CR-V vs Escape

kizhe

timhonda: I am with you: The CRV setup (with shift lever and parking brake) is CLEVER!!

scape2

May want to also test drive an 05 Escape/Trib. The shifter is moved to the floor. I prefered the v6 fun to drive factor in the Escape. I personally needed some towing capacity and the extra power for my lifestyle. I also felt the Escape had better handling and road manners than the CRV. Keep on test driving.. let us know what you decide..

explorerx4

wife is stuck on an '04 limited(black/black).
she wouldn't consider a 'v, rav, or forester.
esc has lots of features and good financing options. not a bargain pricewise, though.

bshel

Agree with you that the Escape is not a bargain pricewise, but if she loves it that much, it should be worth it. Have to be happy with the vehicle and if you can afford it, go for it.

bbag

We own both a 2002 Escape XLT AWD and a 1999 CR-V EX AWD, and here are my opinions.

1. The CR-V now has over 100,000 miles, and other than normal maintenance, one change of tires and brakes and a tune-up, there have been no unexpected service expenses. It drives today like the day we bought it - flawless!

2. The Escape was a great car until I passed the warranty period and hit the 45,000 mile mark when the following occured:
     a. At 45,050 miles - $400+ on brakes without warning. No squeaking, etc. One moment all is ok, the next is grinding and a lit brake light. According to the service tech, he stated that almost every Escape comes in for a full brake job (including rotors) at around 40,000 to 50,000 miles.
     b. At 50,025 miles - Suddenly without warning the car will not start. It will crank, but not turn-over. After 5 hours on the diagnostic and wire tracing, the problem is solved, along with another unexpected $400. According to the tow truck driver, he tows 3-5 Escape's per week with similar problems.
     c. At 50,500 miles - The engine shuts down without warning, thus losing all power (fun trying to turn off the highway) - going into service again - third time within 8 weeks.

Based on our experience, the CR-V can't be beat. Also if mileage is a concern, the Escape has averaged about 19 mpg, and the CR-V about 26 mpg.

baggs32

"According to the tow truck driver, he tows 3-5 Escape's per week with similar problems."

So was he driving a Chevy or a Dodge tow truck, and did the sticker on the back window have Calvin or Marvin the Martian peeing on the Ford logo?

Seriously though, sorry to hear about your problems, and honestly that's the first time I've heard of anything like that in over two years of reading these and other Escape forums.

My advise to you would be to try another dealer if you can. Some are better than others as I and a lot of other people around here can verify.

varmint

Bbag - Concerning issue "C"... A while back there was a common problem with Escapes stalling without warning. I think Ford found a fix for it and issued a TSB. I don't think it was defined as a recall, so you would not have been notified.

FWIW, my '99 CR-V EX has 91K on it and going strong. My one unscheduled service was for a distributor. I more or less killed it by getting too aggressive with the hose after an off-roading trip.

scape2

I'll be honest.. I would have believed you until your comment about the tow truck driver saying he tows 3-5 Escapes a week with a similar problem..
The Escape, in the past, was getting a bad rap for being "unreliable". Not mine, and not the thousands of others out on the net, some that are approaching 70-80K trouble free miles..

scape2

and the reliability ratings for the 01 Escape. Don't forget, this is the entry year Escape with "all the recalls". However, when people bothered themselves to actually look at the recalls they would have seen it was only for certain build lots/dates. The Escape is rated 5 out of 5 for reliabitliy... I'm living proof with my 01 Escape at that, beings its been flawless.

smsuvundecided

My problem with the Escape is the fuel economy. Even the new 2.3L in the 2005 model isn't much better. I test drove a 2005 Escape w/ 2.3L, it was a bit weak on power (IMO).

sharona1973

I'm sorry if this was already discussed. I was doing some surfing on the internet about new car improvements and came across Motor Trend's website for 2005 Future Vehicle Forecast and they wrote this:

2005 Honda CR-V: Freshened, with possible hybrid model added to lineup.

Any truth to this?

smsuvundecided

Doesn't that mean green or something?

varmint

There is nothing concrete known about the 2005 CR-V.

