with this system as well.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    I'd rather not have to worry about paying to fix that in a minor fender bender. For the last 16 years a rear-view mirror and a little not-so-common sense has worked just fine for me.

    If they wanna save lives, they'll make it less attractive to own a HUGE SUV for the daily commute. Lower bumpers too. Good article on large vehicles and their safety in accidents at the NY Times website today.

    (You have to register.)

    http://nytimes.com/2003/01/30/automobiles/30AUTO.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Here's the google news "non-registration" link to the story:

    Regulators Seek Ways to Make S.U.V.'s Safer

    Good article Icvci - swipped for posting in I don't like SUVs, why do you? :-)

    Steve, Host
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "I'd rather not have to worry about paying to fix that in a minor fender bender."

    Have you seen the CR-V's low speed bumper bash scores on the NHTSA's site? The sensors would be the least expensive thing to fix if the vehicle that hits you makes contact with the spare.

    I do agree with you though. I've seen how some people "back up". They need to learn how to use all of the mirrors and windows when in reverse, and to take it easy on the gas.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Have you seen the CR-V's low speed bumper bash scores on the NHTSA's site? The sensors would be the least expensive thing to fix if the vehicle that hits you makes contact with the spare.

    I wouldn't want to make that bill bigger by including a silly sensor system. NHTSA doesn't do a bumber bash, that's an Insurance Institue for Highway Safety test. BIG bill for me. Yet, the Honda was the cheapest to insure...someone other than me thinks protecting occupants is a higher priority than potential repair bills.

    Did you read their crash test vehicle summary?

    Here it is -

    http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_smsu- v.htm

    They must conspire with "Honda's Bible". They have the CR-V at the top and...I...have...to...scroll...way...down...to find the...Escape.
  • rleirlei Member Posts: 26
    Actually, you don't need to scroll way down. You can just click on the photo comparison of the highest & lowest rated current models.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Sorry, I thought the NHTSA did the bumper test. My bad. It's been a while since those were brought up around here.

    "Did you read their crash test vehicle summary?"

    Do a search on this thread and you'll find a long discussion about it.

    You'll even find a link to an individual's web site where pictures of his wrecked Escape are/were posted. He and his wife (pregnant at the time I believe) were in an off-set frontal crash at about 40 mph. No one in the Escape was injured in any major way.

    Here's another one:
    http://www.geocities.com/rockford250/Crash.htm

    Again, everyone was OK.

    Here's the original again:
    http://home.adelphia.net/~billylitt/crash.html

    Also note that both wrecked Escape's don't look like the one in the IIHS test pictures. Not that their scenario couldn't happen to someone. It's just that the odds are low that someone would be in that exact same crash.

    The IIHS test is one example of a crash. The link mentioned above was another. Two different outcomes are shown for very similar circumstances. You can believe whatever you want.

    Now it's true that the Escape didn't fare well in the IIHS's example, but it did fare very well in all of the NHTSA's tests. So it is not the death trap that you're trying to make it out to be.

    I also mentioned one time that Honda may have designed the new CR-V to score well in all of the tests, and that it may have a weak point elsewhere that wasn't tested. Even varmint agreed that it could have been designed to do so. There is obviously no way for me to prove this, but I said it because the old CR-V scored just as poorly as the Escape did in the IIHS test. Honda probably saw this and improved upon it. I'm sure Ford will do the same as the next gen Escape is to be based on the Mazda 6's platform which is much better than the heavily modified 626 platform it is based on now.

    You also have to factor in that the Escape is more adept to staying out of accidents too. :)

    "Yet, the Honda was the cheapest to insure"

    It's also cheaper to buy (going by MSRP) which has a positive effect on insurance rates too.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    That last couple of times I was in an accident I have no idea what my exact speed was. I find it interesting when people know exactly how fast they were going.

    Of course Honda saw flaws in their design and corrected them. They are one of the only manufacturers to invest in their own crash test facility.

    I'm not trying to make it out to be a "death trap", I simply posted a link to crash test results. Relax. They speak for themselves. There is NO WAY I'm gonna take some guys account of what happened in a crash over a test in a controlled enviornment. That's why the statement that the best way to avoid injury in an accident is to avoid one doesn't fly. Because there are too many variables. Things you cannot count on. Crash tests have no variables. Within a test facility, they are all conducted in the same manner.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    My local police station consults some guy who can estimate what speed you were traveling by examining skidmarks and damages to the car.

    I've never been in a car accident, but if I don't try to panic brake, I can probably estimate how fast I was traveling because I'm usually mindful of the speed I'm doing.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    just as +/- 2 psi can have a huge impact on performace so, I would imagine, +/- 2 mph would make a difference in a crash.

    What if your speedo is off?

