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CR-V vs Escape

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Comments

  • hondaman01hondaman01 Posts: 163
    Also uses more gas and stalls a lot! Nice try...........still does not answer my question as to why acceleration is only a half second off with a 40hp difference. Your reasoning is not one of an engineer! My chum told me that when he tried to pull 3000 pounds the truck felt like it was going to come apart and he had all the bells and whistles for towing. I don't think they were made to really pull that much long distance. He now owns a Pilot and it pulls no prob BUT that is in a different league now isn't it?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    a typical Honda drone response..
    Gearing does make a difference. The Escape is more of a truck.. more towing, hauling, more payload, more maxpayload, more GVWR.
    Also looks like the Escape wins in Sept. motor Trend comparo! Yikes, this is going to make you Honda drones mad..
    I tow my two jet skiis and trailer/gear just fine in my Escape, solid as a rock! don't go there with the Pilot towing capabilities.. they are WEAK when comparing like vehicles in this class.
    Also, if Honda were so perfect and advanced why didn't they fix the rear tires weakness issue in crashtests? from model 2001 to 2002?
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    Scape, I have a rebuttle with the towing debate.


    According to other countries other then North America the towing capacity for the 2002 CRV is 1500 Kg's which is 3307 pounds! Yahoooo! All CRV's are the same not matter where you go in the world, except some places have the smaller engine.


    http://www.honda.co.nz/


    click on CRV, then specifications!


    Just because Honda America has a bunch of conservative engineers, where Ford lacks the later, doesn't mean the CRV isn't capable of hauling as much as the Escape.

  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Nice try dave.. Your telling me Honda chose not to say the CRV could tow 3K because of a bunch of conservative engineers! LOL! C'mon your reaching for straws here. If Honda had the choice to say the CRV could tow even 2,500 lbs they would. Where is the trailer hitch? Look at the numbers Dave, 160HP/160ft/lbs of torque, look at your torque curve. I already loaded an automatic CRV down with 4 adults and about 3-400lbs of gear. NO-way the CRV could handle an additional 3K. The vehicle gasped, rasped, hunted for gears and barely made it up MT Hood HWY 26 and maintained even 50MPH.. The CRV doesn't have the gearing, GVWR or frame to tow 3K.
    I wonder why Motor Trend decided to test a 5spd CRV against automatics.. Maybe they wanted to CRV to at least win one category LOL! :-))
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Posts: 593
    Insurance regulations are stricter here. It wasn't the engineers that decided to not allow the CR-V to tow less...it was the accounting and legal departments. People make SO much off of lawsuits here, that car companies (under orders from insurance companies) have to make really really REALLY sure cars are capable of what they say.

    As a direct example, the Escape could probably be rated to tow over 5000 pounds in Europe or Austrailia, but that's just a guess on my part. Anyone have any firm numbers?

    The whole point is, the Escape is still stronger in the towing department, due to stronger engine, stronger chassis, and stronger suspension. So no matter what country you go to, sell the Escape and CR-V side by side, and the Escape will have a higher rated towing capacity. Well, except for Japan, where everyone knows that the government there gives a leg up to Japanese manufacturers. ;)
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    Scape, back up your argument with some substance, like npaladin2000.


    npaladin2000, I took the liberty to look up the escape in the same country that I linked the CRV to in my last post. The CRV is rated at 1500 Kg's and the Escape is rated at 1600 Kg's.


    http://www.ford.co.nz/default.asp?content=sideDoor&location=showroom/showroom.asp&color=010025

    Click on passenger vehicle, then escape, then specifications, then fact sheet.

    Each company has to buy insurance for itself on the grand scale. Honda America has always been far more conservative the Ford has been.

  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Posts: 593
    Just for reference, that 1600 kg is 3527.40 pounds, so the Escape can tow more than the CR-V too, which can only tow 3306.93 pounds (and no, I can NOT see a 2.4 liter 4 cyl towing that much, no mattert how much torque you Honda lovers say it has). That's a 200 pouund difference in US measure. You also have to realize that in kg, the tendency is to round to the nearest 100. However, in the US, the tendency is to round to the nearest 500, i think...unless someone knows of a tow rating that's not a factor of 500. There's probably one around somewhere.
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    npaladin2000, who would have though that a 4 cylinder would be comparable to a v6 in regards to acceleration? You are right about rounding numbers they way you stated. Essentially when rounding Kg you are rounding in bathches of 220 pounds instead of the American way of rounding 500 pounds. So, foreigners have a more accurate way of showing the costumers the towing limit of the vehicle.