Honda has announced their plans for a hybrid Accord later in 2004. Since they did not do the same with information about the CR-V, I think it's safe to assume there will not be a hybrid until the next redesign.

smsuvundecided

The CR-V needs a redesign. The current model puts the "UGHH!" in "UGLY!". But that's just my opinion.

bluemalibu2000

I've had my silver CR-V LX for 3 weeks now. Problem is until I sell my Malibu I won't be driving it much. I'm starting to think you need to give American cars away, which makes me even more happy I have the CRV now. It always amazes me the number of Escapes I see sitting in used car lots, many priced 1/2 their original price, but I can relate to that because I'm experiencing the same thing trying to sell the Malibu. Anyhow, contrary to what the last poster says, I think my CRV is a sharp little SUV inside and out. I also think the Escape is a nice looking SUV by the way.

smsuvundecided

I was trying to get some more posts started in this forum. They're not that ugly, heck I may buy one if I don't get the deal I want on a 2004 Rav4. Here in Chicago they are selling 2004 CR-V AWD EX for under $21k. The Honda dealers have plenty of them in stock too.

As for the used Escapes at 1/2 the original, I would like to see that. If I could find a 2003 Escape for $12k I would buy it. But, I and many here who post in this forum would have a hard time believing your claim. I hardly ever see any used Escapes on the lot, and most are gone in days. You sound like the guy who claimed to know a tow truck driver who towed 3-5 Escapes per week.

Post a link to a dealer selling these Escapes (used) for half price please!

scape2

Where are you seeing older Escapes selling at 1/2 the price theey were new??! That would mean my 01 Escape xLT would sell retail for about $9,500..
Bluemalibu.. I hate to say it but you have been swept up in what I call the Honda hype of resale value. I went to trade my wifes 00 Accord in about 2 years ago and they would not give me or than 10,000 at a Honda dealer at that!! I paid just over 17K for the darn thing. So much for resale value... Get out on the net CRV's resale value is not as great as the dealership wanted you to believe, nor what Edmunds posts here..

bshel

I find that both vehicles are attractive, but in shopping for one, there are pros to the Escape (towing, etc) and the CR-V (too numerous to list). The V won out for my needs, and I'm very comfortable having chosen another Honda vehicle.

scape2-- I sold my 94 Accord EX to a dealer for $4000 three weeks ago. I found that to be a very good price. Miles were not low, although it was immaculate, and no problems with anything on it, no accidents etc. I can't imagine why that dealer wouldn't give you a good price for that 2000 Accord. I hope you shopped around and did get a reasonable sale.

smsuvundecided - those are great prices on the CRV. It must be the area because not all places are willing to part with them for that price. I had to work to negotiate a similar price on my manual trans V.

mikefm58

The notion of Honda's having a high resale value just got taken down a few notches in my book based on my experience last w/e trying to trade my wife's 2001 Accord LX sedan 4 cyl. with 22.7K miles on a new 2004 Toyota Highlander.
.
I did my homework using Edmunds, KBB, and Nadaguides websites and came up with a trade-in between 11K-12K and a selling price of a base Highlander of 21500K plus tax, tag & title. Identical Accords on autotrader.com are asking between 12700-13900. Over on Real World Trade-Ins Terry states I should expect 10-11K on a trade and I should be able to sell it myself for 11.5K-12.5K.
.
We go to the closest Toyota dealer, who does have a bad rep. for high pressure sales tactics and not giving any deals, have never heard a good story from someone who bought there.
.
We see a Highlander with no options with a sticker price in big numbers on the front for 21K. So we try it out and then try to work a deal. Even if they add some dealer fee, we'd have bought it.
.
But they offer us $8500K for a trade in, my eyes bulge out and my blood pressure shoots up. I'm silent for a few seconds then regain my composure. He gives us a song and dance that even though Hondas and Toyotas are great, they still do depreciate. Then I show him a couple of his used cars where he's asking almost MSRP of a new car. I tried my best, but he wouldn't budge, so we leave, vowing NEVER to step foot in that dealership again.
.
It boils down to resale value is only good if you can find a buyer and some dealerships are a royal pain. We're going to try out one or two other Toyota dealerships and if we can't get what we want, then we'll sell the Accord ourselves and buy something outright.