    All I'm saying is one persons account of what happened could be greatly flawed. Did you hit the brakes just before impact? The gas? The clutch? Some grass? Did the vehicle hit ice? Did you hit a curb?

    If crash test had no merit, they wouldn't do them. I don't really see how it's open to argument, it's not an opinion, it's factual data.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Oh I see (I jumped into the middle of the ongoing debate - didn't really know what the crux of the argument was about).
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I think Bagg's intent was to show that the IIHS and NHTSA tests do not represent what will happen in every type of crash. The impact suffered in his example is intentionally different (though similar) to prove that point. In short, all it takes is a modest variation in the conditions of the accident to change the final outcome.

    I agree with that, to a point. However, in the absence of perfect testing for every type of accident, I'll still go with the vehicle that has a higher score in those tests we do have.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "I'll still go with the vehicle that has a higher score in those tests we do have."

    They do mean something to a lot of people and I do check them before buying a car myself. But only to find out if the vehicle is in fact some sort of "death trap". However, I will not base my whole decision on what those test tell me because every vehicle is going to have at least one weak point in the structure and a good test score doesn't guarantee that I will never be hit there.

    "I don't really see how it's open to argument, it's not an opinion, it's factual data."

    Yes, but the facts they present only apply to one isolated incident with, as you said, no variables. If they'd do another test where they move the vehicle six inches to the left or right, there's a good chance that the results would change.

    It's too expensive to do several tests on all vehicles so we do have to live with what they give us. You have to take more into account than one score when judging a vehicle though.

    For what it's worth, I'm not trying to disprove their test results. They are factual, but their one test is not the only measure of a vehicle's safety. A lot of folks around here like to point them out and wear the CR-V's results like a badge, but the Escape did do just as well as the CR-V in all of the other published tests (minus one star). Add those test scores together with the safety features offered and performance data to get a better idea of how safe a vehicle really is.

    The police can tell how fast you were going by measuring skid marks or the distance a piece of your vehicle traveled from the point of impact.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    A lot of folks around here like to point them out and wear the CR-V's results like a badge,

    And why not?

    but the Escape did do just as well as the CR-V in all of the other published tests (minus one star).

    If you look at the numbers behind the stars (click on the results) you'll find the CR-V's are significantly better than those from the Escape. As you know, I am not a crash test guru, so I can only guess at this. The CR-V posts numbers that are, in many instances, half of what the Escape gets, (Head Injury Count HIC 266-298 to 417-597 and femur load numbers of #507 #875# #483 #427 versus #1128 #1193 #830). I think that, maybe, the IIHS test takes those differences into consideration. So, instead of giving stars based upon government standards, they give a best buy status (or poor, fair, good, excellent) based upon results from every other vehicle you could purchase in that category.

    I could be wrong but, to me, it indicates that the CR-V is one of the safest (if not THE safest)in it's class. Something that is further substantiated by the fact it get's five stars per standards set up by the government

    Know what I'm sayin?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "Know what I'm sayin?"

    Yes, and I agree that the CR-V is one of the safest if not the safest vehicle in this class. That doesn't mean the Escape is not safe, and it does not mean that the Escape can't be safer than the CR-V in certain situations either.

    Know what I'm sayin?

    So saying this: "someone other than me thinks protecting occupants is a higher priority than potential repair bills." just doesn't make much sense because the Escape does do a good job of protecting it's occupants. It's just not quite as good as the CR-V in all situations.

    Which leads us to...

    "A lot of folks around here like to point them out and wear the CR-V's results like a badge,

    And why not?"

    Because you're not guaranteed to be safer in an accident or to live longer than me by driving a CR-V. There are too many variables outside of the test world that have proven that to us.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    I'm sorry, I haven't seen ANY variables outside of the testing facility that would make me say the Escape is better in ANY crash situation.

    Hear say accounts of accidents don't fly in my book. Of course, that's just me. Unless of course there was a CR-V that got into the same accident on the same road with all variables being the same, there is no basis for saying -

    That doesn't mean the Escape is not safe, and it does not mean that the Escape can't be safer than the CR-V in certain situations either.

    Yeah...right...in some certain situations, that no one tests, the Escape may be better. Talk about no guarantees.

    Escape does do a good job of protecting it's occupants. It's just not quite as good as the CR-V in all situations.

    Yeah, like ALL of the situations the government and insurance agencies deem reliable indicators of crash survivablity. A good job is fine. Plenty of things do a good job. If I'm spending my money, I don't want second, third or LAST, when I can get the best for less money. Especially when the safety of my family and I are concerned.

