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CR-V vs Escape

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Comments

  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    bess,

    I think that information is referring to future models. The 2003's are considered current models at this time.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    "Honda folks were quick to point out how much better they were selling month to month vs the Escape. Looks like in Sept, the Escape sold a 1000 more vehicles.."

    Check out the year-to-date column...CR-V still leads with 112,695 units vs. the Escape's 105,766 units. Both are still nowhere near the Liberty's year-to-date number, though.
  • The Liberty is definately a winner in my opinion. I spent a couple of weeks with one and anyone who wants a real 4x4.....this is the one to get! BUT it is not the same idea as a CRV or Escape even though they put it in the same category. I liked it a lot better than I did the Tribute I had!
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    One more time for those who missed it before.


    October sales:


    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=13522


    http://hondanews.com/forms/corp/sales/02oct.html


    hondaman,

    The Liberty is pretty nice. I just could not deal with the truck like ride and the fact that DC builds the thing.

  • Well baggs, it was not that bad but you are right........I would not want to live with that for 4 or 5 years! I would maybe like to have one for week-ends but that is kind of not logical!
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    If you add up the Tribute and Escape sales you will find that combo sells more then the CRV.

    Can we include the element sales with the CRV next year?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    "Well baggs, it was not that bad but you are right........I would not want to live with that for 4 or 5 years! I would maybe like to have one for week-ends but that is kind of not logical!"

    No, I guess it wouldn't be.

    Although, I've driven my friend's 2002 Explorer XLT V8, and my Father-in-law's 2002 Explorer Eddie Bauer V6. Both were nice because of the IRS, but still felt somewhere in between the Escape and anything with a solid rear axle.

    "Can we include the element sales with the CRV next year?"

    Not unless they are building them on the same exact assembly line with about 80% of the same parts. Those are the rules.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0211/11/a01-7354.htm


    To all you Bank One customers out there, hold on to your pocket books!

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,421
    You should delete and just post the link - it looks like you've pasted a large part of the article over here, and copyright lawyers frown on that sort of thing.

    Thanks!

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  • Honda recalls 247,000 CR-V SUVs

    Reuters / August 05, 2003

    DETROIT (Reuters) -- Honda Motor Co. Ltd. will recall about 247,000 CR-V SUVs to fix a part that could keep the transmission from shifting into park, U.S. federal safety regulators said on Tuesday.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said the recall covers 2002 and 2003 model-year CR-Vs. It said rusting of the shift cable linkage could prevent the automatic transmission from shifting to park, which could cause the vehicles to roll.

    Dealers will inspect the cable and install a rust-resistant control pin.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    freeber,
    Where did you get those from? Don't they read their previous reviews before writing a new one about the same vehicle? The CR-V review shows the Escape with 64.8 cubic ft. of cargo space, but the Escape review shows 69.2 cubic ft. among other things.
  • Anyone seen this:

    http://www.escape-central.com/1forum/showthread.php?s=4233f65244f2a58fedfc74eb7c5367aa&threadid=4678


    It's a point by point comparison picture showing an Escape and CRV side by side! They do almost look IDENTICAL! The question is did Honda look at the new Escape styling before coming up with the new CRV design? From that pic I would say ABSOLUTELY, I hadn't realized how similar the styling on the 2 were since I think the huge front lights on CRV's (overdone styling IMHO) tend to make you forget about everything else. lol :o)

  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Baggs - That's not really the point, though. As you yourself stated, the XLT you used for comparison is a higher priced vehicle. And while Honda doesn't include the same equipment, it offers different equipment (or features) that are missing on the Escape. The CR-V is often rated as a strong value for it's content to price ratio. The Escape is no slouch either, but, by reducing equipment and keeping the price, they cut into its ratio.


    If Ford is decontenting the Escape trim lines, they are subtracting equipment to increase their profits per vehicle. That's true. Now, ask yourself why. Answer: they aren't making enough money on them. If we were to compare the two vehicles, we'd need a profit per vehicle analysis. I haven't found one. I do have averages for each company, though.


    "Not surprisingly, Honda made more money per car than any other automaker, $1,661. That's nearly $400 more per car than Nissan Motor and $500 more than Toyota. GM was the only domestic producer to make money: just $337 per car. Ford Motor lost $1,913 [per vehicle]."


    So, last year, Honda averaged $3,574 more per vehicle. Note, these figures are calcuated using the price that dealers pay, not the price the customer pays (so dealer markups are not a factor).


    Here's the full article (mostly about manufacturing and the risks Honda is taking). Forbes

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    varmint,
    I'm not sure which post you are referring to. But I'll try anyway.