icvci

So I was on the phone with USAA (our insurance co.) yesterday. They offered a re-fi of 3.9 on our CR-V so I took it. The only costs are the $18 mailing fee and the $15 title fee from the State of Michigan. It saves me $8 a month. (And much more in interest costs in the end.)

Anyway, the girl on the phone looks at their value for our 2003 EX and she says "Wow, you guys have some great value in that CR-V." "You owe $15,000 and we have it valued at $25000."

I BOUGHT it for $22,000 and it now has 19,000 miles on it (18,800 trouble free). Of course, I'd never find a buyer that'd give me that but, it's nice to know those educated in valuing vehicles agree with my feeling that Hondas can't be beat.

BTW USAA allows anyone to join their credit union to get those re-fi rates. Look into it if you have a higher rate. www.usaa.com

bluemalibu2000

I do think the CRV resale value is pretty good, at least in our local area from my own experiences. I can't really speak for the Accord, but can say my 1999 Accord is valued around $3000 more in NADA and Kelleys Blue Book than my 2000 Malibu, with both having about the same sticker price. Of course any car depreciates like crazy no matter the make or model. Back to the Escape, I wish Honda and even GM would steal some styling cues from it, because Ford really did their homework there. Any Escape owner should be proud. That said I like the looks of my CRV too.

baggs32

So what you're telling us is that CR-V's APPRECIATE over time now?!!!!

A new loaded 2004 EX with zero miles stickers for just a tad over $23k. How can your 2003 with 19,000 (18,800 trouble free) miles on it be worth almost $2k more?

Wait, lemmee check...

Yes! I have heard it all now!

icvci

I have absolutely no idea. I swear to you that's what she told me though. Maybe it's like a fine wine.

Now all I have to do is wait for scape2s fine whine.

IT'S A CONSPIRACY...HONDA BIBLE...EXPLODING GLASS...

; )

baggs32

She must have ate the "special" brownies instead of the regular brownies for breakfast that morning.

varmint

Well... Resale value is just one variable in the cost of ownership equation.

http://www.intellichoice.com/best_value_2004/bovyTemplate1.cfm/te- - mplate/CompactUtility.cfm?CFID=202011&CFTOKEN=78E5BB0B-CCC9-7- - 5CC-01BA2273E7ACFD02

But I don't believe any of the consumer groups actually rank vehicles according to resale value. Residual value is another story. Residual value is pretty close to resale value, but still not quite the same. Here's the ALG site for that information (scroll down and click on the Compact SUV segment)

http://www.alg.com/news-information.asp?page=news_alg_rva

varmint

Just an FYI. CR has published their latest reliability rankings on their web page (restricted to subscribers). This is the first year they have recommended the Escape, now that its reliability rating falls within the "average range". Here are the highlights:

CR-V - 65% above the industry average.
RAV4 - 55%
Element - 50%
Forester - 30%
Liberty - 20%
Xterra - 19%
Sante Fe - 17%
Rodeo - 12%
Sorento - 12%
Wrangler - 0% (industry average)
Escape/Tribute - negative 5%
Tracker - neg 7%
Vitara/XL-7 - neg 7%
Aztek - neg 30%
Vue - neg 60%
Freelander - neg 148%

stevedebi

I believe she was telling you the maximum loan price on a new CR-V. They will loan 1.1 * MSRP, which is about 25,000.