    I've got my badge on. Proud to wear it too. Of course, I don't know which one it is, CR, Intellichoice, J.D. Power, IIHS or NHTSA. I'm sure it's not a blue oval.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    If top scores in each of the industry tests isn't "badgeworthy", what is? In terms of crash protection, how could it do better?

    I think that expecting a "guarantee" of safety is a bit unrealistic.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "If I'm spending my money, I don't want second, third or LAST, when I can get the best for less money."

    Remember though, it was the best choice for you. I, and many others, felt the Escape was the better choice whether we read those test results or not. You do know that not everyone reads those or cares about them as much as we do right?

    So much for test results deciding who buys what.

    But I guess it doesn't matter what I say because apparently I don't care about my life or the lives of my family members by choosing the Escape. I guess I'll just see you all in the after life. ;) Will I have to drive a Honda though?

    "Yeah, like ALL of the situations the government and insurance agencies deem reliable indicators of crash survivablity."

    They deemed the Space Shuttle Columbia safe to drive too.

    What is it now, CR is the Honda Bible and the U.S. government is the Honda God because they make the rules for the tests? :)

    "Hear say accounts of accidents don't fly in my book."

    So the pictures didn't mean anything? They were real world examples, not results from a test vacuum.

    If the IIHS test is the end all say all to vehicle safety, why weren't the occupants of those two crashes severely injured?

    "there is no basis for saying -

    That doesn't mean the Escape is not safe, and it does not mean that the Escape can't be safer than the CR-V in certain situations either."

    Yes there is. When you read the rest of what I typed I said that all vehicles have weak points (I'm really starting to believe that you think the CR-V doesn't though.). One vehicle's weak point may be another vehicle's strong point. The bumper bash is a good example of that even though it doesn't relate to safety all that much.

    Why is it that a lot you Honda folks have this urge to prove everything? Test results and reviews are not hard fact for every situation known to man. They are guides designed to help you along the path of purchasing a new vehicle. They all have some merit, but in the end you have to choose for yourself.

    Seriously, how can you look at the pictures from two people's unfortunate, although real, accidents which produced completely different results from "the test" and say that the vehicle is un-safe? Or that a person doesn't care about his/her life or the lives of others by driving one?

    I'm really curious about this. What is it like to drive the "perfect" vehicle and why isn't everyone driving one. When is the government scheduling the replacement of all their tanks with CR-V's?

    Here's another one for you:

    http://www.afreserve.com/racing/offroad_home.asp

    Looks like the government does deem the Escape as being good for something.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "I think that expecting a "guarantee" of safety is a bit unrealistic."

    I know. Why then is it so hard to believe that a vehicle can have a weak point and/or be unsafe in certain situations. If you don't believe that that is possible, then you are basically under the impression that your safety IS guaranteed because the vehicle has no weak point(s).

    By saying "you", I don't specifically mean you (varmint). I know you didn't necessarily say such things. :)

    Am I the only Escape supporter left on this board?
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    "Am I the only Escape supporter left on this board?"

    I wouldn't say so. I'm expecting another round of hidden-TSB and 4-ft of stopping distance from Scape any minute now.
  • rleirlei Member Posts: 26
    Not that you're the only supporter of escape. But to me you seem to be the only one consistently trying to defend escape even when there is not enough proof to support you.

    Don't refer me to those pictures you posted, those accidents are not as severe as the ones from IIHS or NHTSA tests. To me, you might as well post some pictures with an Escape hit by a bicycle and compare that to a CR-V hit by a train. IIHS or NHTSA can only test extreme condition which can't be use to represent all accidents, and I do see your point that CR-V is not safer than escape in all kinds of collisions.

    But, with the proof we have, overall CR-V is safer than Escape. You don't have to believe things based on existing evidence, and you can believe that is Santa.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "But, with the proof we have, overall CR-V is safer than Escape."

    I know! I've typed that like three times today. Some people just aren't getting it.

    "Don't refer me to those pictures you posted, those accidents are not as severe as the ones from IIHS or NHTSA tests."

    How do you figure. They all happened at about the same speed for all we know.

    Let's say the one's I posted were slightly lower speeds. It does still show that the IIHS test scenario is not the only type of accident that can happen. Therefore, it has not been PROVEN that the CR-V is safer than everything in all situations. It is safer in 2 isolated accident scenarios. The other three, according to the almighty Government (I'm not a Government basher by the way), were considered close enough to merit the same rating.

    "even when there is not enough proof to support you."

    Sorry, I like to think for myself. It's a curse.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    icvci,
    Did I read elsewhere that you are looking to buy a Protege5?

    You do know that buying from Mazda would be supporting the "enemy". ;)

    All kidding aside, the Protege5 is a really nice car. If you want to wait a little while a wagon version of the Mazda6 is supposed to be released at the end of this year. A Mazda3 is on the way too.
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