    Even with those little things removed from the Escape (we can use the XLT vs EX again) it's still a great value. The sticker prices are only a couple of thousand dollars off of each other but yet the Escape still offers a lot of the Honda's dealer installed options as standard equipment. Don't forget about the bigger engine (a V6 is traditionally about $1000 - $1500 more than an I4 when both are offered), and more complex 4WD system that add to the Escape's price. I really can't think of anything else that the CR-V has as an extra when compared to the Escape other than the two things you mentioned (picnic table, and full-size spare).

    What I'm getting at is that Ford is not doing anything that is out of the ordinary for an automobile manufacturer. I think we used the new Civic's lack of a double wishbone front suspension as an example before. It didn't get any less expensive, but a lot of it's parts did. In all fairness, some improvements were made that offset some of the downgrades.

    After reading that Forbes article, it's pretty clear that Honda is doing a better job of it right now though. They had better keep on their toes. Rushing product out the door usually does not lead to quality.
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    b5marc,

    The CRV was released in Japan over a year before the CRV was launced in the US. So that CRV has been out in Japan in the year 2000. So I doubt Honda stole any design ideas from Ford.
  • freeberfreeber Posts: 116
    What I posted was less than quarter of each article. No need to run off to the attorney just yet guys.....sheesh.

    Links to competing forums are frowned upon, so I snipped some interesting comments out and posted them here. Next time I'll be sure to use the footnotes and bibliography features of this site.

    I think copyright lawyers would be more interested in you guys posting the article as your own than me quoting it. Then again, maybe I'm wrong.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    LOL. Yes, Baggs, you got the post I was referencing correct. I guess I'm no longer keeping up with the traffic in here.

    Let me see if I can do a better job of explaining this. You want to compare content, but you only want to use those items that are considered optional (by the industry or these two makers). That doesn't work. It would only make sense if the base cars were the same. A Corvette with no radio, no A/C, and cloth seats may still be a better value than a Yugo loaded with every luxury item on the market.

    I think you recognize this already. As you mentioned, the Escape has the V6, towing, and other intrinsic advantages. On the CR-V's side we have the spare tire, picnic table, cargo space, sliding seats, manual trans, etc. Many of these features are not what the industry would consider options, yet, they raise the value of the vehicle.

    Value is a function of dollars to content (both intrinsic and optional). You're looking to compare greatest content at cost. Another way to view it is to compare vehicles with the lowest prices and their content.

    As for the Civic, that is a case where the vehicle was completely redesigned. It was not a mid-cycle change. The Civic lost its expensive double bones, which the average buyer never needed. Instead Honda gave the buyer more space, a better engine, better crash protection, and other things they might actually need.

    In this scenario, Ford is removing content without offering anything in return. The Escape doesn't get more space, a better engine, or better crash protection. And this wasn't a complete redesign. Sure, they have steep incentives to lower the price, but those were already in place before the content was removed.

    Bottom line. While I agree that the changes are minor, the current Escape will be a better value than the new one.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,421
    Freeber - thanks for the clarification. Looked like you were reciting from just one article. I thought some of it was "disjointed."

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  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Posts: 1,110
    Does it really take a newpaper article for someone to decide two vehicles look similar?

    Did you notice strong similarities before reading the article?

    Can't we just trust our eyes?
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    I wasn't about to register at another forum just to read one article. Someone want to summarize? Frankly, the dominant features on these vehicles don't look anything alike.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    The dominant features (headlights, taillights, etc) don't resemble each other. However, I do think that the overall execution, especially from the side, of the CR-V mirrors the Escape. Although the Escape's design is hardly groundbreaking to begin with.

    image
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,421
    No pic showing up here, Diploid. Looks like one of those "deep linking" problems offhand....

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  • Maybe this is why there are cuts being made to the Escapes equipment!!!?


    http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/021115-2.htm

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    I'm not a Microsoft basher by any means, but is it just me, or does anyone else find it disturbing that the world's second largest auto manufacturer only has about half as much cash as Bill Gates?

    varmint,
    Let's try to keep up now. :)

    "On the CR-V's side we have the spare tire, picnic table, cargo space, sliding seats, manual trans, etc. Many of these features are not what the industry would consider options, yet, they raise the value of the vehicle."

    I understand your side, but I think we went in different directions at some point again. I wouldn't include cargo space or things like shoulder room in the content arena because those are static numbers that you have to accept when you buy the vehicle. Sure the CR-V has a little more cargo space. If Ford put the Escape's spare on the back door and lowered the floor by about an inch (There goes the Escape's ground clearance and bumper bash test advantages. There's always a trade off.), you'd pretty much have a wash. The same can be done with other measurements, but the dealer can't offer things like that in the same way that they offer something like body cladding for $430.