But Hondas do hold value. I had a 2002 Odyssey, which was MSRP at 28500 in September of 2001, and retail resale value of 25300 in August of 2003. That's only about $3000 in two years...

scape2

Resale value is only good if you can find someone to pay the price! And these days with the internet there are not many uninformed buyers out there.. Highly doubt your going to get the inflated prices for Honda's.....
By the way, I did go to 3 Honda dealers and the highest trade in was about 9.5K! for a 2000 LX Accord! Same story of wholesale to wholesale or retail to retail. Also got a line of.. Because there are so many Accords out there now.. resale has come down!?

scape2

Finding folks around the net really questioning Edmunds and their TCO.
For instance.. an 04 Escape XLT V6 they say costs $22,714.. yet they are all over the paper costing under 20K. They also claim maintenance costs of over $5,500 over a 5 year period?, in the first year of ownership $716?
On my 01 Escape Edmunds claims over $1,552 in first year maintenance.. I paid no where near that in maintenace the first year. Maybe $200 for oil changes.. At the fifth year of ownership I am supposed to pay out over $6,000 dollars in maintenance?? on what? I am going to call it as I see it here Edmunds... explain these cost in more detail and let us know where you got these numbers...

bshel

scape2 - how long did you hammer them at the dealership? they aren't going to give you top trade-in value just out of the starting gate. For a 2000, sell it privately. Even if there truly are a lot of them out there, you aren't going to be happy with the dealership offer.

Edmunds probably takes an averagein calculating TCO. Sounds like there have been some problems with the Escape, some folks probably paid considerably more than those figures.

stever

Revealing the Hidden Costs of Car Ownership

About True Cost to Own

Steve, Host

stevedebi

Woah, the Escape True Cost of Ownership is 10,000 more than CR-V over 5 years!

CR-V - 32,370
Escape - 42,684

arizonajoe

From AutoWeek: "The new 2.3-liter, four-cylinder engine appears to be contributing to sales, says Chris Feuell, Ford SUV group marketing manager. The take rate on the Escape's old 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine was about 2 percent, but dealer orders for the new engine are coming in at more than 20 percent."

The whole article: http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=08933785

icvci

Resale is better for a Honda than similar domestic vehicles. Period. It's not some myth. It's not a conspiracy, it's fact.

You're upset about your bottom-of-the-line 00 LX Accord only fetching 9.5K? Why not look and see what an 00 Grand Prix, Intrepid, Malibu, Taurus or Sable would get you? LOL! If a dealer is offering 9.5K you could probably get, what? 10.5-11.5 on your own? How much did you buy it for 4 years ago? Gimme a break.

My mom traded in her 99 Catera in 2002, 50,000 miles, perfect condition, loaded bought for $32,000 trade in? $10,500.

Look at how poor a position you'd be in had you bought one of those vehicles. It's all relative.

Thank goodness it's almost time for you to cut your lawn.

icvci

Why would anyone want a lawn mower engine in their big bad Escape? Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

baggs32

Gotta have a 4cyl option for the ladies. I guess bigger IS better.

bshel

why do you say that about the ladies?

stevedebi

I saw a 2000 Lincoln Town Car sell for 9K last month (private seller). It had 72K miles. That car cost at least 38K new.

varmint

If we look hard enough, I think we can all find good and bad stories about resale. That's why I stick with the studies that collect data from large samples, across large regions.

As for the increase in sales of the new 4 banger model... amen. It only shows that having a *good* 4 cylinder is enough for many people.

icvci

I guess bigger IS better.

Based upon what?

And the electronic 4 wheel drive? I guess Honda had that right too?

baggs32

"And the electronic 4 wheel drive?"

I think varmint informed us a little ways back that the CR-V's system isn't electronic. varmint?

I for one like the system we have in the '02 with the switch. I feel it adds to the whole driving experience when you have to think about what to do next. That's a big reason why I prefer manual transmissions.

"Based upon what?"

Do I really have to explain this?!!