    I am sure everyone is aware of this, but just to make sure.... a straight 4 cylinder has four independent cylinders. The V6 has three pairs of cylinders that are joined together. Not, the same thing as a straight 6 which has 6 independent cylinders. So the V6 falls somewhere between the straight 4 and the straight 6. So, yes the v6 is made to be stronger then the 4, but not as much as one might initially deduce.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Folks, there is no set standard for how a manufacturer reports towing capacity. For example, the numbers that Honda publishes are for a fully loaded vehicle (four passengers and their luggage). However, the numbers used by the big 2.5 are often with only a driver in the vehicle. I haven't found a source which gives specific information on either of these vehicles.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    types of vehicles over the years. The 2.4 has 160HP and 161ft/lbs of torque to pull the weight of the vehicle. Add passengers, gear and you add upwards of another 1200-1400lbs, now add another 3K! to that 4cyl, no-way, no-how. Keep trying to justify dave in your mind. The Escape tows more than the CRV bud...3,500lbs vs 1,500lbs.. The main point here is the V6 is much stronger than the 4cyl in the CRV.
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    Scape, LOL, I never said the CRV can tow more then the Escape. You are so sensitive about your escape that you put words in my mouth. Go back and read all my posts. I simply was pointing out the fact that the CRV can tow more then 1500 pounds if you want it to. It is closer to the Escape then the American market makes it out to be.

    I personally wouldn't want to tow 3500 pounds with the escape, and I wouldn't want to tow more then 2000 pounds with the CRV. That is just my opinion on how I would tow with these two vehicles if I did tow with them.
  • bessbess Posts: 972
    WHAT?????
    the last time I checked, Straight 4, v4, straight 6, v6 all had cylinders that meet at the same crankshaft.. There is no concept of 'independant' or 'pairs' or 'joined' cylinders..

    With the 'V' configuration, there are some extra parts as needed (2 sets of cams etc). In this case, you would look at the v6 as 2 banks of 3cylinders, where the left side cylinder valves are driven by one set of cams, and the right side by another.. (or front side/back side since the Escape V6 is put in sideways).

    The 'end result' might be similar to what you indicate (straight 6 being a little more efficient than a v6), but the technical details you state as to 'why' are way off.

    I say 'might be' because I don't know if there is any mechanical advantage/disadvantage either way, and if there is, it is so small it's not worth mentioning..
  • jlyndjlynd Posts: 4
    I just tried to buy a Honda CR-V, but the dealer could not correct the wheel alignment (they tried 3 times and gave up - called it a characteristic!). I drove a different CR-V on the lot and it pulled to the right as well. I wanted to buy a Honda because of the quality I had always had before, but I won't buy a defective vehicle just because of it's nameplate.

    How is the quality of the Escape? I have seen them around and they look good. I've never test driven one, but am thinking about it. I know the Escape has had a lot of recalls in prior years. I don't like to fix cars, so if the Escapes spend a lot of time in the shop I would rather pass and wait for Honda to get their act together.

    Thanks!
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Posts: 163
    Keep your dumb comments polite scape! name calling will get you no where! I am not a Honda drone as you state! Take your own criticism and swallow your pride! You started this thread so deal with the comments!

    You still haven't answered my question about acceleration. I am waiting for an engineer to explain to me why Honda is only a half second off of your "perfect" vehicle with a 40 hp difference!

    I have no idea what you are getting at about rear tires!!!!??? Why hasn't Ford fixed the stalling problem?

    I do agree that there is no way a CRV can pull 3000 pounds. That would be dangerous for the handling of the vehicle. As for your gearing theory.....I am not concerned....none of these vehicles were really designed with towing in mind. The Escape and Tribute can pull more but it is not made for that. If you want to pull, get a vehicle with a frame. I can pull a jet ski too. I pull a 4 wheeler (Honda by the way) in the summer and a snowmobile in the winter with 146 hp and no problems! Who really cares.

    I have no squeeks, rattles, plastic parts falling off whatever.....you have had to have your rear door and window ajusted already cause it would rattle. I have 40000km's on mine and get 1 1/2 times the gas millage you do BUT you have your choice and I have mine.
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    Bess, I was trying to keep it simple. Are you trying to tell me that V6's are as smooth and powerful as the inline 6?

    The inline 6 has several major advantages over the V6, such as a perfect balance because it doesn't matter if it is first order or second order harmonics because the individual cylinders balance each other out. No balancer shaft required. As you probably know, an inline 6 is essentially two three cylinder engines aligned to balance out the 1st and 2nd order harmonics.