    Let me try to put it another way. Take the price of an Escape XLT Premium and the price of a CR-V EX, both 2002's. I use these trims because most of the stuff that Ford is deleting is only found on the XLT Premium anyway, so there really is no point in comparing the lower end models for this. The Escape's sticker is about $1100 more than the CR-V's, but the CR-V can be equipped, by the dealer, with a lot of the extra's that the Escape has for about $1400. This is the body cladding, trailer hitch, etc.. Now the CR-V is more expensive, but still lacking some of the creature comforts that the Escape has standard. Correct me if I'm wrong, things like coat hooks, overhead console, etc. that are being deleted from the Escape are not included with the CR-V from the factory. So cutting those little things out of the Escape really does not decrease it's value when compared to the competition because the competition makes you pay extra for a lot of those things they lack out of the box.

    I do agree that the newer Escape's will have less value than the older models because of the cuts. But I don't think it will look like any less of a value against the competition.

    I just want to add that I do see the added value of extra space. I just don't think that a couple of inches is going to make a big difference in everyone's book. Much the same way as 30 lbs of extra roof rack cargo capacity won't either. Most people will just want to know if the roof has a rack. Besides, in order to obtain all of the CR-V's extra leg room you have to push the back seat all the way back which lessens the available cargo space. If you are driving three women to the beach for a week's vacation (like I will be doing next year), you're gonna need all the cargo room that you can get if you know what I mean. ;)

    Hopefully that makes a little more sense.
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    baggs,

    I have to correct one thing you said. The CRV's back seats when slid all the way back yields the cargo space that you see in all the specs. If you slide the seats all the way forward you end up with cargo space that rivals the bigger SUV's.

    In additon the reslae of the CRV is bound to be greater as is the 1st gen CRV versus the Escape.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Plastered all over the paper are ads for both of these vehicles. Now, Honda folks claim the CRV is less expensive. This is an ad posted from a very large (mega) dealership. This dealership has Honda/Ford/GM/Mazda/Hyundia/Toyota/Suzuki.. you name it.
    2003 Honda CRV EX Auto 4x4 only 2 at $23,944!! yeeeouch@!@
    Same page ad for Fords..
    2003 Ford Escape 4x4 "Limited" 7, I repeat again.. 7! available for $23,975.. There is roughly a $30 dollar difference here in price. Yet the Escape offers heated seats, leather, sunroof, 16" styled wheels/tires, tow pkg.. V6.. and more.. How the Honda crowd can claim a less expensive price?? I don't know..
    Lets not start talking about styling.. We all know who is the clear winner here.. The Escape/Tribute.
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    scape2,

    So what?

    I would much rather pay 30 dollars less to have a more fuel efficient, far safer, better built machine.

    BTW, the EX also comes with a sunroof. The MSRP for the CRV you are talking about is $22,400. Either you read the headlijnes wrong or the delaers are throwing in some extras that you are not sharing with us or you are not aware of.
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    Scape,

    Oh yeah, the CRV costs less to insure! The safety of the vehicle brings down the premium quite a bit.
  • Scape, that is impossible!!!!! In Canadian dollars that would be about 37000$ Here we do have leather and all the other stuff you mentioned for 31900$ So I think you better go talk to that dealer!
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "I wouldn't include cargo space or things like shoulder room in the content arena because those are static numbers that you have to accept when you buy the vehicle."

    But static numbers and built in features are still part of the intrinsic value of the vehicle. You cannot measure overall value by comparing optional content alone. Content value is only half the story.

    Here's an example: When you compare a vehicle's ability to accelerate, do you compare horsepower alone? No. You must also take into account how much the vehicle weighs, how it is geared, and a host of other variables.

    Also, the automatic addition of equipment does not always raise the value. Take side cladding for example. Many folks think that it spoils the look of the car and they don't want it. Buyers of some Porsches have to PAY to have bumper bullets deleted from the car. The CR-V with a 5 speed transmission is cheaper than the automatic, but more desirable to those who like to row their own gears. So having that "option" is a value in it's own right. It decreases costs and adds functionality all in one shot.

    Then there is quality as well as quantity. On paper, the CR-V's 6 disk stereo/cassette player with 6 speakers looks like an advantage over a 6 disk system with four speakers. But the stock speakers in most Honda's are junk and it's entirely possible that another car's four speaker system could sound better. This is one of the big problems with paper comparisons.

    Ironically, Honda added coat hooks for the 2003 models.

    "I do agree that the newer Escape's will have less value than the older models because of the cuts. But I don't think it will look like any less of a value against the competition."

    I don't see how that is possible. How can a vehicle lose value compared to itself, but not when compared to others? You may feel that it still has a higher value, but it has to have lost ground.

    Summary time... Content value ignores intrinsic value and, therefore, is not a good indicator of overall value. Additional content is not always going to raise value. Content comparisons do not take into account quality. Your plan to use only optional content has way too many holes in it.
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