It's a joke which pays reference to the old saying involving a part of the male anatomy. And that the new 2.3L in the Escape is bigger than the old models 2.0L.

scape2

The TCO is bias against the Escape.. 10K MORE over 5 years over a CRV?? Doesn't this raise questions? I have had my Escape now for 4 years and have paid out nowhere near this in TCO..
As someone has said.. First you have to find someone willing to pay the inflated resale prices of Honda vehicles.. Not me, not anymore....

varmint

The RT4WD system used in the CR-V and Element is hydraulic, not electric.

VTM-4, the system from the Pilot and MDX, is an electric system. In fact, it's a bit similar to the one in the new Escape. Except that VTM-4 can distribute power from side to side (as well as front to back), and it retains a lock mode for lower speeds.

Scape - Take a look at the hidden costs described in the links provided earlier. You have not owned the vehicle for 5 years, nor have you suffered the loss of depreciation (you haven't sold it or crashed it). But the value is still gone.

bluemalibu2000

I won't knock the Ford Escape, because as I've said before it's a nice little SUV. I've liked it since it first came out and still do. However, there's no question the resale value of Japanese cars is significantly higher than their American counterparts. Just take a 2000 Malibu and compare it to the value of a 2000 Accord in NADA, Kelley's, Edmunds, or anyplace you want to look. Case in point. I just bought a Honda CR-V. For my 2000 Malibu with only 61,000 miles, they only offer $4500. $4500 on a $21,000 car. I took my 1999 Accord by with 57,000 miles, and they offer me $9,500 as a trade. $5,000 more on a second owner car that is one year older with only 4000 more miles. Japanese cars are simply engineered and built better than American cars. Anyone who doesn't believe that are only fooling themselves. Trust me, I've learned this lesson the expensive way. The resale value gap narrows the longer you hold your car of course, but you are sort of locked in to holding American cars forever unless you like taking a financial beating.

icvci

Nevermind, I was a bit dense yesterday. I knew what the statment referred to. I wasn't sure what context you were using it in. Somehow I was thinking you were talking about the V6. I apologize.

I didn't mean that the CR-V used an electronic system. I meant the Escape now uses an automatic system as does the CR-V.

zeen

Depreciation is a big cost. The Hondas don't depreciate like the American cars do. Therefore, I would never buy an American car unless I intended to keep it for at least 8 years. Much better to lease as long as you can get a good lease deal.

scape2

doesn't that figure into resale value. A 2000 Malibu also costs thousands less than a comparably equipped 2000 Accord at new. Look at the last months motor Trend. They compared the new Malibu against a new Accord. They were optioned the same, the Accord costs over $3,000 more than the Malibu.
Japanese cars better engineered and better built ... Its obvious to me you haven't been keeping up on the latest information about the build quality and reliability of American vehicles. Granted, they don't beat the Japanese, nor do they even match the Japanese, but they are not as far back as you may think. Go on over to MSN and look at their reliability reports of some American models, you will be surprised.

explorerx4

your malibu might have listed for 21k, but how much did you pay for it? my mom bought a new '03 last august for less than 14k(not including taxes, etc..) i know a lot as changed since 2000, but the car didn't change all that much by 2003.
a honda dealer isn't going to give you much for a chevy. i suspect a chevy dealer would have given more for the malibu, and less for the accord.
i am not trying to dispute the fact that people will pay more for a used honda.
my wife is now driving a new '04 escape, just to stay 'ot'.

smsuvundecided

So MSN reliability reports are going to be different? I'm trying to get rid of my Ford, even the Ford dealer won't give me anything for it. In fact, the Ford dealer offered me the lowest $$$ for my trade-in. I was nearly insulted. I flat out told them that they were trying to rip me off and went to another Ford dealer. The offered me the exact same amount. Bias against the Escape? Ford has a bias against their own vehicles being used as trade-ins.

stevedebi

It is not a bias. It is the fact that the new models have such high incentives that they drive down the cost of the older model used vehicles. Because it isn't that much more to pay for a new car, people don't buy as many used cars. Demand is down, inventory is up, and the value of the used car is in the sinkhole.