    That said the V6 is not nearly as efficient in generating power or keeping vibrations down. Regarding the former, the V6 requires duplicate valve gears and camshafts which create a generous amount of frictional loss.

    Bottom line, the V6 has more energy loss because it duplicates valve gears and camshafts, which increases frictional loss.

    Major advantage of V6 over the inline 6.... the V6 is much easier to mass produce on the assembly line, therefore it cost less to manufacture.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    The Escape/Trib had some initial recalls in 2000 for the 2001 model year. If you visit the NHSTA site and read the recalls you will see it was for certain build dates and lots not every Escape/Tribute built. The 2002 Escape/Trib have no recalls. visit escape central and the yahoo escape boards to name a few. There are thousands upon thousands of satisfied Escape/Trib owners out here on the net. Test drive its free!
    Hondaman.. and your comment about stalling wasn't dumb?
    First of all you are talking a 5spd. Second gearing does come into play along with tire size. Third you have the opportunity with a 5spd to redline through each gear. This is how you achieve the 0-60 times that some say best the V6 automatic in the Escape. You need to tell people its the 5spd NOT the automatic. Why don't you belive consumer reports 0-60 numbers for the Escape Hondaman? This is the Honda bible for quality/reliability stats Honda owners love to quote.
    I notice noone fromt he Honda clan commented on Motor Trends article of the Escape beating the CRV...
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    An inline 6 is preferable IMO but manufactures use V6s cause they are easier to assemble / balance and a V takes up less real estate under the hood but hopefully it won't matter much longer http://www.edmunds.com/future/2004/ford/escape/hybrid4drsuv/preview.html
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    ...name calling will get you no where!

    I concur.

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Posts: 163
    First...Thanks Tidester. Sometimes scapes comments make people a little frustrated on this board and today it just happened to be me!

    Scape.......for the last time, I NEVER EVER believed the CRV could beat the Escape or Tribute. I mentioned this soooooo many times that after my bad experience with the Trib I did think that it was very fast! Is this now clear? All I was trying to say was with a 40hp advantage, it should be beating it by at least 2 seconds but its not is it? Why is that? Don't give me that "gearing theory" again cause 40 hp is a BIG advantage. If I can admit that the Escapes 6 is fast why can't you admit that the Honda 4 is very good at what it does? I thought you were an engineer!!!? I only base ALL of my comments of this vehicle on my own personal experiences and some of others that I have been told. I hope this will be clear from now on.

    As for the article in MT, I have not received this months issue yet. I only know very little about what was written and even they say it beat the Escape I think!!? The only reason it won overall is that it fills a gap in the SUV market that other manufacturers did not think that anyone would attempt and I have to admire the Escape for this feat HOWEVER in my opinion, it will not have the same resale value, safety (already proven) and especially, reliability which in terms of sale for sale seems to be true so far. BUT once again, Ford has done a commendable job of filling the missing gap contrary to what the RAV 4 missed out on. Honda and Ford look at this market in totally different terms and both seem to be working.

    My dumb "stalling issue" was only brought up because you keep asking questions as to why Honda does not do this or that!

    You have a hard time understanding why Honda has such a loyal following and the only way I can explain it is that they have raced everything from lawn mowers to Formula 1 and won it all......they must know something about reliability and technology! You amaze me (for an engineer) of your lack of knowledge of this and the accomplishments Honda (along with Toyota) have achieved in only about 30 years compared to a company that invented the automobile and today is struggling financially and technologically and even logistically!

    Lastly, perfection does not exist in either vehicle and advantages are decided by its owner but for arguments sake, MT's article does not discourage the CRV after all, it was decided only on measurements and not long term satisfaction that Honda has surpassed all but Toyota over the years so we shall see how your logic works out.
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    I would say you would be happy with either vehicle. I however find the CRV to be a FAR better vehicle for me.

    All things equal except where I see Honda has the advantage and these are the things that matter to me.
    - Much safer then the Escape based on "the" two major crash test
    - Lower emissions by far!
    - better mileage
    - previous generation CRV's high resale
    - superb build quality, just sit in both vehicles and you can see the difference
    - Every other category that I didn't mention, the CRV or escape are pretty much the same, except for towing, but see above posts for more "fun" information.

    I have not had any problems with the CRV pulling to the right. The road is crowned that way, lol. Anyways I have 14,500 miles and I am one happy second time owner of the CRV (my previous CRV had 70,000 miles WITHOUT a single problem)!
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